Does mindset affect the DMT experience or just the interpretation of it?

[JamesLove]

In other words, if one is in a good mood one would probably have a higher probability of enjoying their DMT trip. However, if one is in a bad mood would it affect what actually occurs in the trip itself? Or would it probably be the same trip but just have more of a tendency to freak the user out?

The relevance of this question is if DMT radically affects the actual experience itself, rather than just how much the user enjoys the trip, this would suggest that the DMT experience is a manifestation of one's mind more rather than a key to an alternative dimension/whatever.

All insights on this subject would be appreciated. I am not putting forth any dogmatic theory here, but merely pointing out an apparent inconsistency which has troubled me.

 

[ragabr]

What apparent inconsistency do you refer to?

 

[JamesLove]

Well if DMT is really accessing different dimensions/whatnot, then one's mindset theoretically should not affect the actual experience itself.

 

[gibran2]

...if one is in a good mood one would probably have a higher probability of enjoying their DMT trip. However, if one is in a bad mood would it affect what actually occurs in the trip itself? Or would it probably be the same trip but just have more of a tendency to freak the user out?

I can only speak about my personal experiences – my most difficult experiences have come out of the blue. I always enter in a reasonably good mood, same setting, etc. Maybe it’s related more to dose? I’ve had two very difficult experiences, and they were difficult because I wasn’t prepared to see what I saw – I saw “too much” if that makes any sense.

If mood going in was a good predictor of the nature of the experience, then there would be a lot less pre-launch anxiety, at least for me. It’s very unpredictable.

A few times I’ve dosed while in a bad mood – dealing with family problems. The experiences weren’t enjoyable, but they were very helpful with respect to the problems I was dealing with. They helped me to see things more clearly and to accept things that I was having trouble accepting.

 

[Steely]

In other words, if one is in a good mood one would probably have a higher probability of enjoying their DMT trip. However, if one is in a bad mood would it affect what actually occurs in the trip itself? Or would it probably be the same trip but just have more of a tendency to freak the user out?

The relevance of this question is if DMT radically affects the actual experience itself, rather than just how much the user enjoys the trip, this would suggest that the DMT experience is a manifestation of one's mind more rather than a key to an alternative dimension/whatever.

All insights on this subject would be appreciated. I am not putting forth any dogmatic theory here, but merely pointing out an apparent inconsistency which has troubled me.

Set and setting play major parts within ones experience of, Spice. If the user is at a lack of a comfortable state, it means quite a few things, but one possibility is that they are agitated, or upset for what ever reason, and because of such have a very deeply clouded mind over the reason, and are just looking to escape into hyperspace to help them relax.

This would otherwise be deemed, in my book, mistreatment of Spice. Going to spice for the wrong reasons would either make, in my experience, the entities angry, or as an effect from smoking Spice, nothing occur at all.

The theory that we go to another dimension is just like any other idea, simply something that people, through experience, say to help bring the actual experience of being there, down to a physical plain of existence for either themselves or everyone else to understand.

I am, and life is; Spice is Spice, and there is no need to understand it further.

 

[ragabr]

Well if DMT is really accessing different dimensions/whatnot, then one's mindset theoretically should not affect the actual experience itself.

Nonsense. Do we say, "If one actually goes to the beach, then one's mindset theoretically should not affect the actual experience itself"? Subjective state affects every experience. Look into findings regarding state-based memory effects or stereotype biasing effects on standardized tests.

You also ignore the point that many (most?) experience hyperspace as a medium of communication. Clearly our mindset directs the outcome of conversations.

 

[Felnik]

After many journeys i am of the mindset that at the deeper levels there is a separation from this reality.


I have thought much and discussed this subject and realized that DMT can be an intense amplifier of sorts.

The realm that we get into is so alien and intense that even the slightest bit of fear or disharmony in our psych can
create a feedback loop wich can spin out of control.

Likewise the openness of a good mindset can allow a certain freedom to explore without fear.

just as negativity can be amplified positive feelings and love can also be amplified.

Our mindset does effect the experience. I don't believe that it necissarily means that its a simple manifestation of the mind.

We as humans are always trying to find meaning in all things this is no exception.
Unlike many I want to understand whats happening.

 

[clearlyone]

Well if DMT is really accessing different dimensions/whatnot, then one's mindset theoretically should not affect the actual experience itself.

... Subjective state affects every experience.

Could we stretch a bit farther, attempt to wring out the duality... perhaps it is Subjectivity that creates the experience, and experience is identical with Subjectivity. Perhaps infinite dimensions exist within Mind as potential, some of which feature a character that debates the reality of other dimensions it explores with the aid of strange thing called spice.:d

 

[kyrolima]

You want to debunk DMT?

Noone cares, if we actually dream or visit another reality.
DMT produces trips which can not be described by language.
Why should we try to define what reality is. You can't even define your own reality at the moment.
Everything is just interpretation of your limited mind.
DMT opens the gates.

Thank you :surprised and have a nice DMT-experience

 

[JamesLove]

"You want to debunk DMT?"
No, I want to find the truth. If it debunks DMT and irks the true believers, than so be it. If it proves DMT accesses other dimensions and irks the non-drug crowd, than so be it.

"Noone cares, if we actually dream or visit another reality."
I, for one, care. I doubt I am the only person on this planet who would be interested in the answer whether DMT really accesses another reality rather than it being merely "in the mind".

 

[clouds]

"Noone cares, if we actually dream or visit another reality."
I, for one, care. I doubt I am the only person on this planet who would be interested in the answer whether DMT really accesses another reality rather than it being merely "in the mind".

You are definitely NOT alone in your quest for truth

http://cottonwoodresearch.org

 

[clearlyone]

clouds, thank you for the reference. I had been aware of the University of Tuscon's consciousness studies program. But this, if it is funded and studies approved, is quite a good sign indeed.

I understand how initially hearing that 'it all might be in the mind' seems to cheapen the DMT experience. However, consider something larger than our personal mind. Not the brain but Mind with a capitol M. Could it be that this world, big bang to grape nuts for breakfast, is also within Mind. If this is so, then the DMT universe is indeed exactly as real as this universe. Which is anything but cheap.

Of course the real questions are (for SWIM anyway) are: 'just how real is that?' and 'who or what is it that is experiencing either?'.

With Peace and Respect

 

[Global]

You want to debunk DMT?

Noone cares, if we actually dream or visit another reality.
DMT produces trips which can not be described by language.
Why should we try to define what reality is. You can't even define your own reality at the moment.
Everything is just interpretation of your limited mind.
DMT opens the gates.

Thank you :surprised and have a nice DMT-experience

If you really think no one cares if they're visiting another reality, then I think you're just not listening to what many here at the nexus are saying.

 

[gibran2]

There is no scientific way to prove that DMT experiences take us to other objective realities. There is currently no way to scientifically prove that DMT experiences are purely products of the mind – the imagination under the influence of a drug. The truth may be one or the other or both or neither.

Our entire understanding of objective reality comes from our subjective experiences of the world. There are certain very basic things about everyday reality that we can neither prove nor disprove. For example, maybe we’re all in a “Matrix” type computer simulation. How would you prove/disprove such a claim? Maybe “you” are an advanced being, and advanced beings have advanced dreams, so maybe you’re an advanced being dreaming. Again, no way to prove/disprove.

All we have is our subjective experiences to guide us. Some (not all) of my DMT experiences seem convincingly real. Even upon later critical examination and reflection, they still seem convincingly real. I believe they are real, just as I believe that my everyday life is real. They are as real as my everyday life. I can’t prove the reality of my DMT experiences, nor can I prove the reality of my everyday existence. I am certain of my subjective experiences, but cannot know their ultimate source. In the end, I am left with belief and nothing else.

There’s a very good talk by physicist Peter Russell called The Primacy of Consciousness. This link was originally posted by another Nexus member, but I can’t find the post, so to the OP: thanks for the link!

 

[JamesLove]

I am aware that I am playing a Fool's Game by trying to scientifically determine whether DMT is "real". However, I doubt that this will stop me (and probably many others) from continuing the quest as the potential payoff overcomes the low probability of success.

On a similiar note, one of the problems I have with respect to DMT is open eye visuals. In my experiences on non DMT-substances, I have seen the walls move around a bit and the sky turn into a Sistine Chapel kind of war scene for a bit. However, the whole time I was viewing this I was quite aware that this was not reality.

What has struck me about DMT is how the (vast?) majority of users claim it is "realer than real".

But here is the problem. There are tons of OEV reports which, in my opinion, sound suspiciously like my non-DMT experiences mentioned above. I kind of doubt that the walls move around in a DMT OEV. So if these visuals don't really happen, does this not cheapen the Closed Eye Experiences when one is thrust in hyperspace?

 

[DeMenTed]

The walls can move around during OEV'S, it depends on dosage imo. The open eye visuals are different than say lsd though, they are in a class of their own. Rather than things moving around and morphing things take on a 3d like appearance on dmt, figures can seem to lurk behind walls for example, like the wall will become translucent and you can see entities watching you from behind the walled veil, the clarity of mind added to these visuals make the whole wall moving about thing seem trivial.

The CEV'S aren't cheapened at all in hyperspace when compared to OEV'S, they are completely different. You sound like you havn't sampled dmt yet James, i would advise a trip tp hyperspace and then come back and tell us if you think the visions are real or not. My opinion is that they are real

 

[JamesLove]

No, I haven't tried it. That is why I am asking as I am curious.

So basically you are saying the OEVs are different than LSD. My next question (to everybody else) is do you think LSD visuals are not "real"? What about mushrooms? Salvia? Is there a dividing line? Is DMT unique or are some psychedlics "real" while others just mess with your brain synapses. Or all they all "real"?

 

[clearlyone]

I am aware that I am playing a Fool's Game by trying to scientifically determine whether DMT is "real". However, I doubt that this will stop me (and probably many others) from continuing the quest as the potential payoff overcomes the low probability of success

One can certainly envision experiments - even if none yet successful - at least publicly. Its not like some problems that by their nature cannot be tested. Synchronized hyperspace events (SHE) found here on the nexus, I believe originally had that tone. Verifiable communication between individuals could certainly be tested and if successful would constitute scientific proof. Now what the results will be - that's TBD - far as SWIM knows.

I kind of doubt that the walls move around in a DMT OEV. So if these visuals don't really happen, does this not cheapen the Closed Eye Experiences when one is thrust in hyperspace?

Ironically, just posted "Metatron and the folding ceiling" Metatron and the folding ceiling - First steps in Hyperspace - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
Certainly for SWIMs OEV, the real world appeared to move and provide one of his most realistic and impacting experiences.

 

[clearlyone]

As to cheapening of CEV if OEVs dont actuallly change things in the real world ... SWIM doesnt know how to justify this ... but absolutely not in his opinion.

Rather OEV helps bridge the worlds, adds more reality to the visuals. SWIM has also had interesting OEV within nature where trees and fields interacted with hyperspace grids and energy flows. This adds to the reality of the experience. As if your seeing something hidden Within reality.

SWIM now pursues OEV specifically for this integrating effect.

 

[DeMenTed]

No, I haven't tried it. That is why I am asking as I am curious.

So basically you are saying the OEVs are different than LSD. My next question (to everybody else) is do you think LSD visuals are not "real"? What about mushrooms? Salvia? Is there a dividing line? Is DMT unique or are some psychedlics "real" while others just mess with your brain synapses. Or all they all "real"?

The OEV'S are different from lsd i think, they are more like mushroom visuals, that sort of organic natural feel to them.
With salvia the experience doesn't feel real to me the way dmt does, in salvialand nothing seems real to me at all and when i come back i ask myself if normal reality is "real" it takes a minute or so but real reality steps in and re-assures me
With dmt i can see both realities living side by side.

I'm going to experiment with liberty cap shrooms soon and i will be better positioned to say if the shroom visuals are real or are just visuals, i haven't had shrooms in a good few years and i think i would be able to understand them better now that ive trid dmt.