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Dr. Martin Ball - Entheogenicist

Migrated topic.
Anybody else receive sinister vibes from that video?

I think everyone let's their experiences get the better of themselves from time to time, it's all apart of the destruction/reconstruction process. I know I have been guilty of this in the past. I have never known anyone to take it to such extreme lengths as Martin though to the point where everyone but himself is incorrect and misguided. That the drugs he uses are better than the drugs other people use. That's some pretty bizarre stuff:?

If everyone is god, then we all must be perfectly fine the way we are. Unless god is a big failure and the only successful creation to ever be made is in fact Martin himself! Haha

I think we are growing at the only pace possible.
 
UniverseCannon said:
How is this any less mystical or magical than a million stories just like it that have been heard for many thousands of years? And how come he doesn't once consider that none of this is "ego projection", or just an aspect of his own mind, or something else? Sounds like he was so open that his brain fell out.. So he had a mystical/psychedelic sober experience, or whatever you want to call it..woopty doo..tons of people here, and all throughout history, have had these. An example is shamans who have even been known to be able to smoke some mapacho, sing an icaro, and bring in the visions while 'sober'. this post-psychedelic contact with that state of mind doesn't mean they are necessarily talking to god, (take a look into how meta-programming works). He naively swallows without question the first idea that its god, and doesn't even consider any other possibilities..not even his favorite diagnosis; ego projection. And now he is trying to sell us 'confused egos' THE ANSWER from his god state of non-ego existance.. Give me a breakl..this sounds like a sheer sign of psychedelic-jesus-syndrome. Is it any coincidence that Martin then denounces everyone who doesn't agree with him as having big egos?
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LOL!! His brain has definitely fallen out! That was hilarious, Thanks :lol:


I have to work with a guy just like this. He is the biggest egomaniac. He actually said this to me once and I quote: "I am the only man to walk the earth in 2000 years that fully understands the Truth."

I wonder what would happen if these two met.
 
Ah my bad, I read it "I have to work with a guy like this" as in (s)he just HAS to meet this guy in real life.

I edited out the post as it seemed kind of embarrassing now:oops: lol
 
Yeah, I meant my co-worker. He really thinks he's the next Messiah or something. I don't think he does 5-meo-dmt but he does like mushrooms.
 
There must be something that is threatening about Martin to most of you.. This is the second thread in regards to Martin that has stirred up so much interest and controversy.. why not just disregard him if you don't believe him?.. Why does it matter so much to all of you to disprove him?.. and if you want to disprove him, why don't you take a look at his theories (outside of his perspective on Terrance) and start there.

His theories MAKE SENSE. He explains it very well in his book. It is a simple unified theory of reality.. to put it simply, his perspective is that We are God, We are Reality, Evolution is fractal, We are One, We can be our own shamans, there is no duality, there is no afterlife and there is no "spirit world" (this is the hardest one for egos to come to terms with). These aren't new concepts, but the way he explains it in his book makes perfect sense to me. A lot of religions already believe in some of these concepts, but they are ALL filled with fantasy and mythology, which is unnecessary.. and religions disregard scientific findings, which his book DOES take into account.

He isn't trying to be some cult leader.. He is trying to help people help themselves. In his book he gives instructions on how to work with the medicines ON YOUR OWN to align yourself with authenticity without a shaman.

I know my opinion won't change any of your perspectives, but all I ask if for you all to look deeper into it than you are. I personally am greatly thankful for his work. I know I am the only one backing him up, but I wouldn't do so if I didn't authentically feel that his work IS important.

Is it REALLY that far fetched for a person to understand reality? Why does it have to be complicated? There is no duality, Everything is ONE, We are ONE, We are God... that is it!
 
Yes, Cloud, something seems threatening about Dr. Martin Ball, Ph.D. to me.
It is that he claims that:
A) There is one objective reality which all human beings can potentially understand as such.
B) He understands it well enough to impart this understanding to other people, and he will do this for a lot of money by guiding them through a psychedelic experience.

This seems threatening to me because, foremost among many other reasons, I do not believe in certainty without proof, and constructing an internally consistant theory based on unprovable premises (so thats what he needed that doctorate for...) is no proof of anything except for deep-seated, delusional arrogance.

Believe me, I do not take umbrage at his experiencing the world in his own way, or at your faith in his theory. In fact, I believe that if it leads you to feel more at peace with the (imho) indifferent universe, then more power to you. That goes for any belief or any theory, regardless of how far it is from my own beliefs.
Regardless, I am deeply offended by both the nature of his assertion and the manner in which he presents it. (sells it, if you will) I think cellux drew a brilliant metaphor for his relative view of himself and other people. (post #87 I believe...excellent post all around)

The set of possibilities about human beings and their relation to the universe is infinite. The theory that Dr. Martin Ball, Ph.D. posits is certainly a possibility. From what I understand, however, there is not nearly enough factual evidence or even anecdotal evidence for him to be so certain about his weltanschauung. (sorry, i couldn't resist using that word...not intended to assert linguistic superiority :roll:)
The validity of a world-view, as far as I've experienced, has very little to do with how it makes a person feel. If you have time, I recommend reading "On Being Certain", by Robert A. Burton. He makes a very compelling case based on neuroscience, psychology, for the idea that the feeling of certitude has absolutely no correlation with a logical conclusion. Dr. Martin Ball, Ph.D. does not seem to grasp or believe this.

Also quite relevant is Nietzsche's "The Gay Science," specifically The teachers of the purpose of existence. I believe Nietzsche is applying the intellectual scythe to people just like Dr. Martin Ball, Ph.D. (cutting "the teachers of the purpose of existence" down to size) Some nice food for thought in that whole work, and imho it was brilliantly written.

Also, just below me, endlessness makes an excellent point.
This ends up defeating the movement because in the eye of the establishment it goes to show that psychedelics can make people deluded.
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Did you read what I said, and as well as what others say, cloud? This isnt about us vs him or vs you. This is a thread about someone taking psychedelics and claiming to have found The Truth. We have pointed out several inconsistencies in his theory, you are being the mediator between us and him and his answers are flawed, so of course we are going to post in this thread in the dmt nexus when his poor answers are directed at us.

Also I think these kind of actions are worrying because it only serves to de-legitimize the sane and down-to-earth part of the psychedelic movement when an enlightened-guru-wannabe starts claiming to have The Truth and actually come off as a deluded person with an amazingly inflated ego, who doesnt give evidence to any of his beliefs and conveniently avoids the thoughtful criticism to his work. This ends up defeating the movement because in the eye of the establishment it goes to show that psychedelics can make people deluded.

But yes, as someone said, time will tell.. I have a clear conscience that we at the Nexus are humbly doing good work and I think the errors of Martin Ball's positions are pretty clear, but each one to his own, actions speak for themselves ;)
 
Firstly why won't you consider the points endlessness has made?

And yes, I think he may be a problem. He is evidence that psychedelics cause delusions of grandeur.

The evidence for his truth is based on his own subjective fantasies. He takes science out of context and considers himself beyond error.

His "scientific" tool is the flawless precision of his own deluded mind.
 
endlessness said:
Did you read what I said, and as well as what others say, cloud? This isnt about us vs him or vs you. This is a thread about someone taking psychedelics and claiming to have found The Truth. We have pointed out several inconsistencies in his theory, you are being the mediator between us and him and his answers are flawed, so of course we are going to post in this thread in the dmt nexus when his poor answers are directed at us.

Also I think these kind of actions are worrying because it only serves to de-legitimize the sane and down-to-earth part of the psychedelic movement when an enlightened-guru-wannabe starts claiming to have The Truth and actually come off as a deluded person with an amazingly inflated ego, who doesnt give evidence to any of his beliefs and conveniently avoids the thoughtful criticism to his work. This ends up defeating the movement because in the eye of the establishment it goes to show that psychedelics can make people deluded.

But yes, as someone said, time will tell.. I have a clear conscience that we at the Nexus are humbly doing good work and I think the errors of Martin Ball's positions are pretty clear, but each one to his own, actions speak for themselves ;)
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If he is right, is he still delusional? Like I asked before, is it really that hard to understand reality?.. His theories are simple, straightforward, and actually make sense.
 
The biggest problem i see is that he is selling illegal psychedelic experiences for 200 dollars a pop. If he got caught, it would really be bringing the wrong type of attention to these plants and molecules we all love- and selling them in itself, whether or not he gets caught, already brings the wrong type of attention to them
 
Cloud, I feel like im repeating myself, either im very bad at communicating or you're not listening to what im (we're) saying... Did you read all we said about his incoherencies? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. He is the one making claims of finding The Truth and being against all other "lower" beliefs. Burden of evidence is on him. He is the one using words like "energy" unscientifically and making claims about levels of alignment that with his method one can get if you pay him enough and yet with no proof except fancy words and misleading arguments. Why should we believe him any more than any other person that claims they are jesus and makes evidence-less claims? There are many convincing pseudo prophets out there with self-consistent models...

Maybe his theories make sense to you, but to me as I've expressed over and over they seem flawed, inconsistent and making way too broad comments without any testable hypothesis and predictions to even be called theory.

Plus the flaws in character that seem to show up from his words are potentially harmful to our community and psychedelic movement.
 
Cloud said:
If he is right, is he still delusional? Like I asked before, is it really that hard to understand reality?.. His theories are simple, straightforward, and actually make sense.
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To answer your first question, no, obviously if his theory is correct and he truly has become God and can show others how to (for only 200 american dollars) then by definition he is not delusional.
To attempt an answer at your second question, yes, I personally find it quite difficult to understand reality. I would also be extremely wary of anyone who claims to, and claims to be able to convey this understanding in exchange for a large sum of money.

But when you say "His theories are simple, straightforward, and actually make sense." (Over and over and over again) I begin to doubt your own right-mindedness. In all honesty, without the least trace of condescension, I am worried for your well-being. How can you correlate the simplistic straightforwardness and internal consistency of a theory with its validity?

But you're right, there is obviously the possibility that he (and you) are enlightened, have become one with the universe, and are now part of the universal God. It's not hard for me to accept the possibility of that, but as of yet it is nearly impossible for me to accept the truth of it.
 
endlessness said:
Cloud, I feel like im repeating myself, either im very bad at communicating or you're not listening to what im saying... Did you read all we said about his incoherencies? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. He is the one making claims of finding The Truth and being against all other "lower" beliefs. Burden of evidence is on him. He is the one using words like "energy" and making claims about levels of alignment that with his method one can get if you pay him enough. Why should we believe him any more than any other person that claims they are jesus and makes evidence-less claims?

Maybe his theories make sense to you, but to me as I've expressed over and over they seem flawed, inconsistent and making way too broad comments without any testable hypothesis and predictions to even be called theory.

Plus the flaws in character that seem to show up from his words are harmful for our community and psychedelic movement.
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Sorry, I may have missed something..

Which extraordinary claims are you referring to exactly? (outside of claiming to know the truth)

His explanation of energy makes sense to me.. his perspective is that we all come from the same source, which was an energy of some form. Everything is energy, and that energy is all connected.. therefore we are all connected to that same energy. There is no scientific evidence to back this up, but by logic it makes sense.
 
Cloud said:
...

His theories MAKE SENSE. He explains it very well in his book. It is a simple unified theory of reality.. to put it simply, his perspective is that We are God, We are Reality, Evolution is fractal, We are One, We can be our own shamans, there is no duality, there is no afterlife and there is no "spirit world" (this is the hardest one for egos to come to terms with). These aren't new concepts, but the way he explains it in his book makes perfect sense to me. A lot of religions already believe in some of these concepts, but they are ALL filled with fantasy and mythology, which is unnecessary.. and religions disregard scientific findings, which his book DOES take into account.

...

Is it REALLY that far fetched for a person to understand reality? Why does it have to be complicated? There is no duality, Everything is ONE, We are ONE, We are God... that is it!
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His theories DO NOT MAKE SENSE. How much more clearly can it be stated?

He claims that “god” is “a fractal energy being”. I’ve previously stated that 95% of the universe is composed of something that is neither energy nor matter. His theory cannot account for 95% of the observable universe. How does he explain that 95% of the universe?

Just because an idea resonates, sounds good, is easy to understand, and is psychologically satisfying doesn’t make it true!

It is not possible for living human beings to know the “ultimate” nature of reality. This isn’t a belief, it’s a fact: An observer in a closed system cannot know what lies outside of that system. Most of the universe (more than 99.9%) is too far away from Earth for us to observe – the light from these regions won’t reach the Earth for billions of years. We are effectively in a closed system. We cannot say what lies beyond the small portion of the universe that is observable. This isn’t philosophy or metaphysics, it is a physical, inescapable fact.
 
gibran2 said:
Cloud said:
...

His theories MAKE SENSE. He explains it very well in his book. It is a simple unified theory of reality.. to put it simply, his perspective is that We are God, We are Reality, Evolution is fractal, We are One, We can be our own shamans, there is no duality, there is no afterlife and there is no "spirit world" (this is the hardest one for egos to come to terms with). These aren't new concepts, but the way he explains it in his book makes perfect sense to me. A lot of religions already believe in some of these concepts, but they are ALL filled with fantasy and mythology, which is unnecessary.. and religions disregard scientific findings, which his book DOES take into account.

...

Is it REALLY that far fetched for a person to understand reality? Why does it have to be complicated? There is no duality, Everything is ONE, We are ONE, We are God... that is it!
Click to expand...
His theories DO NOT MAKE SENSE. How much more clearly can it be stated?

He claims that “god” is “a fractal energy being”. I’ve previously stated that 95% of the universe is composed of something that is neither energy nor matter. His theory cannot account for 95% of the observable universe. How does he explain that 95% of the universe?

Just because an idea resonates, sounds good, is easy to understand, and is psychologically satisfying doesn’t make it true!

It is not possible for living human beings to know the “ultimate” nature of reality. This isn’t a belief, it’s a fact: An observer in a closed system cannot know what lies outside of that system. Most of the universe (more than 99.9%) is too far away from Earth for us to observe – the light from these regions won’t reach the Earth for billions of years. We are effectively in a closed system. We cannot say what lies beyond the small portion of the universe that is observable. This isn’t philosophy or metaphysics, it is a physical, inescapable fact.
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That is actually a very good point. I sent him a message a little while ago asking him about this.. hopefullly he responds.
 
i admire your loyalty cloud, but i think you are backing the wrong horse. in the most simple breakdown of this entire thread, i ask you this simple question:

if martin ball understands reality and THE TRUTH so completely, why does he come off as such a fop? there is nothing IN HIS BEHAVIOR OR LIFE that rings of an enlightened being.

he can pass judgement all day long and tell everyone with the patience to listen that he has the answer, but does he live like a person who has the answer.

no. he does not.

the proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes. martin ball's pudding sucks. straight up.

L&G
 
I'm not a FIRM believer in his concepts, but I do appreciate them.. I do agree with you guys that some of his concepts might be flawed.. And if there is a single flaw, he doesn't understand the true nature of reality.

I hope he gives me another follow up response to the questions I sent him.
 
I have no problem with Martin theorizing whatever he pleases, the issue I see is the negative attention he will draw to the community. It's been stated before but he's publicly doing some things many do not agree with, and it will put these substances at risk.
 
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