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DMT-Fumarate insoluble in both water and acetone!

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I can't get this figured out. About 2/5ths of 700mg of my fumaric acid dissolves in 100ml acetone when supposedly the solubility is around 700mg per 100ml.


Then only 2/5ths of my DMT-fumarate dissolves in water when DMT-Fumarate solubility is supposedly 1g per 10ml and then the leftover doesn't dissolve in acetone either. I have repeated this 4 times now.

This is truly a mystery, perhaps it is that the psoriasis medication mono-ethyl-fumaric acid powder I am using has additives that they haven't stated on the bottle.
 
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I really thought info like that should of been on the wiki for buyers who see a bottle labeled (fumaric acid)...

Nevertheless, the DMT-mono-ethyl-Fumarate powder I have converted smells slightly of DMT but I had to use way more mono-ethyl fumaric acid to crash it out, (not 309mg per 1g). I put the white tablet powder into the acetone and it crashed out in a pale beige colour.

I can do a rewash on all I have to see how much DMT crossed over.
 
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I'd get some propper fumaric acid, evap all the acetone you had and all the water from your experiments and put all the product that came out together. Then I'd base it all with sodium carb and a bit of water, let it dry, pull with acetone again, and crash with FASA. (this time proper fumaric acid)


Also, I dont understand what you did, can you please describe it better? You put tablet powder in acetone? The acetone had your DMT dissolved in it? Or did you first have DMT dissolved in one acetone, then acetone with your monoethylfumarate dissolved, and then mixed both acetones?

I'm not sure what info you are missing in the wiki, I think its clear we are talking about fumaric acid, not another product. So you are now saying your produt is labelled as fumaric acid, or monoethyl fumarate?
 
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The dmt-monoethyl-fumarate product is insoluble in water and hence cannot do a sodium carb evap.

I mixed it both ways on seperate occasions and got the same result.

The product I had stated "with fumaric acid" and it is incredably popular on ebay so please endlessness make a warning for other potential victems.

I will dose myself with this stuff later and report if it works.
 
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What do you mean " you cannot do a sodium carb evap" ? It doesn't matter if its soluble in water or not, I didnt mean that you dissolve anything in water, I'm saying getting all of the powder together (whether its what dissolves in water, acetone or in nothing), and dry-tek it to re-FASA.

But you'll need to get fumaric acid, real one.

Also you still didn't describe exactly what you did. I'm not sure if you did FASA properly as it's normally done.

Can you please link to the product you are describing?
 
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I have done as you said master. Although, I don't see how it works as it won't be soluble in the FASA after I have evapped the sodium carb water off.



If it can fool me, it can fool someone else... and I'm not easily fooled!:shock: :p
 
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fathomlessness said:
I have done as you said master. Although, I don't see how it works as it won't be soluble in the FASA after I have evapped the sodium carb water off.



If it can fool me, it can fool someone else... and I'm not easily fooled!:shock: :p
Click to expand...

really?...Your shocked this was not a good product to use?
Come on man. in the description it labels several other ingredients & comes in a capsule.

Read more closely before buying next time. Pure fumaric acid is generally not sold in capsules like this. There are plenty of places that are inconspicuous that carry pure fumaric acid powder with no additives. Check around the net at shops that sell spices & herbs for cooking.
 
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You can find it in capsule like that :
0260.png

The thing is the price :shock:

And fathomlessness, when you say you're not easily fooled, i have some doubt cause when i read "with fumaric acid", my first thought is : what is with fumaric acid ?
When you read "with calcium" on a cereal box, do you think it's pure calcium in the box :lol: . No offence !
 
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endlessness said:
What do you mean " you cannot do a sodium carb evap" ? It doesn't matter if its soluble in water or not, I didnt mean that you dissolve anything in water, I'm saying getting all of the powder together (whether its what dissolves in water, acetone or in nothing), and dry-tek it to re-FASA.

But you'll need to get fumaric acid, real one.

Also you still didn't describe exactly what you did. I'm not sure if you did FASA properly as it's normally done.

Can you please link to the product you are describing?
Click to expand...

So I put all the powder together mixed with base as you said "base it all with sodium carb and a bit of water, let it dry, pull with acetone again, and crash with FASA. (this time proper fumaric acid)" and then let it dry.

Now, all I have is pure acetone ontop of unsaturated sodium carbonate crystals and dmt-mono-ethyl-fumarate powder. It is impossible to crash with FASA now because it is not saturated in the acetone solution...

What are you thonking withing this endlessness? Thonks though, I appreciate you helping me but are you sure you have this calculated correctly?

DansMaTete said:
When you read "with calcium" on a cereal box, do you think it's pure calcium in the box :lol: . No offence !
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
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Did you get propper fumaric acid as I advised was necessary before going through the plan, or are you still using your product which is not fumaric acid but a mix of Silicon Dioxide, Di Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Stearate and monoethyl fumarate (as clearly written in the supplier's ebay page you linked) ? In that case, it's obvious why it didn't work.

You really need to read things carefully before blaming other people for your problems.
 
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endlessness said:
Did you get propper fumaric acid as I advised was necessary before going through the plan, or are you still using your product which is not fumaric acid but a mix of Silicon Dioxide, Di Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Stearate and monoethyl fumarate (as clearly written in the supplier's ebay page you linked) ? In that case, it's obvious why it didn't work.

You really need to read things carefully before blaming other people for your problems.
Click to expand...

SnozzleBerry said:
No, it is impossible to crash out because you don't have fumaric acid!

Mono-ethyl-fumarate is not fumaric acid.
Click to expand...


Yes I have. You seem to be saying that by adding FASA to the unsaturated powder of sodium carbonate crystals and dmt-mono-ethyl fumarate powder which is completely insoluble in acetone, the fumaric acid will somehow react and dissolve all of that non-disolvable powder?

Thanks for the help, and thanks for being so considerate and tactful about my stupidity too:cry:
 
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No, I was saying that you need to dry tek your product and then pull with acetone and then FASA.

To make clearer:

Get all your product together, mix with sodium carbonate and a bit of water so that it is the consistency of a paste, mix well to let it react. Then let it dry completely, break up into powder once its dry, and pull with acetone. Prepare FASA, and then slowly add this FASA to your acetone that you used to pull from the drytek paste, and hopefully your alkaloids will crash out over the next few hours.

Can you please share the link of the new fumaric acid you got so we can double check if this time its really fumaric acid?
 
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Really, there seems to be a lot of confusion about this so let's sort this out good and proper right here and most appropriately... right now...

I got all my product together, I mixed with sodium carbonate and a bit of water to a consistancy of paste, I mixed well and let it react. I let it dry completely, I broke it up into a powder once it was dry. Now, here is the problem... I can not pull with acetone, because basicly the dmt-mono-ethyl-fumarate is insoluble in acetone.

So, even if I could somehow pull it with acetone (which I can't) I would have no way to collect the reacted DMT-Fumarate because it would sink down to the unreacted sodium carbonate paste/dmt-mono-ethyl-fumarate powder... I would have no way to seperate them... because sodium carbonate is soluble in water with the dmt-fumarate. So at best I would just have DMT-Fumarate with Sodium Carbonate Crystals.

Now, the way I see the FASA conversion is that the supposed pure DMT becomes soluble in acetone and you mix that acetone with FASA to precipitate DMT-Fumarate... Hence, if DMT is NOT soluble acetone (which it is), the conversion can not take place. Which is the case in my situation because I have dmt-mono-ethyl-fumarate which is NOT soluble in acetone... I repeat NOT soluble in acetone.

So, my problem is getting the insoluble dmt-mono-ethyl-fumarate into the acetone which it won't do. I know there is DMT in there because I used naptha on the sodium carb paste solution and evapped it and it left trace amounts.

Will lye dissolve this mysterious DMT-Mono-Ethyl-Fumarate? Anything else?

Here is the new fumaric acid (E297) food grade (c4h4o4):

 
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There will be no dmt-mono-ethyl-fumarate. The sodium carbonate will have reacted your acids to form other sodium salts. Yes they are insoluble in acetone, but freebase DMT will have dissolved in the acetone, you just wont see it because it is invisible when its dissolved in acetone. So dont be scared that a big part of the product doesnt dissolve in acetone, thats how its supposed to be.

Just add FASA to that acetone after decanting/filtering it away from the undissolved powder, and see if there is any clouds forming. If so, you are on the right path.

That being said, you never explained to me what you really did so I dont know if you lost your product in another step you never explained, and I neither know if all those impurities from your bad product you bought as supposedly fumaric acid will have screwed things up in an unrecoverable way. Either way the plan Im suggesting you is the best one imo to try to recover your goodies. Hopefully it works.
 
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It worked!

I converted 2g dmt-mono-ethyl-fumarate into 1.6 dmt-fumarate and only doing one pull from the dried sodium carb paste.

This leads me to believe that mono-ethyl-fumarate is usable for fumarate conversion but cannot be unconverted easily unless you do the drytek I did.

Thanks for all the help endlessness. :)
 
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