• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

DMT, Schizophrenia, Seeing spirits. Is it safe?

Migrated topic.
Fenix

Fenix

Rising Star
Ok so I have a couple questions here. Firstly let me start with the fact that I see spirits all the time, except when I'm on medication. The doctor had told me that Im either Schizophrenic or Drug induced psychosis. Seeing spirits started about 6 months after expirementing with DMT. So, part of me believes it was the DMT that opened this door to the spirit realm. Let me also state that I believe these spirits are real 100%. There are many proofs or reasons I believe these spirits to be real.

Second, I'm a researcher and am writing a book. It goes into science conciousness and many fasinating topics. For research purposeses I would like to expirement with DMT again. For the book and to expand my mind and conciousness / creativity. My question is... Is this safe to do with the fact that I have this condition or considered by some a gift. Is this safe?
 
Oh man. Is it safe? Only you can know. But caution is ALWAYS advised, especially for people in your shoes.

I am interested in hearing more about these spirits. What do they look like? How often do you see them? What are they doing? And what led you to believe they are 100% as real is a human being standing next to you?
 
If you have schizophrenia or drug induced psychosis as your doctor says, then no, it's not safe to consume psychedelics. It may further destabilize your mind and affect negatively your daily life (say for example the spirits get very "loud" , you start acting very weird as judged by others, can't mantain a normal conversation, can't find a job, put yourself in dangerous situations, whatever)

Regarding the spirits or more philosophical/existential questions, nobody really knows how the universe really works, neither your doctor, nor you, nor anybody in this forum or anybody else. We all have our theories. One thing is sure, though, that us humans are very prone to fooling ourselves into certain conclusions or beliefs. There is a multitude of experiments that have shown how we can delude ourselves (look up social psychology experiments, or just simple optical illusions as an example). So even if you are sure those spirits are real, I think it is healthy to constantly question your own conclusions. Be skeptical of even yourself, so as to prevent the possibility of going down a dangerous delusion that might or might not have some basis or partial basis in reality. I'm not saying you are wrong to think they are real, even if you said they are 100% not real, I'd also think the same thing applies, question yourself always!

But most of all, I'd question whether these spirits are having any negative impact in your life. Are you healthy? Are you exercising, eating well? Do you have productive hobbies, things that interest you and that you look forward to doing? Are you mantaining social relationships, can you pay your bills, are you ok with your family, etc etc? If any of those things are being affected, regardless of how "real" these spirits are, then it's important to put it in perspective and try to work out a way to get your life back in a healthier path.

Lastly, writing a book sounds good, but how necessary is it to smoke dmt? Can't you write the book with your previous experience in mind, plus all the thousands of trip reports here in the forum or around the internet, and all the other information you can find? Is it worth the risk?

Whatever you do decide, good luck!
 
I think the most important question is how you ended up on medication? Why did you go to a doctor? How exactly do you see spirits, how do they affect you? I know a few quite sane people who see spirits, and none of them went to see a doctor. So.. what made you decide you need help?

Schizophrenia is more than just 'seeing spirits'. But indeed if you are schizophrenic, then experimenting with psychedelics is crazy dangerous for you.
 
This thread has me thinking- is it possible that psychedelics can help facilitate being healed from schizophrenia? For example, could a very skilled facilitator (shaman type figure) help cure someone of this mental "disorder"? Is it possible that the reason psychedelics can manifest latent psychological disorders is because that is part of the journey the person needs to go on to be made whole? And that going further down the rabbit hole with a skilled facilitator is exactly what their brain needs to heal itself?

Does anyone know of any instances where people with schizophrenia have been healed with the aid of psychedelics, like it has been shown to help with anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc...?
 
Jupitor said:
This thread has me thinking- is it possible that psychedelics can help facilitate being healed from schizophrenia? For example, could a very skilled facilitator (shaman type figure) help cure someone of this mental "disorder"? Is it possible that the reason psychedelics can manifest latent psychological disorders is because that is part of the journey the person needs to go on to be made whole? And that going further down the rabbit hole with a skilled facilitator is exactly what their brain needs to heal itself?

Does anyone know of any instances where people with schizophrenia have been healed with the aid of psychedelics, like it has been shown to help with anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc...?
Click to expand...

Its an interesting hypothesis to consider, though I think the issue is that it's very risky, and it's not just a superficial risk.. What if it doesn't work out, and this person's life is totally screwed after that? For a therapist to take that responsibility is a huge decision.

Maybe for schizophrenics that are not responding well to other treatments, that are greatly suffering, that are maybe suicidal or posing risks to themselves or others, it would be a bit more reasonable to consider it as an option (sort of like the research related to treatment-resistent depression with psychedelics that has been successful so far).

Another issue to consider is how functional is the schizophrenic before deciding to try a psychedelic treatment, in the sense of, is there really a proper consent, a conscious choice? and if there isn't and someone is taking that decision for them (family members, psychiatrist), it obviously opens up to ethical issues.

In either case, I remember reading about some research in the 60's with schizophrenia and psychedelics by a specific researcher that seemed to have positive results (source 1, 2 ), but the question I wonder is, how many treatments were unsucessful and just not published, what are the real statistics?
 
Jupitor said:
This thread has me thinking- is it possible that psychedelics can help facilitate being healed from schizophrenia? For example, could a very skilled facilitator (shaman type figure) help cure someone of this mental "disorder"? Is it possible that the reason psychedelics can manifest latent psychological disorders is because that is part of the journey the person needs to go on to be made whole? And that going further down the rabbit hole with a skilled facilitator is exactly what their brain needs to heal itself?

Does anyone know of any instances where people with schizophrenia have been healed with the aid of psychedelics, like it has been shown to help with anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc...?
Click to expand...

Besides the references endlessness has listed, I'm pretty sure that stanislav groff has done some of this work as well. It's mentioned in one of his books. Will have to find it. Done with lsd.

Of course, the modern day psychedelic researchers always list psychotic disorders in their exclusion criteria for clinical studies. So at the moment it's not looked upon in a positive fashion.
 
I'm interested in hearing more about these spirits you are seeing O.P.

What do the spirits look like? Do they move around? Do they say anything? What are they typically doing? Why do you call them spirits?

Also, tell us about your book!

Sorry I have no advice as far as taking DMT or not. I don't know enough about schizophrenia to offer anything of value there. I would also think that it would depend on what kind of interactions you are having with these spirits.
 
DmnStr8 said:
I'm interested in hearing more about these spirits you are seeing O.P.

What do the spirits look like? Do they move around? Do they say anything? What are they typically doing? Why do you call them spirits?

Also, tell us about your book!

Sorry I have no advice as far as taking DMT or not. I don't know enough about schizophrenia to offer anything of value there. I would also think that it would depend on what kind of interactions you are having with these spirits.
Click to expand...


Yes, please elaborate on the spirits. No judgement here. We're genuinely curious.
 
Jupitor said:
I am interested in hearing more about these spirits. What do they look like? How often do you see them? What are they doing? And what led you to believe they are 100% as real is a human being standing next to you?
Click to expand...

To answer a few more question here. The spirits i see are the color of fumes off of gasaline. Faint. However, to answer another question made by someone else yes they do move around. Sometimes they will come up and poke me or grab amy shirt. Other times they would fly down my throat causing me to choke. and I would see other paranormal activity as well. Such as large masses of pure white cloud like spirits flying from one wall of my house to the other. The clear spirits (color of gasaline fumes, but a little more noticable) would walk around or fly and move objects in my house. For instance one time they flew through my tv and almost knocked it over.

After a while the spirits would follow me around where ever I went, even outside of my house, sometimes they wuold run down the street. After some time had passed i noticed a build up of spirits energy entered my body and was in my brain. I could litterally reach in my nose and pull pieces of spirit out of my nose and brain. I would take the pieces and flick them outside and I would see the spirit pieces fly around the sky.

The reason I believe these spirits are real is because they would move things in my house such as said tv. Hallucination could not do that. If it were hallucination they would not be able to move objects. I also have other reasons to believe they are real but I dont want to get into a huge topic.

Someone else mentioned about a book that I am writing., you could find the first few chapters to my book here: https://writersbeat.com/based-on-true-events-drugs-philosophy-awakening-go-t62849.html
 
Sounds pretty far out man!

Ever talk to a doctor about this? Might be something worth considering before trying any more psychedelics. Sounds like your life is psychedelic enough on it's own right now. Maybe get on an even keel before you add to your pile?

Glimpsed at your writing. Sounds like you have an outlet right there. Perhaps you could write about some of the things that are happening in your life right now. Call it gonzo book writing...
Just a suggestion.
 
Im going to say something controversial to what most forum members here would suggest, but only because of my first hand experience with a friend of mine.

She has paranoid scizophrenia and like you she was curious about DMT. Nothing made it go away for her, not alcohol, benzos, antipsychotics. The only diminished it.

Rather than amplifying her psychosis, DMT diminished it and gave her a clear state of mind (although she had a sub-breakthrough dose). Granted her mental issues could be different to yours by way of neurological areas in the brain. Hers would be wernike/brocas dominant, whereas yours might be visual/spatiotemporal dominant. From what is known about DMT from brain scans it isnt suprising that her mental chitter chatter went away (what with the deactivation of parts of the frontal lobe and the DMN). However this may be entirely different from you being that these are visual hallucinations not auditory.

Which brings me to my next point. If you are convinced that these spirits can move about things in reality then confirm it with other members of society (friends or family). If only you can see them moving objects, it is highly likely it is a delusion. For why would they only target you to see them move objects and not anyone else? Wouldn't that be kind of anthropocentric/self-aggrandizing? What makes you so special? To be honest, this really sounds like psychosis.

I know sometimes that can be hard to come to terms with because it is scary and it is far easier for the mind to convince itself it is real rather than to admit you are losing your marbles.

I suppose what characteristic makes me differentiate between psychosis and other-wordly truth/merit is the level of complexity of information transfered. Seeing plumes of transparent gas floating around bumping in to things and trying to choke you isn't quite the same as a self transforming machine elf transmuting human meaning for you to understand the structure of reality. One is far more likely to convince me that it warrants some constitution of intelligence outside of what i can ordinarily cook up with my unconscious mind like a person with schizophrenia would.

My answer is no. I would find out the credibility of these spirits and if there is none, see a doctor, take some anti-psychotics for a BRIEF time to see if they go away and the re-asses things then.
 
Fenix said:
Jupitor said:
I am interested in hearing more about these spirits. What do they look like? How often do you see them? What are they doing? And what led you to believe they are 100% as real is a human being standing next to you?
Click to expand...

To answer a few more question here. The spirits i see are the color of fumes off of gasaline. Faint. However, to answer another question made by someone else yes they do move around. Sometimes they will come up and poke me or grab amy shirt. Other times they would fly down my throat causing me to choke. and I would see other paranormal activity as well. Such as large masses of pure white cloud like spirits flying from one wall of my house to the other. The clear spirits (color of gasaline fumes, but a little more noticable) would walk around or fly and move objects in my house. For instance one time they flew through my tv and almost knocked it over.

After a while the spirits would follow me around where ever I went, even outside of my house, sometimes they wuold run down the street. After some time had passed i noticed a build up of spirits energy entered my body and was in my brain. I could litterally reach in my nose and pull pieces of spirit out of my nose and brain. I would take the pieces and flick them outside and I would see the spirit pieces fly around the sky.

The reason I believe these spirits are real is because they would move things in my house such as said tv. Hallucination could not do that. If it were hallucination they would not be able to move objects. I also have other reasons to believe they are real but I dont want to get into a huge topic.

Someone else mentioned about a book that I am writing., you could find the first few chapters to my book here: https://writersbeat.com/based-on-true-events-drugs-philosophy-awakening-go-t62849.html
Click to expand...

Was there an independent observer watching as those house objects moved or a video of it? If not, how do you know that part wasn't another trick of your consciousness?

I hope this doesn't sound insulting, I don't mean to deny your experience, I know when we perceive things with our senses they seem very real but as mentioned, I think it's very important to always question everything.

Some of the things you said are pretty neutral but it seems it might be affecting you negatively (spirits choking you, for example ) , therefore I think it's important to look for a way to help improve your current situation.

Lastly, you asked again if its "the same to do dmt again"(I suppose you mean "safe" ?) .. Well you've had many answers already, and I'll stick with my "no", it can worsen your negative symptoms.
 
Yea that sounds vaguely like psychosis. I wouldn't recommend you to experiment further. I'm not a mental health professional, and even if I was it would be horrible practice to diagnose over the Internet, but I think it's safe enough to tentatively say that I wouldn't question your doctor after hearing this information.

Things you should consider:

* You say the TV was 'almost' knocked down. Well, that means something very important: The TV wasn't knocked down.

* You only see the 'spirits' when you're not on medication. When on medication, the weird poltergeist phenomena of objects moving doesn't happen. I'd say that's clear proof that there is no actual effect of these 'spirits' on consensus reality.

* You did end up at a doctor, getting prescription antipsychotics. You didn't answer my question how that came to be, but I imagine it was because you couldn't take it anymore, and/or you thought you might be having a psychotic episode... Well... you were probably right.


Based on all this, my recommendation is not to take any DMT, and to focus outward. Stop introverting and 'exploring', much of this 'exploration' would be just mapping the labyrinth inside your head. The point is to get out of the labyrinth. Ground yourself. Get in touch with nature, be outdoors a lot, wander, talk to people.
 
Ok so basically your still trying to say these spirits are not real / are hallucinations. You say if no one else saw things move they're probably hallucination. Well no one was around on the rare case they had moved something for they're not able to do it often.. however, there is something else that's proof I just didn't want to go into it but I will now for the sake of arguing.

Ok so my brother was in an accident and is now paralyzed and can hardly talk. He's almost brain dead. He lives with me. On occasion he would start saying oww like ouch all the time. Then after I started seeing these apirits I would notice them standing in a corner or hovering above him and poke him. Every time they poked him they would have to move / lean toward a little bit. Now the thing is every time they poked him he would say oww or ouch. Now the fact they had to move forward to poke him I'd be able to predict that he would say oww or ouch before he did so. So my mother was there with me and I would point to him right before he said oww or ouch showing her that I could predict it thanks to me being able to see the spirits leaning in toward him or moving forward. Now you might come back and say well what if he was just saying ow because he saw you pointing thus throwing the experiment off. Well here's the thing. Since he is nearly brain dead he doesn't react to anything.

Also you say that if the medication helps the is proof that they are indeed hallucination. Not so. I actually talked to my doctor about this and she is someone that believes in the spirit realm. She told me that it could just be affecting my brain in ways that I can no longer make me as sensitive to the spirit realm.

Another thing is if I were hallucinating why do I only see spirits or paranormal activity and not Random hallucinations of monsters or such. I only see spirits nothing else!

But but before this started with me I would have never believed it amd would have thought someone saying these things were crazy. And to answer your question I went to the doctor because I couldn't take it anymore.
 
Back
Top Bottom