Do you use datura?

[Jin]

pls pls pls don't use this as a weapon , even touching the leaves of the plant and then rubbing your eyes can affect you by dialating your eyes for a few hours ,
all i am saying is two of my friends lives have been ruined ingesting the plant , and i have met some real monstrous men who have been smoking the plant for years and they all started out as sages in search of the truth but they walked the wrong path , now they are nothing more than common criminals and thiefs stupifying their victims and robbing them
this is no way a psychadelic , i believe pioneers like terrence , timothy and the others who did not in any way recommend this plant had be wise to do so

 

[MySmelf]

pls pls pls don't use this as a weapon , even touching the leaves of the plant and then rubbing your eyes can affect you by dialating your eyes for a few hours ,
all i am saying is two of my friends lives have been ruined ingesting the plant , and i have met some real monstrous men who have been smoking the plant for years and they all started out as sages in search of the truth but they walked the wrong path , now they are nothing more than common criminals and thiefs stupifying their victims and robbing them
this is no way a psychadelic , i believe pioneers like terrence , timothy and the others who did not in any way recommend this plant had be wise to do so

Actually Terence does recommend datura to two people in a story he tells in his book "True Hallucinations". Though he was only joking and not really his fault they took him seriously!

 

[polytrip]

pls pls pls don't use this as a weapon , even touching the leaves of the plant and then rubbing your eyes can affect you by dialating your eyes for a few hours ,
all i am saying is two of my friends lives have been ruined ingesting the plant , and i have met some real monstrous men who have been smoking the plant for years and they all started out as sages in search of the truth but they walked the wrong path , now they are nothing more than common criminals and thiefs stupifying their victims and robbing them
this is no way a psychadelic , i believe pioneers like terrence , timothy and the others who did not in any way recommend this plant had be wise to do so

Actually Terence does recommend datura to two people in a story he tells in his book "True Hallucinations". Though he was only joking and not really his fault they took him seriously!

Someon wrote a report about tripping on ayahuasca with a shaman in the amazon region. He stated that his shaman spoke of brujos, evil shamans who use black magic.

I wonder if he could be refering to people who use brugmansia.

When i think of an evil form of shamanism, tropane containing plants like datura and brugmansia are the first plants that come to mind.

 

[jamie]

^ I highly doubt it. As much as people tend to demonize tropane bearing plants, it seems that many legit curranderos do use them in brews..there are many reports of people drinking with brugmansia in the amazon in ceremony and having powerful healings. I am not saying go take tropanes, but I dont think these plants are looked at in the same way by indigenous peoples. Look at tobacco.

 

[easyrider]

I found this historical account describing a mass datura ingestion during colonial America from wikipedia's article interesting and yet terrifying:

In the United States the plant is called jimson weed, or more rarely Jamestown weed; it got this name from the town of Jamestown, Virginia, where British soldiers were drugged with it while attempting to suppress Bacon's Rebellion. They spent eleven days generally appearing to have gone insane:

The James-Town Weed (which resembles the Thorny Apple of Peru, and I take to be the plant so call'd) is supposed to be one of the greatest coolers in the world. This being an early plant, was gather'd very young for a boil'd salad, by some of the soldiers sent thither to quell the rebellion of Bacon (1676); and some of them ate plentifully of it, the effect of which was a very pleasant comedy, for they turned natural fools upon it for several days: one would blow up a feather in the air; another would dart straws at it with much fury; and another, stark naked, was sitting up in a corner like a monkey, grinning and making mows [grimaces] at them; a fourth would fondly kiss and paw his companions, and sneer in their faces with a countenance more antic than any in a Dutch droll.

In this frantic condition they were confined, lest they should, in their folly, destroy themselves — though it was observed that all their actions were full of innocence and good nature. Indeed, they were not very cleanly; for they would have wallowed in their own excrements, if they had not been prevented. A thousand such simple tricks they played, and after eleven days returned themselves again, not remembering anything that had passed. – The History and Present State of Virginia, 1705[11]

 

[Ginkgo]

Someon wrote a report about tripping on ayahuasca with a shaman in the amazon region. He stated that his shaman spoke of brujos, evil shamans who use black magic.

I wonder if he could be refering to people who use brugmansia.

When i think of an evil form of shamanism, tropane containing plants like datura and brugmansia are the first plants that come to mind.

The term brujo has not much to do with what plants are used. Brujos are dark shamans who use their powers for evil instead of good, and that's as far as the term stretches. Somewhat like the demonized picture of European witches. Brugmansia is used by both brujos and regular shamans. It is sometimes added to brews intended for people that have trouble seeing any proper visions - it acts as a vision-enabler, so to speak.

 

[polytrip]

^ I highly doubt it. As much as people tend to demonize tropane bearing plants, it seems that many legit curranderos do use them in brews..there are many reports of people drinking with brugmansia in the amazon in ceremony and having powerful healings. I am not saying go take tropanes, but I dont think these plants are looked at in the same way by indigenous peoples. Look at tobacco.

I didn't mean to demonize the plant. I'm just asking myself: "what could make people decide to make the wrong turn in life?". And although as mentioned in the 'they took shrooms and yet they murdered their childeren' thread, any substance could potentially be used for evil practices, i think the use of some substances are more likely to end in something that could be considered evil.
Substances that take away your awareness or feelings are more likely to do this.
The use of tropanes could easily turn you into a zombie without any feelings left of guilt, empathy or remorse. And people could even experience this as liberating.
For this reason i just think that evil shamans would more likely have a preference for brugmansia.
The herbs could be used in healing shamanistic rituals, but people who engage in such rituals without properly preparing themselves and without guidance could end up badly.

Mushrooms, caapi, peyote and ololiuqui heighten your awarenes. Any evil thought you may have will like a boomerang come back at you. But other substances numb or sedate you. Tropanes can take away any form of awareness, turning you into a zombie.

 

[ewok]

^ I highly doubt it. As much as people tend to demonize tropane bearing plants, it seems that many legit curranderos do use them in brews..there are many reports of people drinking with brugmansia in the amazon in ceremony and having powerful healings. I am not saying go take tropanes, but I dont think these plants are looked at in the same way by indigenous peoples. Look at tobacco.

I didn't mean to demonize the plant. I'm just asking myself: "what could make people decide to make the wrong turn in life?". And although as mentioned in the 'they took shrooms and yet they murdered their childeren' thread, any substance could potentially be used for evil practices, i think the use of some substances are more likely to end in something that could be considered evil.
Substances that take away your awareness or feelings are more likely to do this.
The use of tropanes could easily turn you into a zombie without any feelings left of guilt, empathy or remorse. And people could even experience this as liberating.
For this reason i just think that evil shamans would more likely have a preference for brugmansia.
The herbs could be used in healing shamanistic rituals, but people who engage in such rituals without properly preparing themselves and without guidance could end up badly.

Mushrooms, caapi, peyote and ololiuqui heighten your awarenes. Any evil thought you may have will like a boomerang come back at you. But other substances numb or sedate you. Tropanes can take away any form of awareness, turning you into a zombie.

After my experience with datura I can see how easily you could manipulate someone under its influence, and your right about no feelings of guilt, remorse, right or wrong its all meaningless.

 

[giver of will]

I remember reading a trip report where some kid ate maybe 10 seeds? Started going delirious, he was in his closet and thought he was standing in line at the grocery store. Ended up going into a 3 day comma and woke up at a hospital. He lost a good bit of his eyesight apparently.

 

[a1pha]

I remember reading a trip report where some kid ate maybe 10 seeds? Started going delirious, he was in his closet and thought he was standing in line at the grocery store. Ended up going into a 3 day comma and woke up at a hospital. He lost a good bit of his eyesight apparently.

Source?

I have never heard 10 datura seeds causing a three-day coma (or even having much of an effect other than anti-nausea).

 

[giver of will]

I remember reading a trip report where some kid ate maybe 10 seeds? Started going delirious, he was in his closet and thought he was standing in line at the grocery store. Ended up going into a 3 day comma and woke up at a hospital. He lost a good bit of his eyesight apparently.

Source?

I have never heard 10 datura seeds causing a three-day coma (or even having much of an effect other than anti-nausea).

It was somewhere on erowid, I read it years ago when I first heard about datura. I'm not really sure if I'm being accurate with the dosage (I have read each seed cannot be measured to a specific dose, increasing the dangers of eating them) it might have been 10-20 seeds? I just know that the seeds have a wide variety of potency and there is no way of measuring your dosage (much like morning glory seeds). And yes I have read many reports of people reporting long term negative effects from taking datura. I believe permatripping is the term?

 

[a1pha]

It was somewhere on erowid, I read it years ago when I first heard about datura. I'm not really sure if I'm being accurate with the dosage (I have read each seed cannot be measured to a specific dose, increasing the dangers of eating them) it might have been 10-20 seeds? I just know that the seeds have a wide variety of potency and there is no way of measuring your dosage (much like morning glory seeds). And yes I have read many reports of people reporting long term negative effects from taking datura. I think permatripping is the term?

We should avoid giving numbers off the top of our head if we do not know. Especially with this dangerous plant.

From 69ron:

The main alkaloid in Datura inoxia seeds it scopolamine. The alkaloid makeup is nearly 97% scopolamine. So it's very similar to taking pure scopolamine. The only difference really is that the potency varies from seed to seed.

The average seed contains about 0.4% scopolamine. This data below is based on an average seed size of average potency.

1 seed would weigh about 10 mg and contain about 40 micrograms of scopolamine.

10 seeds would weigh about 100 mg and contain about 400 micrograms of scopolamine.

20 seeds would weigh about 200 mg and contain about 800 micrograms of scopolamine.

25 seeds would weigh about 250 mg and contain about 1000 micrograms of scopolamine.

37.5 seeds would weigh about 375 mg and contain about 1500 micrograms of scopolamine.

250 seeds would weigh about 2500 mg and contain about 10,000 micrograms of scopolamine.

The adult scopolamine dose needed for medicinal effects lies between 100 and 1000 micrograms.

The adult scopolamine dose needed for mental intoxication lies between 1000 and 1500 micrograms.

The adult scopolamine dose needed for delirium lies between 1500 and 10,000 micrograms.

The adult scopolamine dose needed to end your life is about 10,000 micrograms or more. But it may be less in some people.

Doctors routinely prescribe scopolamine for many things in the dosage range of 400-800 micrograms. 1500 micrograms is considered the maximum safe dose of scopolamine. 10,000 micrograms can be lethal. Anything below 400 micrograms (10 seeds) is extremely safe and effective for boosting the effects of other psychedelics. A larger dose is not needed.

You should always assume you have super potent seeds and that you are extra sensitive to the effects of scopolamine. Those figure above are average figures. Some seeds are super potent and extra large. Dosing by seed count is not wise. Doses should be weighed in milligrams.

Link

 

[giver of will]

Your link just came from another member of the DMT nexus. No offense, but I dont believe you can measure the potency of datura seeds. Sorry. And sorry for posting an estimate, I didnt realize our sources had to be cited everytime we posted (no sarcasm intended whatsoever).

 

[a1pha]

Your link just came from another member of the DMT nexus. No offense, but I dont believe you can measure the potency of datura seeds. Sorry. And sorry for posting an estimate, I didnt realize our sources had to be cited everytime we posted.

A trusted member of the forum, yes.

Why can't you measure the potency of datura seeds? Scopolamine is well tested. PubMed Results for Scopolamine in Datura Seeds.

You don't need to cite every time you post. But if you make a fantastic claim like "10 datura seeds caused a 3-day coma" then I'd hope to see some sort of reference.

No offense taken.

 

[giver of will]

Your link just came from another member of the DMT nexus. No offense, but I dont believe you can measure the potency of datura seeds. Sorry. And sorry for posting an estimate, I didnt realize our sources had to be cited everytime we posted.

A trusted member of the forum, yes.

Why can't you measure the potency of datura seeds? Scopolamine is well tested. PubMed Results for Scopolamine in Datura Seeds.

You don't need to cite every time you post. But if you make a fantastic claim like "10 datura seeds caused a 3-day coma" then I'd hope to see some sort of reference.

No offense taken.

Haha, sorry many it was just a long time ago when I read that report and some people are more affected by drugs than others. I was thinking each seed was super potent.

"Potency increases over the reproductive period and peaks while the plant is fruiting. As few as 10 datura seeds taken orally or one leaf brewed into a tea can produce profound perceptual changes, and 30-40 seeds is an extremely potent dose. "

Erowid

how can you measure it if you dont know how the plant has grown, how long it has been fruiting for, etc? Unless you grow it and pay extreme detail to the plants I guess.

 

[easyrider]

I think what giver of will is trying to say is that the psychoactive ingredient varies greatly from seed to seed, which I myself have read on erowid and elsewhere. This would make any attempt at potency charts meaningless. I don't know much about datura other than it obviously has a bad track record, so I don't know how true this is.

 

[a1pha]

"Potency increases over the reproductive period and peaks while the plant is fruiting. As few as 10 datura seeds taken orally or one leaf brewed into a tea can produce profound perceptual changes, and 30-40 seeds is an extremely potent dose. "Erowid

Erowid is useful but should be taken with a grain of salt. Erowid focuses on trip reports more than hard science.

how can you measure it if you dont know how the plant has grown, how long it has been fruiting for, etc? Unless you grow it and pay extreme detail to the plants I guess.

If you're using something like datura then I think it would be best to know how the pant is grown, how long it's been fruiting, etc. If you don't want to spend the time to understand the plants that you're working with, then find a reliable source, grind together a hundred or so seeds, then start small and incrementally raise your dose from this now even mix.

Or, you can get the equipment like 69ron and test it yourself.

All kinds of ways...

 

[giver of will]

"Potency increases over the reproductive period and peaks while the plant is fruiting. As few as 10 datura seeds taken orally or one leaf brewed into a tea can produce profound perceptual changes, and 30-40 seeds is an extremely potent dose. "Erowid

Erowid is useful but should be taken with a grain of salt. Erowid focuses on trip reports more than hard science.

how can you measure it if you dont know how the plant has grown, how long it has been fruiting for, etc? Unless you grow it and pay extreme detail to the plants I guess.

If you're using something like datura then I think it would be best to know how the pant is grown, how long it's been fruiting, etc. If you don't want to spend the time to understand the plants that you're working with, then find a reliable source, grind together a hundred or so seeds, then start small and incrementally raise your dose from this now even mix.

Or, you can get the equipment like 69ron and test it yourself.

All kinds of ways...

Yea, I can understand that. Erowid seems very mainstream now days. The trip report I was recalling, this kid found these seeds growing wildly, and many people do stumble across the flower and consume it to get high. So yea thats why I said you MIGHT be able to judge potency if you grow it yourself.