Dmt has been described by many as dreaming whilevawake, some say dreams have meaninga, if this is true tgen why would dmt not have meaning? Its the exact same thing just,a higer dose. for instinse, i saw,a lot of clowns in my trip, maybe it meant something. If anyone has info send it to me
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Do the things we whitness while tripping have meaning?
- Thread starter Hiazfuk
- Start date
When I first started I saw a lot of clown and carnival like motifs.
It seems to be a fairly common theme in the beginning .
Over time my experiences have changed and the carnival theme is
No longer . It's evolved over time and the visuals now are quite different than when i started.
The rich visual tapestry at the very least is full stimulation of the
Creative possibility of our minds . The dmt experience is unmatched on so many levels .
The visuals could have profound meaning . Meaning that our monkey minds are only just beginning
To grasp .
I still wonder quote often ,. Why clowns ? I never realized clowns could gave such deep archetypal meaning
Until I began my oddesy with this stuff .
It seems to be a fairly common theme in the beginning .
Over time my experiences have changed and the carnival theme is
No longer . It's evolved over time and the visuals now are quite different than when i started.
The rich visual tapestry at the very least is full stimulation of the
Creative possibility of our minds . The dmt experience is unmatched on so many levels .
The visuals could have profound meaning . Meaning that our monkey minds are only just beginning
To grasp .
I still wonder quote often ,. Why clowns ? I never realized clowns could gave such deep archetypal meaning
Until I began my oddesy with this stuff .
my 2c, I don’t believe they have a literal meaning but they can influence the way we think about things and how we experience our lives, perhaps tripping is a kind of brain workout and exploration into the depths of our unconsciousness? From what I understand there is no evidence that hallucinations are the workings of anything other than our own brains. But then again my only experience til now has been with lsd and shrooms! Bring on the clowns :d
I dounbt it is all subjective or all objective.
Everyone who takes tryptamines sees the same general neon grids and patterns...does that not mean something? Of course it does. Might have to do with neurophysics might be more to it..but it means something becasue it happens.
This is like asking "when I fall in love with someone, does that have any meaning?" ...and science will tell you that it is nothing but brain chemistry. Okay, well according to science what experience is NOT just summed up to brain chemistry?
..and yet, everyone falls in love. Does that mean the experience is entirely subjective in a broader sense? We are all human and it is objective fact that we have these experiences across the board. That is real enough for me to find meaning.
Everyone who takes tryptamines sees the same general neon grids and patterns...does that not mean something? Of course it does. Might have to do with neurophysics might be more to it..but it means something becasue it happens.
This is like asking "when I fall in love with someone, does that have any meaning?" ...and science will tell you that it is nothing but brain chemistry. Okay, well according to science what experience is NOT just summed up to brain chemistry?
..and yet, everyone falls in love. Does that mean the experience is entirely subjective in a broader sense? We are all human and it is objective fact that we have these experiences across the board. That is real enough for me to find meaning.
I don't think science can have an opinion, but I get what you're saying. Personally I find it fascinating that all our personal experiences could possibly be the chemical reactions of a small bunch of elements. How little we know about their mysterious workings 
As all brains are similar I don't find it surprising that love could be subjective across the board, the fact that it is so may be objective. And for sure it has meaning to you, to me, and I'm sure to every scientist who has ever fallen in love!
As all brains are similar I don't find it surprising that love could be subjective across the board, the fact that it is so may be objective. And for sure it has meaning to you, to me, and I'm sure to every scientist who has ever fallen in love!
Hiazfuk said:
Clowns may have meaning to you, I and a number of other Earth humanoids... but might be unintelligible characters for beings existing on other planets or in other dimensions? Here, they do have an archetypal meaning to them, however, we each need to find out WHY we are having them in our visions.
So, if you are having visions with clowns in them, you need to find out what they mean within your own individual psyche. They represent an appropriate symbol in your own psychology, therefore, you need to interpret just WHY you are having visions of clowns. Human kind have had clowns in their concept of reality, since our early ancestral beginnings.
I am of the opinion that we "hallucinate" who we are. We see in psychedelic visions the parade of our own personal symbolics. Clowns are wonderful beings. Who doesn't love a person who lives to make others smile and ideally laugh? Now, if there is a deeper symbolic meaning to these psychedelic clowns... only YOU can find out what their meaning might be for yourself. Trance visions are messages from our higher self. :idea:
DMT is like any other entheogen, yet more potent and mind-splintering. Ultimately, what we see is a mirror of our own self. The universe and the dynamic of earthly existence are all interpreted and codified by our unique minds. that being said, there are a number of repeated archetypes which appear in the visions of many travelers.
fractal enchantment said:
Agreed. Any image appearing in dreams or visions cannot be fully subjective nor fully objective, as with The Grid, The Spiral Tunnel or the Clear Light of the Void. Some visuals we share with our fellow humankind and others are wholly unique and most individual to our perceptual field of awareness. Even when we share similar archtypes... we certainly interpret them and conceptualize about them in our own egocentric manner.
joedirt said:
Exactly!!! We are the ones who find the hidden meaning in these symbols and we alone who give life to their existence. After all, our minds are the stage for the entire human paradigm. Every circuit needs the current and each point of interaction is born from the cross-existence of this fusion of energies.
Even so, for thousands of years our species has used entheogens/psychedelics to find our own Totems, our own personal values and meanings for the codification of such a complex symbology. the carnival atmosphere is fairly common to 20th and 21st century psychonauts. I visit there sometimes in lucid dreams and also, within my Salvia trips.
"Bring on the Clowns!!!" :lol:
open'nheart
Rising Star
I have always appreciated the Lakota for assigning their seemingly profane clowns a sacred position in the social hierarchy.
Heyoka - Wikipedia
Heyoka - Wikipedia
open'nheart said:
"For example, if food were scarce, a Heyókȟa would sit around and complain about how full he was; during a baking hot heat wave a Heyókȟa would shiver with cold and put on gloves and cover himself with a thick blanket. Similarly, when it is 40 degrees below freezing he will wander around naked for hours complaining that it is too hot. "
I would too assign them sacred! I wonder how did/do they look like?
There is always the slightly taboo (around here) concept that what we see is real.
Authentically and objectively real... not projections of our own neurochemistry or subconsciousness.
In fact, it might be extremely left brained & arrogant of us to believe that it is "all about us" physically or psychologically. Who's to say? There is no way to prove anything in this one way or another. In the absence of real proof, people will gravitate towards the belief that supports their existing conceptions and ontological frameworks.
However, the fact that so many people see pretty much the same stuff... that, for all intents and purposes, there seem to be archetypal beings that seem fairly universal in that vastly different people, with vastly different neurochemistries, vastly different experiences, and vastly different psyches all tend to see.
Most people SWIM knows had never given much thought to jesters & harlequins (for example) before seeing them regularly in hyperspace. It isn't like everyone has a subconscious clown fixation.
Lots to think about.
Authentically and objectively real... not projections of our own neurochemistry or subconsciousness.
In fact, it might be extremely left brained & arrogant of us to believe that it is "all about us" physically or psychologically. Who's to say? There is no way to prove anything in this one way or another. In the absence of real proof, people will gravitate towards the belief that supports their existing conceptions and ontological frameworks.
However, the fact that so many people see pretty much the same stuff... that, for all intents and purposes, there seem to be archetypal beings that seem fairly universal in that vastly different people, with vastly different neurochemistries, vastly different experiences, and vastly different psyches all tend to see.
Most people SWIM knows had never given much thought to jesters & harlequins (for example) before seeing them regularly in hyperspace. It isn't like everyone has a subconscious clown fixation.
Lots to think about.
personally I've never seen any of the archetypal being, not clowns, not elves, not aliens. I've seen humans and rhombocahedrons and hypercubes and I have no idea what they mean, if looking only at the visual aspect of them. If I look at my feelings, my state of mind, then sometimes I understand and sometimes I don't. Whether I communicate with other beings or just myself, whether I am really walking around in an impossible garden or *just* dreaming, this is a question we can ask ourselves about just about anything. We have no proof other than our sensations, our perceptions. The question is, what does it matter? We interact with what we perceive. We can learn from these interactions, then they have meaning. To us.
reality is just a word. it has no meaning itself. what is the significance of something that is REAL if it has no effect on us? What is the significance of something that is not REAL if it HAS an effect on us?
reality is just a word. it has no meaning itself. what is the significance of something that is REAL if it has no effect on us? What is the significance of something that is not REAL if it HAS an effect on us?
Enoon said:
On a deep philosophical level, there is no way to prove that anything is objectively real. No matter what your senses are showing you, it could ALWAYS be a dream.
The idea that our supposedly material waking life could be another kind of dream pervades many religious and spiritual traditions. The Sanskrit idea of Maya or the Aboriginal idea of Dreamtime come to mind. This might arise from the fact that one CAN definitively prove oneself to be dreaming at times.
However, for those people who do encounter seemingly sentient and hyper intelligent beings on their journeys, it actually does make a large difference whether one believes them to be projections of one's mind or actual external beings. (external to your consciousness that is)
The information gleaned from them would be equally valuable (or not) regardless... but, the manner one would interact with them might be significantly altered. There is a different level of gratitude and respect one would have if one believed that hyper-intelligent beings were taking the time to work with you or interact with you, than if you felt it was just your fantastic mental masturbation.
IMHO anyway.
DMT:
a) is all in our head, its not real.
b) is all in our head, is also real.
c) gives access to alternate dimensions.
d) it was all a dream, i used to read wordup magazine.
a) is all in our head, its not real.
b) is all in our head, is also real.
c) gives access to alternate dimensions.
d) it was all a dream, i used to read wordup magazine.
Hyperspace Fool said:
Must it always be one way or the other? I try to stay open to both options and try to learn from both as much as I can. I'm still trying to figure out who Pedro, my hyperspace friend, was... There is no reason for me to think in Real/un-real terms. The universe is not binary afaik, why should dmt be.
^ I suppose that is the only reasonable way to proceed, regardless. Whether it is real, projection, combination of the two, or some other truth I can not fathom at the moment, it seems wise to proceed as if all possibilities were actual.
I find that the Universe tends to give you what you look for. If you look for evidence that these places & entities are "real," it is likely you will find some. And vice versa.
Still, when one awakens from a dream where one went to work naked & is happy to find that it wasn't real, it IS a relief.
Likewise, but totally opposite, is the feeling one gets when the actual solution to a waking life problem is given to one in a dream.
It is conceivable that the dream where you were naked was an actual alternate reality, and it is conceivable that the information one receives in dreams that seems to be new to you actually comes from the subconscious... and if reality is illusion as well, anything goes. Yet, these things do have an effect on the way we FEEL about our experiences, and thus our actions and reactions.
Only the value of your experience as it applies to this moment matters in truth. In another time and place, other aspects of your experience might seem valuable or applicable, but you can only work with where you are... The things that seem real and meaningful to you now, could very well seem ephemeral and illusory at some later stage of the game.
I find that the Universe tends to give you what you look for. If you look for evidence that these places & entities are "real," it is likely you will find some. And vice versa.
Still, when one awakens from a dream where one went to work naked & is happy to find that it wasn't real, it IS a relief.
Likewise, but totally opposite, is the feeling one gets when the actual solution to a waking life problem is given to one in a dream.
It is conceivable that the dream where you were naked was an actual alternate reality, and it is conceivable that the information one receives in dreams that seems to be new to you actually comes from the subconscious... and if reality is illusion as well, anything goes. Yet, these things do have an effect on the way we FEEL about our experiences, and thus our actions and reactions.
Only the value of your experience as it applies to this moment matters in truth. In another time and place, other aspects of your experience might seem valuable or applicable, but you can only work with where you are... The things that seem real and meaningful to you now, could very well seem ephemeral and illusory at some later stage of the game.
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