DMT Spirit Possession?

[ChrisDoza]

A buddy of mine blasted off into hyperspace last night for the first time, but what had happened was one of the weirdest things ive ever seen. He took .1 after smoking some syrian rue. As he inhaled the third hit, he laid flat on his back and begin moaning with his mouth and eyes wide open, he kept getting louder and louder until he was screaming at the top of his lungs. Then he began to convulse and throw his arms around like he was fighting someone. It looked as if he was being possessed by a spirit or something. He wouldnt stop freaking out and he kept yelling until he placed his face in the grass and laid on his stomache. With a mouthfull of dirt and grass he just sat there unresponsive to anything we were saying to him. After about 5 minutes of spazzing out and making odd sounds, he calmed down and quietly experienced the rest of his trip. When he came back to reality, he had no reccollection about his freak out. He was baffled at what we were telling him and didnt believe that he had flipped out on us. His memory was very poor when it came to talking about what he experienced in his trip too. If anyone knows why this happened or has anything to say about it please feel free to comment.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

Do you know if he takes an medications regularly or has a prescription for anything?

What were the dosages involved?

His not having a memory of it might indicate some psychological trauma from the experience or possibly a loss of consciousness.

What memories does he have?

 

[ChrisDoza]

No he does not. I was thinking it was a seizure at first, but the qualities werent the same as someone having a seizure.

 

[ChrisDoza]

He doesnt remember anythinf specific about the trip, no visuals or entities or anything. He did mention hearing that high pitch frequency that sometimes occurs during a dmt trip, but thats about it. Id say he took a rather small dose, im not sure about the exact measurement, but it was a good amounnt for a first time user.

 

[olympus mon]

wow thats intense and must have freaked you all out a bit. ive never seen this before but have heard of people screaming and yelling. the convulsions are what would concern me the most.

did he feel his trip was a positive experience? what is his past history with plant medicines and psychedelics?

keep in mind that an maoi intensifies dmt drastically!!! he may have just been overloaded. i would not advise new dmt users to be using an maoi at the same time.

 

[Global]

I don't think it sounds like spirit possession. You see stories more like these with 5-MeO DMT, but from lots of stories I've heard, the tripper can be in a state of bliss/terror, but completely unaware of his body. His consciousness may be peacefully floating off somewhere, while his body is unknowingly to him, thrashing around. How much DMT did he smoke in how many tokes?

 

[gibran2]

...He took .1 after smoking some syrian rue.

...Then he began to convulse and throw his arms around like he was fighting someone. It looked as if he was being possessed by a spirit or something. He wouldnt stop freaking out and he kept yelling until he placed his face in the grass and laid on his stomache. With a mouthfull of dirt and grass he just sat there unresponsive to anything we were saying to him.

...If anyone knows why this happened or has anything to say about it please feel free to comment.

100mg is a huge dose to vaporize, especially after vaporizing harmalas. 25mg would have been a much more reasonable amount.

 

[fourthripley]

Does .1 mean 10 mg or 100 mg? I have noticed that smoked harmalas can treble the intensity of the effects of smoked DMT as Gracie and Zarcov observed. Sounds like your freind just got a stronger dose than expected, nothing to worry about.

 

[ChrisDoza]

Yeah it was definitely frightening to watch. We had done a number of LSD and Psilocybin trips together in the past, and this was the first time i had ever seen anyone act like this on DMT. The outcome of his trip seemed positive, he was blown away by the abstract nature of the trip and was definitely humbled by the experience. But he still is unable to explain what was going on in the trip while his physical body was freaking out.

 

[ChrisDoza]

He smoked about 10-20mg of dmt in 3 tokes out of a sherlock vaporizor. We just eyeballed the dose so im not 100% sure about the amount.

 

[olympus mon]

yea just sounds like way too much dmt especially with the rue. be careful about dosing new people 100mg is far too much even without the maoi.
this fella is trusting you to help him, please be careful with this stuff as you know how powerful it is. you would never want to to harm by incorrect dosing.

 

[ChrisDoza]

Yeah now that i have seen what can happen, im going to make sure to use precise dosing from now on.

 

[Global]

As I mentioned above, I've only heard of this happening by and far with 5-MeO, and usually a result of an "overdose," but I've personally seen such reactions in the case of salvia on a handful of occasions, and have been in that state myself because of salvia. It's created what I've termed "Sally D Zombies" cause the person can be moving all around and fully conscious...somewhere, but the driver has left the wheel of a moving vehicle.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

I've seen something like this before in a specific individual, pretty consistently too, involving MHRB spice. Including blacking out, some thrashing about etc, coming back in a few minutes and not remembering much of anything...

It clearly wasn't the dose or the batch, nobody else reacted like that with the same doses (50mg on a shared bowl of herb) , but he did 3 out of 3 times over several weeks and was not allowed to partake of the spice anymore.

that had no harmala alkaloids involved, just DMT and cannabis,
it wasn't clear what was happening, but he was prescribed and taking klonopin during the entire time

I've seen similar and strange reactions happen with fungi in a minority of people
DMT is clearly not for everybody, a minority of people can have an adverse reaction to pretty much anything...

if your friend tries it again, may he proceed slowly and with caution

 

[ChrisDoza]

Yeah thats exactly what seemed to happen to my friend too. We all took the same amount that he did and we were fine. Hes anxious to try it again, but im kinda hesitant to let him do it because of what happened the first time.

 

[Global]

It clearly wasn't the dose or the batch, nobody else reacted like that with the same doses (50mg on a shared bowl of herb) , but he did 3 out of 3 times over several weeks and was not allowed to partake of the spice anymore.

I'm curious to know at what point in the order he went if you could remember. It's possible that everyone else got a moderate hit, but if a lot of the DMT were to get soaked in the herb, and then he accidentally manages a monster rip, he could be getting a lot more than everyone else. I suppose it is a bit unlikely in this case being that he consistently couldn't handle it. If he were ever to partake again though, I would cut back the dosage to 20mg so he can at least enjoy the low-level non-amnesic effects.

 

[jamie]

sounds like a normal super high dose trip to me. Give them less next time. "Eyeballing" 10-20mg means nothing to me, your eyeballs are not scales. It could have looked like 20mg and been 50mg for all you know. I have also seen this happen. I watched a girl yell for help once in my living room and crawling around speaking some middle eastern language. I think her bf and friend took less than her and then she got a huge hit of DMT that had melted farther down into the bowl.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

I'm curious to know at what point in the order he went if you could remember. It's possible that everyone else got a moderate hit, but if a lot of the DMT were to get soaked in the herb, and then he accidentally manages a monster rip, he could be getting a lot more than everyone else. I suppose it is a bit unlikely in this case being that he consistently couldn't handle it. If he were ever to partake again though, I would cut back the dosage to 20mg so he can at least enjoy the low-level non-amnesic effects.

I don't recall the order, but it averaged something like 5 people and it went around a couple of times.

Once i saw someone have a psychotic reaction to cannabis, it triggered his multiple personality disorder... you would not believe it unless you were there.

I did hear about someone doing the punching and flailing thing with a high dose, they said there was stuff right in their face and they felt threatened and tried to push it away, but the guy remembered all of it and loved it, but he was flailing about too, but nothing like that other guy who seemed to black out and thrash about like a seizure, i mean this guy would be unconscious on the floor for 2-3 minutes after the flailing episode... people were scared and worried, checked his breath and pulse while he was out, seemed to be fine. Woke up and said "what happened"? Had no clue... maybe he was epileptic and it triggered it?

I believe he had tried some very low doses and reported not feeling anything... I don't think he was sensitive to it in the sense that a little bit went further... who knows what was in his system. He was an unusual character in every sense of the term though.

the funny part was that the timeframe of the so called blackout seizure fit into the average window of activity for the ol'NN... seriously though, he was knocked out by it like it was a crazy sedative, and i too have read reports of 5meo doing that to some people, some claim that it is dose dependent, but that isn't supported by what i have seen, some people can take high doses of 5meo and be totally fine, no loss of consciousness etc.

There are reports out there of fungi, and 5meo doing similar things, people passing out, often waking up with vomit on them... often bruised from flailing around. Very rare cases, usually involving high doses... but then there are reports of people taking massive doses of fungi and having no such thing occur.

When you consider how proteins fold in novel ways and how SNP's can affect enzyme shapes, it makes sense that some peoples synapses and receptors are unusual enough to allow abnormal and sometimes adverse side effects to manifest, not just with psychedelic tryptamines but with pretty much any medication. Often side effect statistics for pharmaceutical medications reflect just this, biological variation in regards to neurophysiology. In some people things like fungi and DMT do not act as psychedelics at all for just this reason, we are not all built the same.

Eyeballing doses does not work well, I totally agree.

 

[Global]

the funny part was that the timeframe of the so called blackout seizure fit into the average window of activity for the ol'NN... seriously though, he was knocked out by it like it was a crazy sedative, and i too have read reports of 5meo doing that to some people, some claim that it is dose dependent, but that isn't supported by what i have seen, some people can take high doses of 5meo and be totally fine, no loss of consciousness etc.

There are reports out there of fungi, and 5meo doing similar things, people passing out, often waking up with vomit on them... often bruised from flailing around. Very rare cases, usually involving high doses... but then there are reports of people taking massive doses of fungi and having no such thing occur.

When you consider how proteins fold in novel ways and how SNP's can affect enzyme shapes, it makes sense that some peoples synapses and receptors are unusual enough to allow abnormal and sometimes adverse side effects to manifest, not just with psychedelic tryptamines but with pretty much any medication. Often side effect statistics for pharmaceutical medications reflect just this, biological variation in regards to neurophysiology. In some people things like fungi and DMT do not act as psychedelics at all for just this reason, we are not all built the same.

The problem is that it's hard to say that it's not dose dependent just because there are some people who can take high doses of 5-MeO and be perfectly fine. There are two main complications that I can tell. One is that these people who are taking such high doses could have poor smoking technique/improper smoking device. Another thing is that especially in the cases of DMT and 5-MeO DMT, the same exact dose from the same batch with the same exact person vaping the substance the same exact way can have completely different experiences from the same doses. Some experiences that are so unlike others from the same dose that it could make you think it was a different drug altogether (even though it obviously isn't). Just because someone for example gets away a five times vaping 30mg DMT with mild effects, doesn't mean that on that sixth time he won't have a full breakthrough interacting with deities. There's also the issue of not cleaning the pipe (and this is a particular problem with pipes that you can't see through because you have no idea how much DMT-condensate could be building up and not being vaporized), but one of those days a large heap of DMT that's been building up for a while can just all vaporize in a lungful into one person's lungs and that person gets 70mg even though he only thought he was bargaining with 30mg.

 

[tele]

sounds like a normal super high dose trip to me. Give them less next time. "Eyeballing" 10-20mg means nothing to me, your eyeballs are not scales. It could have looked like 20mg and been 50mg for all you know. I have also seen this happen. I watched a girl yell for help once in my living room and crawling around speaking some middle eastern language.

HORRIBLE:lol:

No scales, no D. That's advice I can give for people who are not experienced with it. I would not blast without measuring the dose, if going for a breakthrough.(over 23mg dose from GVG)