Does freebase harmalas isolate cause nausea?

[soul-explorer]

Hi,


I have some freebase harmalas isolate, which is supposed to only contain the harmine and harmaline alkaloids purified from peganum harmala seeds.


I'm planning to take this together with freebase DMT, would this still cause any nausea?



Thanks!

 

[pitubo]

Hi soul-explorer,

Purified harmala alkaloids cause much less gastrointestinal upset than raw seeds do. But that does not mean that the harmala alkaloids will have no somatic effects other than stopping the breakdown of dmt - it affects more or less the entire body's metabolism of mono-amines, not just limited to dmt. So, do not be surprised if you notice e.g. a bloated feeling (that's how I describe it) when ingesting a significant dose of purified harmala alkaloids, that is to be expected. Still this does not compare to the nausea caused by raw seeds. Apart from tannins and phenols, the rue seeds also contain quinazoline alkaloids such as vasicine. These may cause uterine distress in females, or even trigger an abortion.

If you want to ingest the freebase harmala alkaloids with freebase dmt, I suggest you read this post I recently made about salting freebase for oral consumption. When using purified extracts, I strongly recommend ingesting the harmala and dmt together. Some people pre-dose some extra harmalas, but IMHO that is optional.

 

[soul-explorer]

Hi soul-explorer,
...

If you want to ingest the freebase harmala alkaloids with freebase dmt, I suggest you read this post I recently made about salting freebase for oral consumption. When using purified extracts, I strongly recommend ingesting the harmala and dmt together. Some people pre-dose some extra harmalas, but IMHO that is optional.

Hi also!

I have pure ascorbic acid in powder form here, could I put that in one glass together with the freebase DMT and the freebase harmala?

I wonder if that would potentially be "safer" than using orange juice (that will have much more components, and therefore is more likely to upset the stomach?)

 

[pitubo]

Should be fine too. Don't overdo the ascorbic acid or you'll have diarrhea (the reason why vitamin C is the least toxic of vitamins: you'll simply "expel" any overdose.)

The problems with orange juice I don't recognize, but I won't dismiss them either. It could be related to the amount of orange juice used. Personally, I don't like orange juice from concentrate very much anyway. If I drink it, I preferably dilute it 1:1 with water. I do like freshly pressed orange juice though.

 

[soul-explorer]

I have a Vitamix,

Could buy a couple of oranges and make some orange-smoothie out of it.

 

[Infectedstyle]

I recall that ~100mg's of harmala or harmaline freebase, I don't remember which one; can produce intense nausea, pains, headache. Especially when taken in short-span of another dose.. I realize I am sensitive but just be careful. It's not a pleasant feeling. I have a thought that dmt helps 'heal' .. But I'd start low with the harmalas first just to test waters. I suppose smoking has less nausea.

 

[Infectedstyle]

I think my body simply has a lot of oxidants built up somewhere in the skull. I recommend doing antioxidants, yoga if you have similar problems. Vegan diet, maybe?

 

[pitubo]

I recall that ~100mg's of harmala or harmaline freebase, I don't remember which one; can produce intense nausea, pains, headache. Especially when taken in short-span of another dose.

Ehmm, I'm not a doctor, but that sounds like you are either extremely sensitive or allergic or did not follow dietary precautions. Especially the pains and headache shouldn't be part of the regular harmala experience at 100 mg dosage levels.

 

[Jees]

To help the FB dissolve in an acidic water (if it needed some help), then warming it up a bit works for me + some swirling.

 

[Infectedstyle]

Yes, I'm not very sensitive to some of it's psychedelic effects. It's somatic effect is rampant in me. Perhaps I have a lot of serotonin or too little. This also happens with Kratom, taken in concusive days it becomes excruciatingly painful. This also happens when I take either medicine by itself.. Unfortunately, as I love both of them equally well.

So, while not many people will have trouble. Take caution as some physiologies are different.

I recall that ~100mg's of harmala or harmaline freebase, I don't remember which one; can produce intense nausea, pains, headache. Especially when taken in short-span of another dose.

Ehmm, I'm not a doctor, but that sounds like you are either extremely sensitive or allergic or did not follow dietary precautions. Especially the pains and headache shouldn't be part of the regular harmala experience at 100 mg dosage levels.

 

[pitubo]

I'm still not a doctor, but in your case, I'd say that not using any kind of potentially interacting substance, be it kratom, mdma or even coffee for three days prior to harmala consumption may help with these symptoms. MAOIs may interact with the least expected of substances: I've been surprised by the feverish effect caused by a handful of "kokindjes" licorice candy consumed carelessly in the hours preceding a pharmahuasca session.

On that note, it should be considered that Amazonian medicine men use the caapi vine not exclusively to have "visions", as is common here on the forum, but more generally to investigate the workings and effects on the body and mind of various plants/substances available to them in their habitat. Harmalas can strongly potentiate the effects of substances in foods.

In any case: be careful, be safe!

 

[Infectedstyle]

:thumb_up:

I've gone vegetarian since a week. In that time I used to eat Döner Kebab from Thuisbezorgd. Once a month. it has an immense effect, body and psyche. I am positive this is the reason for my reaction to it. I will try again and get back to you.

 

[soul-explorer]

Just some update, I did undertake a journey last evening and will also write a full trip report on this separately.

I did not eat any fatty foods 36hours prior to this. And on this day, I only had a huge smoothie (bananas, grapes, greens) around noon before drinking the medicine.

I dosed:

250mg freebase harmala isolate +
70mg freebase DMT

together into about 250ml of orange juice.

The harmalas seemed to dissolve very easily and quickly. the DMT however took a long time.
I followed the advice by Jees and heated the glass up in a water-bath and did about 10-20min of swirling, I could still see some DMT fragments floating around, but I think it mostly dissolved.


I drank this rather quickly and right after prepared another smoothie consisting out of four bananas to activate digestion.

Could only finish half of it however, since it was hitting me hard just 20minutes after drinking the OJ!
Had a very intense comeup and quite intense tripping for the next 4hours.

Was so happy that I did not had to purge, came close once but only felt better the more time passed on.


Thanks everyone for your advice!

Taking the harmalas and DMT together seems to work very well for me. Pretty sure the empty stomach and dietary restriction beforehand also helped.

 

[TGO]

Just some update, I did undertake a journey last evening and will also write a full trip report on this separately.

I did not eat any fatty foods 36hours prior to this. And on this day, I only had a huge smoothie (bananas, grapes, greens) around noon before drinking the medicine.

I dosed:

250mg freebase harmala isolate +
70mg freebase DMT

together into about 250ml of orange juice.

The harmalas seemed to dissolve very easily and quickly. the DMT however took a long time.
I followed the advice by Jees and heated the glass up in a water-bath and did about 10-20min of swirling, I could still see some DMT fragments floating around, but I think it mostly dissolved.


I drank this rather quickly and right after prepared another smoothie consisting out of four bananas to activate digestion.

Could only finish half of it however, since it was hitting me hard just 20minutes after drinking the OJ!
Had a very intense comeup and quite intense tripping for the next 4hours.

Was so happy that I did not had to purge, came close once but only felt better the more time passed on.


Thanks everyone for your advice!

Taking the harmalas and DMT together seems to work very well for me. Pretty sure the empty stomach and dietary restriction beforehand also helped.

Very nice! Looking forward to reading the full report! I love pharmahuasca, in fact, I'd go so far as to say that it has become my favorite route of administration! Thank you for sharing!

 

[Jees]

...I followed the advice by Jees and heated the glass up in a water-bath and did about 10-20min of swirling, I could still see some DMT fragments floating around, but I think it mostly dissolved...

I'm used to go with HCL instead of FB harmalas, it might be possible that 250 mg of FB + 70mg spice had the pH of the OJ out of enough acid range. Some OJ's are more acid that others.
Personally I put it in a dash of water and do concentrated lemon juice on it, swirl, and check pH with a paper, it happens with too less juice that pH goes up. Enough juice takes it to pH 2. When you heat that (I use a blasphemic microwave) it should really dissolve all in few (1 to 5) minutes swirling. My drink volume is like 30 - max40 ml or so. Sometimes a tea spoon honey after.