DMT Tek Concerns (Acacia confusa)

[Legit]

Swim has been looking at DMT teks on and off for the past year or so, and has come to many different conclusions as to what the best method is. He has never extracted DMT before, but is somewhat familiar with the science behind it. He is not a chemist by any means, but has a basic understanding of chemistry.

Anyway, swim's current favorite is Marsofold's tek, due to the simplicity of it. Most teks assume at least some level of chemistry knowledge is present in the readers, and tend to trail off on subjects swim has no experience with. This confuses swim, as he likes to keep things simple and clear, with well-defined boundaries between steps.

Also, swim does not have access to MHRB! He can only get Acacia confusa, which swim thinks would be harder to extract from, due to all the NMT and oils, fats, etc.

Swim would like to know if Marsofold's tek would work on A. confusa, with 31.5% HCl (How can he dilute this correctly?) used as the acid. He would also like to know a better method for the wash, as most people seem to agree that ammonia washing isn't effective.

Swim isn't in the position to go about doing this right away, and probably won't be for at least a month or so, maybe longer. But he would still like to know! :thumb_up:

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

Most teks assume at least some level of chemistry knowledge is present in the readers, and tend to trail off on subjects swim has no experience with. This confuses swim, as he likes to keep things simple and clear, with well-defined boundaries between steps.

i humbly disagree, i had no chemistry knowledge prior to coming here, and after reading the tek all the way through a good three times, i was able to successfully extract with a 2% yield.

patience is the best tool.. all the info you need is already here. you just got to find it all, and lay it all out before you in whatever manner is most cohesive to you..

as far as what acid you use, i don't imagine it matters all that much. you basically just want to break down the cells and pull the alkaloids into the water. i am pretty sure all salts (including hcl) are water soluble, if i were you i would wait for someone else to confirm that.

there are lots of methods for washing and re-xing all over the wiki and forums...

 

[Legit]

I know the info is here, it's just all scattered out and applies to a variety of different plants besides A. confusa. I've been trying to organize it all, but it tends to leave me irritated and wondering whether or not it will all work on A. confusa the way it works for MHRB, for example. As I said, swim likes to keep things simple and clear.

The main thing is that most of the information is geared towards other plants, and I don't know if that information will apply to A. confusa in the exact same way. I'm pretty sure that if swim tried extracting A. confusa with Marsofold's tek, the end result would be a brownish goo. A mix of N,N DMT, NMT, and various fats, oils, etc. I could be wrong though.

As for washing and re-xing, I agree that I could have done more research... And I will. Though I'm sure the NMT and stuff plays a role here, too.

I just want to be absolutely sure I have it down is all, sorry if I'm annoying you guys or anything.

EDIT: Oh, and the HCl is personal preference, really. Swim might be over-complicating it, he was just under the impression that it crystallizes better. (Might just be mescaline, swim isn't exactly sure where this idea came from.)

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

I know the info is here, it's just all scattered out and applies to a variety of different plants besides A. confusa. I've been trying to organize it all, but it tends to leave me irritated and wondering whether or not it will all work on A. confusa the way it works for MHRB, for example. As I said, swim likes to keep things simple and clear.

its well worth the effort to google your way through the nexus. also alkaloid extractions are alkaloid extractions (for the most part).

The main thing is that most of the information is geared towards other plants

one could argue the tek i used was geared towards mimosa, but i could just as easily use it on acacia or phalaris.

I'm pretty sure that if swim tried extracting A. confusa with Marsofold's tek, the end result would be a brownish goo. A mix of N,N DMT, NMT, and various fats, oils, etc. I could be wrong though.

its hard to guess color in advance, if you are so concerned about fats you can do a de-fat (pull with solvent after acidifying, but before basing. then after you base the pulls will be more pure), but i am not sure if de-fats are even necessary for confusa (i am not really familiar with acacia)

As for washing and re-xing, I agree that I could have done more research... And I will. Though I'm sure the NMT and stuff plays a role here, too.

i am pretty sure the tek would be the same for a variety of alkaloids.

Oh, and the HCl is personal preference, really. Swim might be over-complicating it, he was just under the impression that it crystallizes better. (Might just be mescaline, swim isn't exactly sure where this idea came from.)

i think it has more to do with the purity of the acid rather than the type of acid. household vinegar has oils and contaminants. if you got glacial acetic and diluted it it would be essentially the same as hcl (to my knowledge)

 

[Legit]

I guess the only way to know for sure is to actually do it. Still, it bugs me to do something like this without knowing what to expect beforehand. As long as I do everything right, the worst that could happen is having impure crystals. (If it does crystallize.)

I'd still like to know how to dilute the HCl to the correct pH. I don't have a pH meter or papers, so something like "xx ml of HCl to xx ml water" would be good enough for me. I suppose vinegar would work if no one can answer this, but vinegar is heavily diluted and it probably contains other things, like you said.

I'm just OCD about my shit, haha. The thought of impure crystals (or somewhat pure powder) bothers me to no end! But maybe I shouldn't stress so much over a first run...

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

I guess the only way to know for sure is to actually do it. Still, it bugs me to do something like this without knowing what to expect beforehand. As long as I do everything right, the worst that could happen is having impure crystals. (If it does crystallize.)

you don't know what to expect?
expect a mixture of alkaloids consisting primarily of DMT and NMT. feel better now? no? well alright then.

I'd still like to know how to dilute the HCl to the correct pH. I don't have a pH meter or papers, so something like "xx ml of HCl to xx ml water" would be good enough for me. I suppose vinegar would work if no one can answer this, but vinegar is heavily diluted and it probably contains other things, like you said.

i wouldn't worry about it much, a 5% dilution should be fine (95% water 5% hcl), you don't need to be too exact in this step, you just to get all the DMT out of the plant cells (but not too much acid, or you will have to add a lot of base).

I'm just OCD about my shit, haha. The thought of impure crystals (or somewhat pure powder) bothers me to no end!

pure in what regards? it will be pure enough to ingest if you follow the tek properly.. or do you mean you only want DMT and no other alkaloids?
if so i wouldn't worry about it, many people prefer their DMT mixed with NMT, and personally i prefer jim-jam to pure crystal spice (and i'm not the only one).

i also wouldn't worry too much about whether or not it crystallizes.

 

[Legit]

Meh, it doesn't matter too much I guess. I just like the idea of having pure crystals. Maybe after I grow a variety of my own plants I'll be able to perfect it. It seems a lot of people prefer the impure crystals (or non-crystals) anyway, so I'll just have to try them for myself.

But, out of curiosity, how would one go about separating the DMT/NMT mix?

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

But, out of curiosity, how would one go about separating the DMT/NMT mix?

we are still working on that actually.. there are a couple threads on it, but no real methodology has been developed as of yet...

 

[Legit]

Ah, I was hoping you wouldn't say that. That has been my observation too, but I was hoping someone more familiar with the forum knew of a definite way of doing it. So I guess that's about all I needed to know.

Thanks for the help, and I'll be sure to let you guys know if I have success or not, whenever it is that I'm in a position to do this. In the meantime I'll continue my research.

EDIT: This: If you're having trouble getting crystals from acrb, use this tek (thick-light) - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus looks very promising. I don't know how I missed that, but... I figured I'd just add that here, for those who are interested. If anyone plans on doing this, or has already done it and had good results, please let me know!

 

[Swinjin]

What does your ACRB extract look like? - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[wearepeople]

Also, Cybs Hybrid ATB 'Salt' Tek...Designed for newbies. - STB - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Different trek but describes a salting step that has been working with acacia confusa.


And here's another good one: Acacia Extraction Workspace - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Legit]

That's good to see Swinjin, thanks for that. That's pretty much what I'm aiming for. Did you follow thick-light's tek to the letter, or did you do it slightly differently?

wearepeople, I'll have to give those a read. They look like they have some quality info.

 

[wearepeople]

I thing using CYB's tek would be wonderful.

It would be really useful information if someone followed it exactly and only changed one variable: use Acacia confusa instead of MHRB.

Lots of people are coming here for acacia confusa extraction help.

Will acacia confusa be the next MHRB? Will it get banned soon? Probably.

Start growing your own, see the links in my signature below.

 

[Legit]

Yeah, A. confusa will most likely be banned eventually, sadly. Regardless of that, I hope to grow a good number of A. acuminata and obtusifolia plants this year, along with Phalaris aquatica and brachystachys. I don't mean to get off-topic, but I like the idea of extracting from petioles/leaves instead of bark. It causes less harm to the plant, which I wholly approve of. And Phalaris grows quickly, so that's always good.

And I'd love to do CYB's tek if it means helping my fellow Nexians out, but I'm on a limited budget at the moment and don't want to risk losing my spice, or any other possibly negative result. Could anyone else try this, perhaps?

EDIT: Actually, I don't see any reason CYB's tek wouldn't work for this. I may just have to try it. But if I do, it'll probably be on a second extraction.

 

[deadhor5]

I thing using CYB's tek would be wonderful.

It would be really useful information if someone followed it exactly and only changed one variable: use Acacia confusa instead of MHRB.

Lots of people are coming here for acacia confusa extraction help.

Will acacia confusa be the next MHRB? Will it get banned soon? Probably.

Start growing your own, see the links in my signature below.

I followed cybs tek essentially to a T, however it was only my second extraction so i made some rookie mistakes in the drying process.... My first two pulls resulted in .8 of fluffy pure white crystals which i thought were totally dry, however after a little heat and transportation it all melted into a waxy grey sludge in the container i was using.... i tried to freeze and dry out the last of the naphtha hiding in that sludge, but im sure i lost some crystals in the process, my final weight once it was 98% dry was 400mg. the second two pulls resulted in 300 mg, and the final two pulls resulted in 45 mg.making 745 mg total, out of 45 gs of root bark. the only deviations i made to the tek was a slightly lesser amount of root bark due to funneling errors, 30 ml less water was added tot he solution because my bottle was just short of 750 ml, and instead of drying each pull individually i combined them into sets of two, the final two pulls were preformed a day after the first 4. I plan to post a detailed report on my experience soon, and im going to test some variables this weekend, mostly im interested in comparing thicklights method of soaking root bark in vinegar overnight instead of grinding it, and compare the results with powdered root bark. in the extraction i already did it was coarsely ground, not powdered but much smaller then the chunks i received it in.

edit: i did not re-crystalize, though i plan to on my next extraction order to hopefully separate a portion of the nmt from the final results.

I would say Cyb's tek works excellently with acrb, the other tek i previously attempted was an a/b with a long acid boil, and a defat and it resulted in roughly 200 mg of crystal from 400 g of root bark, though there was admit-ably quite a bit of error on my part, as it was my first extraction.

 

[Legit]

Thanks deadhor5, 745mg out of 45g root bark doesn't sound bad at all. I'm thinking I'll buy 100g of root bark and do two 50g extractions. But, as I mentioned before, this will be a month or so down the road. Hopefully ACRB's legality will hold up for that long... :|

Can't wait for your report!
As for thick-light's vinegar soak, is the root bark submersed in the solution when it's frozen, or soaked and taken out, then frozen?

 

[Mel Angel]

If they ban Acacia C. they might as well ban every plant that has .25% or less DMT in it.. I want to kill the a hole legislators that started the war on drugs. Of course I won't though...I'm enlightened until they start banning shit.

 

[deadhor5]

Thanks deadhor5, 745mg out of 45g root bark doesn't sound bad at all. I'm thinking I'll buy 100g of root bark and do two 50g extractions. But, as I mentioned before, this will be a month or so down the road. Hopefully ACRB's legality will hold up for that long... :|

Can't wait for your report!
As for thick-light's vinegar soak, is the root bark submersed in the solution when it's frozen, or soaked and taken out, then frozen?

My understanding is that the bark is soaked in acidic water, the excess water is saved for the acid boil, but the fully soaked bark is placed in the freezer, thawed, frozen, and thawed again.

I really wanna try thick lights tek with 50 g of bark, but from what ive heard people arent having success pulling from small amounts with that tek, the success only comes when using larger amounts of bark. I find this odd and concerning.

 

[Legit]

My understanding is that the bark is soaked in acidic water, the excess water is saved for the acid boil, but the fully soaked bark is placed in the freezer, thawed, frozen, and thawed again.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Makes more sense that way.

I really wanna try thick lights tek with 50 g of bark, but from what ive heard people arent having success pulling from small amounts with that tek, the success only comes when using larger amounts of bark. I find this odd and concerning.

This is also a minor concern of mine. Sounds like maybe it isn't pulling much out of the bark or something. Seems like it would be an easy fix, but I can only speculate what that fix may be. Finer grinding/shredding? More vinegar? DMT crashing out of the solvent as it cools? I have no clue.

 

[deadhor5]

My understanding is that the bark is soaked in acidic water, the excess water is saved for the acid boil, but the fully soaked bark is placed in the freezer, thawed, frozen, and thawed again.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Makes more sense that way.

I really wanna try thick lights tek with 50 g of bark, but from what ive heard people arent having success pulling from small amounts with that tek, the success only comes when using larger amounts of bark. I find this odd and concerning.

This is also a minor concern of mine. Sounds like maybe it isn't pulling much out of the bark or something. Seems like it would be an easy fix, but I can only speculate what that fix may be. Finer grinding/shredding? More vinegar? DMT crashing out of the solvent as it cools? I have no clue.

me neither.. eventually when i have the funds to buy enough bark to experiment with many variables i hope to plot the extraction rates of thick lights tek at various amounts of root bark, however, until then cybs seems to be very good for small batches! I got 1.5% out of it, a good part of that may be nmt ( my next experiments will be in purification and recrystalization) but i did very little excess work in order to squeeze any extra amounts out. for example i didnt powder all my root bark (as i said before tests on bark preparation are soon to come) also anywhere cyb gave a minimum amount of time to let something sit for, i went for the minimum, even though he recommended longer, so theoretically i believe one could easily obtain yields of up to 2.5% out of ACRB using cybs tek once we work out all the kinks of this new plant. however, i dont know what percentage of my yield was nmt so its very possible that up to half of that 2.5% could be NMT :/