dmt freebase h2o recrystalization

[azar]

swim did a standard dmt freebase a/b with shelite/naptha. However; instead of warming the shelite and adding to the tea, the tea was boiled; put in an empty 4L shelite bottle cold shelite was added and shaken. The tea heated the shelite as they were mixed. The normal procedure follows.
The percipitant was red. Recrystalization with acetone yealded solid, slightly waxy xtals. This was disolved onto damiana and smoked. The effects could be kept for hours by regular tokes. Note no maio was added.
This was a good result however the smoke was more then harsh as it would leave tiny blisters on the throat if toked too hard and fast, especially when a crack pipe was used wich made this effect unavoidable. Which is bad.
First swim thought some caustic soda got into the shelite, however, caustic is highly insoluable in acetone, of which the product was rextaled in.
Caustic soda is highly soluable in water and dmt is aparently not. So this red prduct was put in a jar with water and boiled in the microwave and stirred. The water would not mix with the red substance however, the water would become very cloudy. This water was decanted into a jar. This process was repeated untill the water stopped getting cloudy.
Both products were put in a dry box to dry. The next day the water jar had largish, 12mm needle xtals at th bottom. And the water was clear and slightly yellow. The red substance was smoked. It was very very harsh, injured swims throat and worse of all, was inactive.
With a sepeate project, acetone was placed into the dry box. The water absorbed the acetone vapour and the xtals in it disolved in the solution. Swim then proceeded to be a very sad panda.
This solution was left to evapoate. It became a yellow scum at the bottom of the jar. This substance had a very weak dmt smell and smelt slightly of passion fruit.
This was, as usual, mixed with damiana and toked over the span of a few hours. It was strong, but not as strong as red spice, especially when it came to visuals, however, it was simply generally less effective then what swim was used to. After the first hour, the smoke became quite ineffective, however, swims general mood was kept quite high if swim continued to smoke.
What is this i hear about dmt not being soluabe in water? What happened when swim mixed it with water?

 

[azar]

pics

 

[dumbstruck]

DMT salts are soluble in water, while the freebase is not. I'm still trying to figure out the rest of your procedure to answer more.

 

[dumbstruck]

Ok. So to the water jar with 12 mm precipiated crystals, you added acetone, correct? You mixed the water and the acetone, and the crystals went into solution? You then let this water/acetone evaporate? I am confused. Surely if this is the case you would have just poured the water off the crystals and sampled them independently?

 

[azar]

exposing swims beautiful xtals to acetone vapour was not intentional. It was mentioned because it was observed that the xtals started out white and became yellow. Also to mention that whatever thewater extracted from the red spice was not only active, but felt exactly likedmt, but tolerance was built far quicker then with swims normal dirty red spice as well as being weaker for a given mass. Swim will reboil his yellow scum tonight.

To replicate what i did, put dmt into a suitable heat proof vessle, add a small amount of water, put in the microwave untill it starts to boil, stirr rapidly, remove cloudy water layer and put into another vessel, repeat till the water stops getting cloudy, allow water to sit for a day or 2, watch xtals grow.
Easy! Other then loss's thru vaporizing, will boiling damage the dmt?

 

[dumbstruck]

Ahh. So it is just a warm water wash essentially. As long as your DMT is freebase this should work without reducing too much of your potency.

As far as boiling water hurting DMT, I'm not sure. People get away boiling ayahuasca for a long time. My understanding is that freebase DMT vaporizes around 60-80 degrees Celsius, while the salted form has a much higher (unknown?) boiling/vaporization point. I believe that chacruna has DMT in a salted, but unknown form. So this would let it survive the boiling without too much vaporization. However if you are boiling a solution with DMT freebase, I would say it is likely to lose significant potency. But I do not know for sure.

I do not think salted DMT is in much danger of degradation if held near boiling for an hour or two. But I am speaking from intuition, not experience.

 

[azar]

However if you are boiling a solution with DMT freebase, I would say it is likely to lose significant potency. But I do not know for sure.

when you say loose potency, you mean the solution has less dmt in it, there for less potent, yea? Becease from my understanding, that pure dmt cant be strong or weak from batch to batch unless it contains impurities wich make it no longer pure dmt.
Thank for that

 

[azar]

stupid phone double posting twice..

 

[dumbstruck]

By lose potency I meant that some of the DMT would vaporize leaving you with less. But I was referring to using pure DMT not an impure material containing DMT so it probably came out confusing.

If you freebase a material containing DMT then it should precipitate out of water, since it is insoluble. If you were to then boil this, with the DMT still not in solution, then you would probably vaporize some and be left with less actual DMT. If you were to boil a material containing DMT that had not been freebased, or that had been re-salted, then your boiling would not vaporize much DMT and you will not lose any significant amount.

 

[azar]

hmmm.. i see... so when the hot water goes cloudy by dissolving the freebase in it, is it realy disolved? because it seems disolved, it doesnt settle out or anything, just makes the water cloudy.

what is the dmt doing if it's not disolving?

 

[endlessness]

Im sorry its kinda confusing to follow what you did..

I think its fine to experiment and after all, its your own stuff, but personally I recommend against people making all sorts of complicated proceedures if they dont know what they are doing. This whole 'I microwaved-this, I thought this happened so I added acetone but then this or that happened etc etc' kind of proceedures are very hard to follow and to give tips. Next time I suggest following the teks or rather knowing 'why' you are not following one before you do something different.

Freebase dmt is very poorly soluble in water, you can just try by yourself to put some dmt in water, it will remain undissolved. If you are talking about boiling water, it is possible more dmt dissolves, and/or more impurities/n-oxides, so it could be plenty of things happening there.. I dont know if microwaving can affect the whole thing in another way, but I really dont see why you want to add microwave to an already complicated story.

Also all this 'it was less strong or less harsh or less effective than red dmt' or these kind of comments are impossible to make use of because it might be self-suggestion, or a bunch of other factors related to method of smoking, efficiency of vaporization related to plant-oil content, set and setting, etc etc. The only person so far I've heard doing blind tests on different colored dmt could find no difference, and I would suspect it would be the same for most or all people.

I would suggest you get a vaporgenie and a torch lighter in any case, as it makes it all much smoother and effective to smoke

Laslty, regarding cleaning dmt, if you want to get rid ofpossible caustic soda traces, do a sodium carbonate wash (check the FAQ). If you want further clean up, recrystallize your stuff.

 

[Ayawasqero]

Yummy goodie.

 

[azar]

when i use words like harsh i'm refering to the how it injured the throat when smoked incorrectly, were as the other water recrystalised dmt was smooth and did not injure the throat, for the same smoking method.
As i said before:

To replicate what i did, put dmt into a suitable heat proof vessle, add a small amount of water, put in the microwave untill it starts to boil, stirr rapidly, remove cloudy water layer and put into another vessel, repeat till the water stops getting cloudy, allow water to sit for a day or 2, watch xtals grow.
Easy!

after redisolving in water today, it was noticed that the water only needs to be hot, but not boiling to disolve the dmt.
as said before, i knew the theory of what swim was doing, caustic soda is water soluable, dmt freebase is not ment to be, so mixing water with the dmt should absorb the caustic and leave the dmt. Instead it seams it left the red part and dissolved the dmt. The red substance left behind, was painful when inhaled too fast and injured the throat were as the xtals from the water did not.
as i said before, the acetone was not intentional, but was mentioned to state other observations that were made. Perhaps, for simplicities sake i should not have mentioned anything beyond the growing of the xtals in water. Sorry.
None the less, the water disolved and recrystalized something that, when smoked felt like dmt.
A/B extraction process's were done from the start and using shellite to freeze percip and yealded red dmt compound. I would assume doing the same process again would yeald the same product perhaps?
This forum is what is new to me, not this process.

 

[endlessness]

If all you want to do is get caustic soda, why not use room temperature water? Or why not redissolve the dmt in a non polar solvent and wash with sodium carb, as everybody does very effectively?

And if you want to experiment with hot water and dmt, why dont you heat up the water before, instead of microwaving with the dmt inside?

But yeah whatever it is you were doing, those def look like dmt crystals.

I dont know what shellite is, maybe your product is red because your shellite has a bit of aromatic hydrocarbons and thus pulling more plant oils and so on? If you want to clean it up to get pure dmt you could also recrystallize.

In any case, its still an interesting observation that dmt freebase can dissolve in boiling water while some impurities dont. Would be interesting if others also tried to do that, and see if it can be a good way to separate pure dmt freebase from plant oils and possibly 2-MTHBC, for those who dont have access to pure naphtha/hexane/heptane/equivalents, but only to a more polar compound like xylene etc...