Do psychedelics really help?

[ShadedSelf]

I realize this is more of a rant/vent than anything else, but feel free to share your thoughts if you feel like it.

Ive heard this story many times, "I did this or that psychedelic and it changed my life".
So did mine, the first time I did LSD it completelly rewired my brain, new person, new life, new perspective and joy.

But do they do anything in the long run?
The truth is that I still do them because it feels more real to me, real life is dull and repetitive, shallow and meaningless. I feel stuck in a recurring dream.

Psychedelics at leat give the illusion of motion, sure, you still have to go in with a mindset of growth, but any step taken fordwards seems to stay back in that bizarre, yet overwhelmingly familiar, paradise of the Infinite Self.
This world remains stagnant, motionless.

Perhaps change is just that slow, first steps mean a lot.
Perhaps this two worlds are not as interchangable as I thought they were.
I feel like I cant change things, powerless, perhaps blinded by what this chemical compunds once did for me.

Anyways, I apreciate you using some of your time and photopigments reading this.

 

[Voidmatrix]

As we enter further into adulthood, things aren't as new to us, we become accustomed and conditioned and life seems more dull. It's neither more or less dull, our perspectives have just changed (there's a little change for us).

There seems to be a few ideas that lead to psychedelic disillusionment that are commonly held here in the western mindset. First, that doing psychedelics only once is all one should need for change to their life. That said, I disagree with the hangup the phone saying once you "get the message." Who says there's only one message. And perhaps we need reminders for things, like how to see the beauty in life. Another idea that I feel contributes to this is the idea that things should be a sort of "epic." There's beauty and excitement to be found in the subtle, but we have to tune ourselves to be receptive to it.

I have some sort of psychedelic interaction relatively regularly because I feel it continues to benefit and change myself and my life in ways that are necessary for me. They help me keep going, realizing that while I tend to be more effective by negative aspects percieved, there's still a plethora of wonder and awe. My psychedelic work helps me see some beauty in the monotony and is an exercise in self mastery in coping with inclement feelings being discussed.

One thing I'd like to add in the vein of harm reduction, be wary of using psychedelics as an escape. That can turn out to be disastrous.

One love

 

[Tomtegubbe]

It's usually the small things that matter.

Psychedelics have given me a lot to think about the unseen layers of the world, but what brought light to my life was quitting drinking and finishing my studies. Psychedelics didn't do that for me, but they showed me it should be done.

 

[fink]

They wont change the world or the people that make it the way it is.

They can change the way we deal with it. Understanding is key to forgiveness. If we devote some of our trips to understanding the behaviours that we view as most alien we can find better ways to forgive and accept.

With enough practice we can even learn to forgive ourselves.

 

[null24]

First- i agree void, it’s just good form to call back when you get a message.

As for OPs question: it depends. On a lot of factors including what you want to get out of them. I did psychedelics for a long time in my youth, and like you they were formative in my development of a world view. But not much beyond that because my interaction with them was almost entirely passive. I took drugs, they did things, i came down and did it again. Not much beyond that and that is all i was seeking- recreation. And that’s okay.

Later in my adulthood i returned to then seeking healing and did so interactively. I engaged with them with intent. In contrast to my opening line to void, there were a few singular experiences which were transformative to my life at that time and it is those experiences I’ve carried into the years beyond them, constructing a life from the truth that i found in them.

And it’s been the hardest, longest lasting project I’ve ever undertaken, with a little of false starts, failures and sufferings to get to a place where i finally feel comfortable with how I’ve navigated the note going on a decade long integration process. Which is complex and every separate from psychedelic use.

I take them with an infrequency now and it’s something in between recreation and intent, sort of a booster shot when i need one sometimes. Frankly, i don’t do them as much as i might, somehow always finding a reason not to. Part of the accountability I’m holding myself to now includes making connections with people and maybe if i has someone to take them with I’d so it more often.

I think I’ve gotten most of what i want out of them except maybe some more fun but the thing about psychedelics is is that they always somehow teach you something. Most if the inner work i have to do now needs to be done with people and psychedelics probably won’t be a huge part of it.

 

[ephedra]

Almost everything can be a pharmakon, in some sense.
Perhaps there is no such thing as a definitive escape that makes a permanent switch to something other than that repetitive dream.
And since life doesn't have a meaning itself, you have to try to give it anyway.
To give you my personal opinion, I was able to find a refuge in the dream, that gives me solace and is simply based on the simple things in life.
But anyways, I would say that the real changes are made with perseverance, patience and a lot of time on the side of reality that is more consistent and where the more concrete density operates.

 

[ShadedSelf]

I think I need to do some work in this world, figure out what I want, do the homework, I havent been meditating as much lately for example.

I still feel the need to dig deeper within the self, but Im getting the sense that it might be better to form some solid ground first and make sure that my relationship with these substances is in a healthy state.

Thank you all for the input and for letting me some space to vent, its been helpful and refreshing to hear different perspectives, different answers to the same question. I appreciate it.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

I think I need to do some work in this world, figure out what I want, do the homework, I havent been meditating as much lately for example.

I still feel the need to dig deeper within the self, but Im getting the sense that it might be better to form some solid ground first and make sure that my relationship with these substances is in a healthy state.

Thank you all for the input and for letting me some space to vent, its been helpful and refreshing to hear different perspectives, different answers to the same question. I appreciate it.

This is the attitude of the true initiate and will yield the greatest blessings the medicine has.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I think I need to do some work in this world, figure out what I want, do the homework, I havent been meditating as much lately for example.

I still feel the need to dig deeper within the self, but Im getting the sense that it might be better to form some solid ground first and make sure that my relationship with these substances is in a healthy state.

Thank you all for the input and for letting me some space to vent, its been helpful and refreshing to hear different perspectives, different answers to the same question. I appreciate it.

This is the attitude of the true initiate and will yield the greatest blessings the medicine has.

^^^ Indeed.

And the work never stops, in the experience/out of the experience, in the world/in yourself.

And I'm a huge advocate for developing "reciprocal relationships" with these substances.

One love

 

[Koduckushi]

I hope you find what you're looking for. It's a tricky path to walk, and so full of uncertainty and pitfalls. I've come to a similar conclusion with the journeys into my mind: I need to be more present. Not only with myself, but all those around me that I care so much about.

I understand the feeling of waking life feeling... stuck. Without purpose. Indifferent. My personal experiences have opened me up more to everything, and I've found that *I* am my life's purpose; building myself into a better man, hopefully helping others do the same, and leave more love in the world than how I found it.

It will take work, but I'm sure it can be done. When I get a little too hard on myself, or life really starts getting me down, I have access to a reset button so to speak.

*Conclusions will most definitely vary between different observers. I could be fundamentally wrong about everything I believe in, but I think I'd be wrong for the right reason.

I hope that my ramblings help in some manner. I wish you the best on your passage through this life.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Consistency is the key. When you are on the afterglow of the trip, it's easy to feel love towards yourself, everybody else and life in general, but when the harsh times come, leading a life that corresponds to your values takes determination. You know your vices, refraining from them takes you a long way in the times you feel like shit.

Feeling good is a byproduct of right and virtuous decisions, but building that takes time and is not guaranteed. Sickness, accidents, arguments can take away your tranquility without your fault, but you still have to keep on walking. The more you walk the more solid the path becomes. It doesn't feel solid each and every day, but in the long run, you notice the difference.

I have been sick for a week now, slept poorly, and I almost had a nervous breakdown when the washing machine just tore apart my underpants. Weather is nice, but I can't enjoy it outside. I'm just waiting for the day to pass by to call in sick again the next day. It's such ordinary suffering, but feels incredibly frustrating. I had just been to some very profound spiritual states the previous days and now I feel failure for not being able to keep it up. But this is what it's like. It's not personal and it's all part of the path.

The direction is important, not the pace. Keep strong, fellow travellers!

 

[Jupiter Man]

My experience with psilohuasca is my most significant. I use this experience as the golden standard of measurement as to my current state of mind. If you want my opinion, I think harmalas are a key to making entheogens helping people in the long run; but with that being said, even a pure experience with mushrooms is enough to remind me of what happiness truly is.

 

[MagicTrip]

Yes, it helps a lot! In every aspect of life.
Mushrooms. Pure. Without mixing with another substances.
Clear. In the morning. Well slept and rested. After a little breakfast. At 6 o'clock. Panaeolus Tropicalis. 15 grams fresh.
It's healing. It's just amazing.

 

[Icyseeker]

I have recently joined a zendo community. One of their common sayings is that a billion eons may pass without a being reaching enlightenment. While I don't really agree with that sentiment. I understand its purpose. That is to highlight the sheer importance of a human rebirth and to say that is possible for a being to reach such a state but only through immense effort.

With psychedelics we have the opportunity to touch that place of immense love for a brief time. That alone makes them immensely valuable and deserving of respect. Personally psychedelics (acid in particular) have played a huge part in my journey away from nihilism and into the love of humanity (ugly or beautiful). But the psychedelic state is impermanent as all things are so we must learn our lessons from them and strive to implement them in our sober life.

Side note I have noticed that the zendo likes to make frameworks and then null them out with the concept of emptiness. I am not a fan of this style of teaching as it is just confusing.

 

[Spiralout]

The two worlds are absolutely interchangeable, or whatever word makes sense here. Our life is way, way stranger than most of us ever think about.

Having change come from one of these psychedelic experiences requires "integration", as most people reading this have heard (you can read through the Nexus Wiki etc. or look for the threads dedicated to integration) ; this integration is going to be a bit different for everyone and, similarly, each person will require different degree's of change in their lives (integration can be though of as sustained, reiterated, changes in behavior and thinking, and the means to keep these changes). I think having a good psychologist, along with a (at least relatively) supportive social structure is key to this. When we are young this may not be true, we can have strong psychedelic experiences which are substantially formative to our life outlook and change the trajectory of our lives forever. This can also occur when you are older, but I think it requires more "work" to allow those experiences to sink in.

This is just my thoughts. I'm nearly 32 and only had a significant/strong psychedelic experience recently for the first time since I was 24. It was cathartic and helped sort through some things that have been bothering me. I'm very much back to where I was before the journey now however. This is not a completely bad thing: no matter how pathological or negative you think your daily self is, at least you have "grounding" . So, yeah, I'm not sure what the path forward is, these are just my thoughts.

 

[Jungleheart]

Most importantly, you are building capacity for your regular, waking life. Then you can take on more challenges and solve problems for society.

A lot of the help in psychedelics come from the blank slate afterwards, in which you put yourself together again. So that phase is called integration and it is at least as important as the trip itself. Also, with some psychedelics, like ayahuasca, it can be like therapy as you are confronted with parts of yourself that you don't like or ancestral patterns you want to break. You can also become more confident as you become more intimately aware of your own inner workings.

Second most importantly, one might also make decisions and set intentions while tripping, which I believe is more powerful than doing this sober.

Those are the benefits of looking internally.

Externally, if ones believes in such things, there may be benefits to connecting with external forces. I believe psychedelics gives access to the supernatural forces that exist in the world. If you experience that connection while tripping, you may learn useful things or gain help on your journey.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

I realize this is more of a rant/vent than anything else, but feel free to share your thoughts if you feel like it.

Ive heard this story many times, "I did this or that psychedelic and it changed my life".
So did mine, the first time I did LSD it completelly rewired my brain, new person, new life, new perspective and joy.

But do they do anything in the long run?
The truth is that I still do them because it feels more real to me, real life is dull and repetitive, shallow and meaningless. I feel stuck in a recurring dream.

Psychedelics at leat give the illusion of motion, sure, you still have to go in with a mindset of growth, but any step taken fordwards seems to stay back in that bizarre, yet overwhelmingly familiar, paradise of the Infinite Self.
This world remains stagnant, motionless.

Perhaps change is just that slow, first steps mean a lot.
Perhaps this two worlds are not as interchangable as I thought they were.
I feel like I cant change things, powerless, perhaps blinded by what this chemical compunds once did for me.

Anyways, I apreciate you using some of your time and photopigments reading this.

There's that perfect Dead song...
"Comin', comin', comin' around
in circles"
The Other One

Yeah, I mean bringing it back is the perennial problem, isn't it?

Sometimes I feel that more frequent low doses with a good set and setting work well. Seems you can only bring back a little at a time. Maybe only bring back memories (don't discount that)

I have told people that acid helped me to see God, but that the state was ephemeral.

So the use was to show me that God was there, and exists.

That's nothing to shake a stick at. However, the psychedelics don't do it for you. They are tools. You have to seek without them as well.

 

[hug454]

If the notion of help is akin to personal growth, then i guess that it really depends on what kind of person one is as to whether psychedelics help. I would say that psychedelics could be a beneficial part of the growth ... or not.
As an analogy i will compare this path of growth, and the coming together of various factors that may help, as...say a curry recipe. And the psychedelics are the onion that is the ingredient in the recipe that makes it all come together very nicely. But, then again, some people don't gel with onions. They may have a bad reaction to them. My neighbour reckons they give her IBS. And the same could be said for psyches. People can have non productive reactions..anxiety, paranoia, god complexes or being so nice and kind to the point of being annoying (and yeah i get that me getting annoyed with overly nice people could be my hangup and not there's).

My daughter says she doesn't like onions but i generally sneak em in anyway and i certainly get no complaints when i am in the kitchen producing the goods. But that doesn't mean to say that i am in favour of people being spiked with mind expanding drugs without their knowledge or consent.

I have thought about the curry analogy a bit more. If DMT was an item on an indian restaurant menu, it would be an onion bhaji. Yum Yum!

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Doors opening for you don't mean shit if you don't take a step through them.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Doors opening for you don't mean shit if you don't take a step through them.

AMEN! SMOALK MOAR!

One love