Would you be able to point me to some of these demonstrations of existence? As I said, there is not a link between hallucination and mental illness. Also, we can see atoms, if we use the correct equipment. And my point wasn't about sight alone: sure we can't see atoms, but we can demonstrate their existence through empirical means like non-contact atomic force microscopy.
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Do you believe in ghosts?
- Thread starter TMK
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do a simple search, there are videos for days.
apparently, people have the correct equipment to demonstrate these energy anomalies exist.
are they "ghosts"? maybe, maybe not. who knows. Along with these videos and accounts, there are obviously all sorts of theories attempting to debunk what people experience, yet still no conclusive answer when the experiences repeat.
I went from a closed-minded skeptic to an agnostic stance on the issue, after a few strange incidents I experienced; and you know me, I tried to come up with all sorts of rational explanations, but ended up shrugging and stupefied with curiosity.
I can confidently say, "I don't know."
also, AFM doesn't have the resolution to show the existence of individual atoms, only molecules.
apparently, people have the correct equipment to demonstrate these energy anomalies exist.
are they "ghosts"? maybe, maybe not. who knows. Along with these videos and accounts, there are obviously all sorts of theories attempting to debunk what people experience, yet still no conclusive answer when the experiences repeat.
I went from a closed-minded skeptic to an agnostic stance on the issue, after a few strange incidents I experienced; and you know me, I tried to come up with all sorts of rational explanations, but ended up shrugging and stupefied with curiosity.
I can confidently say, "I don't know."
also, AFM doesn't have the resolution to show the existence of individual atoms, only molecules.
benzyme said:
Ah, fair enough. Consider my curiosity satiated. Also, you are correct. I meant scanning tunneling microscopy, as in the IBM xenon atoms picture.
I think a position of "I don't know" is the best position in the modern day.
darellmatt
Rising Star
I have seen, on more than one occasion, photographic phenomena that could not be explained as ordinary physical phenomena. If you are prone to skepticism you won't believe me and I won't try to convince you. I withhold judgement on what these non-ordinary phenomena are, or what they represent. And I did not believe in them my self, right up to the day where I witnessed the evidence.
Parshvik Chintan
Esteemed member
this is essentially my position.Jin said:
only it isn't so much scary (to me) as depressing.
to be stuck on earth for an eternity without the ability to physically interact with anything?
that sounds like a horrible way to go...
The problem with asking if you believe in ghosts is similar to the problem with asking if you believe in god. Many people will read "god" as the abrahamic god, and many people will read "ghosts" as lost souls of dead people, and give a dismissive answer. The word "believe" somehow implies that reading. I agree with benzyme here.
If any scientifically minded individual (and I mean properly, scientifically minded individual, not a skeptic with bad inertia) takes some time to gather how huge the collection of reports and documentation is, and to read the relevant pieces in it, he should not dismiss the whole phenomenon as a mass mental malfunction. The point is not whether "ghosts" exist, but rather what are they.
And I have not seen a ghost myself, but I've shared experiences with other people that fall outside of the delusion theory, even the mass delusion theory, when it comes to psychic/paranormal phenomena.
So in that sense yes, I do "believe" in ghosts. But we'd need a new word to describe those happenings in the EM field.
If any scientifically minded individual (and I mean properly, scientifically minded individual, not a skeptic with bad inertia) takes some time to gather how huge the collection of reports and documentation is, and to read the relevant pieces in it, he should not dismiss the whole phenomenon as a mass mental malfunction. The point is not whether "ghosts" exist, but rather what are they.
And I have not seen a ghost myself, but I've shared experiences with other people that fall outside of the delusion theory, even the mass delusion theory, when it comes to psychic/paranormal phenomena.
So in that sense yes, I do "believe" in ghosts. But we'd need a new word to describe those happenings in the EM field.
I have a photo of a very stark "oddity" that I would love for someone with a eye for these things to check out. Unfortunately it is a full on shot of me and a group of friends so I do not think this is the best place to post it.
Let's just say it's like a huge orb that has an ankh and a broken infinity sign within it, floating right in front of my third eye. I say like a huge orb as it is not characteristic of any other orb I have seen online (and I will say I both feel and agree that most are pretty obviously dust and particulates). This was at a time I was meditating heavily, seeking guidance and seeking protection for certain reasons.
I know this is not the popular kind of thinking with many here, it is not something I treat as rigid as a religion myself. I just can't help but have interest with some of the mad things I have seen.
Let's just say it's like a huge orb that has an ankh and a broken infinity sign within it, floating right in front of my third eye. I say like a huge orb as it is not characteristic of any other orb I have seen online (and I will say I both feel and agree that most are pretty obviously dust and particulates). This was at a time I was meditating heavily, seeking guidance and seeking protection for certain reasons.
I know this is not the popular kind of thinking with many here, it is not something I treat as rigid as a religion myself. I just can't help but have interest with some of the mad things I have seen.
Parshvik Chintan
Esteemed member
turns out the word grave was a pormanteau of the words ghost and ravehug46 said:
ghosts have the best drugs.3rdI said:
..it is my current belief that everything people see is a form of hallucination..just depends which form..TMK said:It is my current belief that these things people see, are a form of hallucination. Caused by the observer being in an elevated state for one reason or another. The mind is so powerful, it can make us see and feel things our reason can't explain. We decide to label these things as ghosts, and declare them to be as real, as the physical things we are custom to in order to explain the un-explainable, similar to religion. To me they are as real as the things we see on psychedelics. But then, I have never really seen one....hehe.
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interesting...
so what is it that "tells you no"? and how are you sure?
or do you admit that you don't know?
...
my wife felt someone slap her, her face was burning..there was nobody there, and she was awake.
but like you said, it was real for her.
and what may be real to you, may not be real to me, like dreams, hallucinations, experiences. that's life, and so-called reality.
I find it both amusing and ironic than many religious people believe there was a holy spirit, but also believe spirits (ghosts) don't exist. How can someone observe spirituality, and believe spirits don't exist?
so what is it that "tells you no"? and how are you sure?
or do you admit that you don't know?
...
my wife felt someone slap her, her face was burning..there was nobody there, and she was awake.
but like you said, it was real for her.
and what may be real to you, may not be real to me, like dreams, hallucinations, experiences. that's life, and so-called reality.
I find it both amusing and ironic than many religious people believe there was a holy spirit, but also believe spirits (ghosts) don't exist. How can someone observe spirituality, and believe spirits don't exist?
"How can someone observe spirituality, and believe spirits don't exist?"
I can only guess, but I would imagine by the same mechanism that enabled them to believe that god made colored people to serve white people, and that women were created from the rib of a man. People will believe all kinds of utterly stupid things.
I can only guess, but I would imagine by the same mechanism that enabled them to believe that god made colored people to serve white people, and that women were created from the rib of a man. People will believe all kinds of utterly stupid things.
benzyme said:
I guess I just feel that in observing the natural flow of life. The path that leads to a soul being lost. Doesn't make sense to me. I am not sure of anything, and I do admit that of course I don't know. What I feel, is no more correct or incorrect than anyone else. I think the only stance that is close to truth, is being on the fence. I guess I'm open to the possibility of humans observing something that may exist outside typical observation. But then I am also open to the possibility that it is all fabricated in our minds.
Yeah it's funny that there can be a holy ghost. But most other ghosts are wicked.
In a strictly theoretical mindset, considering most animals (and especially humans) can be coerced, corralled and disorientated. Who is to say that should we exist as discarnate entities either between or after our time in the world of matter, that our state there would reflect our state here.
Is it not possible that our state of mind at death may be reflected in the overall state of any discarnate entity that follows? I mean if it's state were severe enough (trauma etc) could this create some kind of resonance (or lack of a specific rate) that stopped "travel" into other modes of existence.
Just contemplating... Nothing I would base a solid belief on, a spot of playful thinking based on various things people bandy about
Is it not possible that our state of mind at death may be reflected in the overall state of any discarnate entity that follows? I mean if it's state were severe enough (trauma etc) could this create some kind of resonance (or lack of a specific rate) that stopped "travel" into other modes of existence.
Just contemplating... Nothing I would base a solid belief on, a spot of playful thinking based on various things people bandy about
Assuming a person has a 'soul', and this soul is composed of energy (supposedly there is evidence that an "aura" of energy surrounds people, and has been measured), then by observing the First Law of Thermodynamics, this energy does not die with the person, it is transformed.
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