(DMT) If you could pick a solvent?

[spyfish]

Been trying to search the forum, and found some info but trying to understand this better.

So I have access to wide range of solvents trough a lab shop. I was planning to use pure heptane, so thats what I bought. But is that the ideal opion?

They also have various mixes of “naphta available.

What would be the disadvantages of Heptane? Do I understand this correctly:

Advantages:
- Less toxic.
- Less polar so pulls less fat and other stuff

Disadvantages
- Gets saturated quicker/holds less ? (I plan cold pulls)
- lower boiling point, needs allot longer evaporation time?

Am i completely wrong? Am i missing something. What solvent would you ideally pick for DMT extraction (if you had access) ? (MHRB)

Ive also ordered a magnetic stirrer.

 

[Koduckushi]

I can't speak on efficacy of one solvent over another as I only have the most surface level understanding needed to perform my extractions. What I can say is that I use both naptha and heptane(Bestine). Naptha for the initial extraction, and heptane for my re-x. Works wonders for me.

From what I've read, mhrb should give a pretty clean result. Anything equivalent to naptha should be fine as far as getting good pulls. I'd highly recommend doing an evaporation test with it to ensure it's a clean solvent. That not be necessary in your case based on your source, but I'm an overly cautious guy, and Harm reduction is always good.

I love my magnetic stirrer / hot plate but it does take a little getting used to. Now I prefer it to the crock pot that I initially learned how to extract with.

Sorry I don't have better answers, but smarter folks will soon chime in with more comprehensive knowledge than I.

 

[Transform]

The point is to understand the implementation of extraction techniques well enough such that your method can be adapted to practically any circumstances. There's a small handful of ways of shepherding the molecule out of the plant and into your personal alembic; all the rest is noise.

 

[acacian]

It really depends what you are after.. selectivity, toxicity level, evap time, ability to crystalize alkaloids, holding capacity etc? All things that various solvents will offer different advantages over others.

I guess you gotta clarify, what should the "perfect" solvent do in your eyes?

If purity is at the helm of priorities then I would say something like n-heptane, hexane or the right brand or naptha.

If holding capacity and low selectivity is important then something like DCM, toluene or xylene might be favored. DCM holds more DMT than pretty much every commonly available solvent and evaporates quickly and holds a wide spectrum of alkaloids.. depending on what you want, this could be seen as either an advantage or a disadvantage. For research into plant alkaloids, its a big + .. for someone wishing for a very pure DMT extract maybe not so much

Naptha requires heat in extraction which is something to consider. Other solvents will pull DMT at room temperature but might not allow freeze precipitation. Personally I see having to heat solvent as a drawback - and I also see high selectivity and low holding capacity as a drawback. So my definition of the ideal solvent probably differs greatly from yours, or even most other members here. My ideal solvent should pull a wide spectrum of alkaloids, extract efficiently at room temperature, evaporate quickly and have a high holding capacity so that less pulls are required. So DCM or toluene are my two picks.. DCM due to higher holding capacity and volatility.. I'm quite new to DCM and is taking a little figuring out. But I can already see why people favour it.

If low toxicity is important then something like limonene or some cooking oils would be preferable - but have their own imo frustrating drawbacks to consider.. you'll need to salt your alkaloids out and do a drytek if your wishing to avoid toxic solvents all together. So to me that is not ideal at all.. while others don't mind this.

Its pretty subjective really..

What is important to you in your solvent?

 

[spyfish]

What is important to you in your solvent?

Good question. Most important would be purity of end product. (Suitable for E-juice) Time I have, bark isn't too expensive for me. I cannot get powder atm, so Im grinding the ark myself. Using mix of powder and fibers. My previous extractions using Naptha has been quite yellow and sticky.

I'm trying to combine with successful mimosa tea, I boil the bark 4 times 4 hours with some vinegar to make sure I extract using 50ml per g bark. Filter and discard the bark, and reduce. So my starting point is basically a strong Ayahuasca analog tea. (my Mimosa tea is very strong at 3g bark equivalent doses. Unable to stand up)

Now I'm reading I should have at least 15ml / gram water when pulling.

I'm thinking to use heptane, and maybe go straight to a mini A/B after initial pulls. Perhaps also a initial defat before basifying. Always heard this isnt necessary for MHBR, but i always get allot of fat with the solvent. Even at low temps.

 

[acacian]

Mini A/B using n-heptane as solvent for final pull would be probably the best way to a pretty pure extract. Too much heat/acid could potentially affect the amount of 'impurity' present in your mimosa tea as well, leading to a less pure extract.

Gentle simmering, non aggressive use of acid (ph 4-5) and thorough fridge decant/filtering will go a long way in cleaning up your tea before you get to basifying and pulling the alkaloids. Its a good idea to spend a bit of time at this stage cleaning your solution before moving forward. That combined with back salting and re-extracting into fresh selective solvent should yield a clean product with MHRB

 

[acacian]

I boil the bark 4 times 4 hours with some vinegar to make sure I extract using 50ml per g bark. Filter and discard the bark, and reduce. So my starting point is basically a strong Ayahuasca analog tea. (my Mimosa tea is very strong at 3g bark equivalent doses. Unable to stand up)

Now I'm reading I should have at least 15ml / gram water when pulling.

Do you mean 50ml of vinegar per gram of bark? Or just 50ml liquid..? I wouldn't worry too much about precise water measurements for doing extractions. Obviously for oral brews its good to know how much DMT is in each ml of liquid but here its not so important. Use enough liquid that it is easy to strain off. If you don't use enough you'll find it a pain trying to squeeze all of the liquid out of your plant material. More diluted means less alkaloids becoming trapped in the plant matter when you have strained and exhausted your bark of liquid.. there's always a little bit you won't be able to strain out and if your tea is super concentrated you'll lose yield. Larger volume of liquid can make for a cleaner extract too.. find a good middle ground.

Don't worry too much about exact numbers. At the end of the day DMT is highly soluble in water as is. You don't need heaps of acid in your solution - just enough to form an the bond that will more readily dissolve in water.. in your case, using vinegar, it will be DMT acetate. Its really just to speed things up a little. Heat is doing most of the work in the boiling/simmering phase. Your tea - when the boils are combined and reduced, should be a nice workable amount. It shouldn't be thick and viscous. If using large amounts of bark (500g and above) you might not want to reduce such a large amount of liquid down to such a small amount. Keep the texture watery.. it will means less chance of emulsion.

 

[spyfish]

Do you mean 50ml of vinegar per gram of bark?

Thanks! I mean total liquid after all the boil washes before reducing. 50ml is the rule of thumb ive followed with aya brews, something I picked up from the old forums.ayahuasca.com (sadly down)

I'm already mid extraction, but planning next cook already. Have another 250g bark on the way. These next 6 weeks is the chance i have to extract, after than I wont be able to for a long time.

Do you think I should re-x this, or maybe even mini A/B? :

Selective scrape or re-x

First pull from 250g MHBR tea (100ml solvent) using n-heptane. Pulled for 3 hours at around 3 hours starting at around 40c. (2l erlenmeyer flask). Using a cheap magnetic stirrer at sub vortex. I’m now running long room temp pulls, hopefully less fat. The solvent was cloudy and yellow when i...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

In summery, what i did this time:
- 250g MHBR
- 4 times 4 hour boils, with bit of vinegar (Not measured, 100ml perhaps each "wash"), filtered hot trough cloth.
- Total 13-145 liter
- Reduced down to 1.5 liter, a bit of sludge at this point. Which I kept. Once reduced, I've found there is allot of light in the sludge precipitated. (Learned teh hard way woth aya brews).
- Based it with 110g dissolved Sodium hydroxide.
- Started pulling with around 200ml

I ran 3 hours with the magnetic stirrer, 100ml heptane. Started while slightly warm still, perhaps 40c. Once i siphoned it was cloudy and as you can see some fat came with. The yield though surprised me. Almost a gram in 1 pull.

I have almost 3 cold pulls collected now, close to 300ml that i will freeze overnight. Im curious of the outcome. suspect low but clean yield. Its cold here now, so ive pulled at around 15C room temp. I may have to heat it up a bit tomorrow in water-bath and re-pull.

What I am considering now for next attempt:

- Similar method to boil, but 3 x 3 hours. Perhaps filter better and decant before reducing as you suggested.
- Split 250g in two extractions at around 2000ml.
- Run a defat "pull" before basifying with the stirrer on warm or even hot "soup". Run till cold and discard the solvent.
- If my yield on the cold pull attempts im doing now is very low, do several shorter "warm" pulls.
- Then straight to mini A/B, or freeze and re-x?

Next week is warmer though, so maybe more cold pulls.