ehum.....DMT and the Pineal.

[User 18517]

Pineal calcification is real, for the record.

pineal gland calcify autopsy - Recherche Google

 

[Alev-Kev]

Long overdue to post HERE: Serotonin is now confirmed to be produced almost entirely in the gut and then transported via CSF to the brain, where it is also sent to the Pineal gland to be methylated into MELATONIN in response to Light. The same chemical operation on MELATONIN produces DMT. The pineal gland also produces it's own MAO, Pinoline. So, in speculative science we can see that not only is it possible, but it is probable that DMT is produced in the pineal and other human tissues. The lungs have the enzyme that triggers conversion, as well, as a recent study confirmed. I'm of the mind that as the "science" is able to explain HOW it happens, now, the ANCIENTS have known and practiced in such a way that shows they KNEW more than we do. We are CONFIRMING knowledge that other cultures have and practice without "western" understanding of it. IMHO....

 

[Lumina]

as a recent study confirmed

Can you please provide proof of scientific data, reasearch papers or studies for that which you assert? Sure it sounds very good in theory, but until now we know most of these theories are only speculations.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Long overdue to post HERE: Serotonin is now confirmed to be produced almost entirely in the gut and then transported via CSF to the brain, where it is also sent to the Pineal gland to be methylated into MELATONIN in response to Light. The same chemical operation on MELATONIN produces DMT.

Not so. Conversion of melatonin to N,N-DMT will not occur. Removal of the phenolic oxygen is simply too difficult. Melatonin does get deacetylated after which it can be methylated by INMT to produce 5-MeODMT. INMT will also produce N,N-DMT if tryptamine is available as its substrate. But the enzyme that produces 5-methoxytryptamine from serotonin, 5-HIOMT, is different.

The pineal gland also produces it's own MAO, Pinoline. So, in speculative science we can see that not only is it possible, but it is probable that DMT is produced in the pineal and other human tissues. The lungs have the enzyme that triggers conversion, as well, as a recent study confirmed.[...]

It is a certainty that DMT is produced in some human tissues. Under normal circumstances the equilibrium quantity is tiny, thus any contribution made by the pineal is going to be the equivalent of "a microscopic dot on a microscopic dot" given that the pineal itself is pretty tiny.

There are plenty of good arguments to support the lungs as being the main organ in the human body capable of producing DMT in physiologically significant quantities. The DMT-pineal hypothesis is effectively dead and buried. The 5-MeODMT-pineal hypothesis is another matter, however.

 

[dreamer042]

Long overdue to post HERE: Serotonin is now confirmed to be produced almost entirely in the gut and then transported via CSF to the brain, where it is also sent to the Pineal gland to be methylated into MELATONIN in response to Light. The same chemical operation on MELATONIN produces DMT.

Not so. Conversion of melatonin to N,N-DMT will not occur. Removal of the phenolic oxygen is simply too difficult. Melatonin does get deacetylated after which it can be methylated by INMT to produce 5-MeODMT. INMT will also produce N,N-DMT if tryptamine is available as its substrate. But the enzyme that produces 5-methoxytryptamine from serotonin, 5-HIOMT, is different.

This is correct, Melatonin > DMT is not a valid pathway. Serotonin > Bufotenine is valid pathway and Serotonin > N-acetylserotonin > Melatonin > Mexamine > 5-MeO-DMT is a valid pathway.

The pineal gland also produces it's own MAO, Pinoline. So, in speculative science we can see that not only is it possible, but it is probable that DMT is produced in the pineal and other human tissues. The lungs have the enzyme that triggers conversion, as well, as a recent study confirmed.[...]

It is a certainty that DMT is produced in some human tissues. Under normal circumstances the equilibrium quantity is tiny, thus any contribution made by the pineal is going to be the equivalent of "a microscopic dot on a microscopic dot" given that the pineal itself is pretty tiny.

There are plenty of good arguments to support the lungs as being the main organ in the human body capable of producing DMT in physiologically significant quantities. The DMT-pineal hypothesis is effectively dead and buried. The 5-MeODMT-pineal hypothesis is another matter, however.

Dr. Nichols gave a presentation at the most recent Breaking Convention conference wherein he elucidated very clearly why DMT will never reach psychoactive levels in human metabolism. However, I'd say his evidence just makes a stronger case for 5-MeO-DMT as the molecule of interest in endogenous altered states.

[YOUTUBE]

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Thanks, dreamer, for posting what I thought I was going to have to post!

 

[benzyme]

thank you for reaffirming what I've said for years: there is no removing anything from the 5-position, even in the pineal.
I figured pinoline was the suspect, as a logical metabolite of melatonin. refer to KREBS for the pathway

 

[Alev-Kev]

This is a clip from it

If MeOwwwww is a good time to state that whether its N,N or MeO, its STILL Dmt. MeOwww, I'm not trying to be difficult, but I think its cool to put "science" on it ear, a bit. We MeOwww know that we have endogenous DMT, with absolute certainty, and the most-likely culprit is MeO and the lessers of the same i.e. psilocybin, psilocin, N,N etc.... while maybe not endogenous, but, indeed, have a beneficial PURPOSE to human development. Sorry to be half-sciency and excited about these things. For me, its just the feeling of 'Its MeOwww or Never" and in all my dips into Hyperspace I've yet to have "THE" experience that some refer to as the ONE they searched for. Don't get me wrong, MeOwww, I've had transformative experiences, that have helped to change my life. So, MeOwww, I'll have to seek the MeO and journey into Its realms, as well. :twisted: don't judge me, lol:grin:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Your onomastic sloppiness is not appreciated. It could kill you in the lab.

 

[Alev-Kev]

Your onomastic sloppiness is not appreciated. It could kill you in the lab.

What in all the realms does THAT mean? Proper Names? I'm not IN the lab. FFS stop being overly serious for no reason. Jeez.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Your onomastic sloppiness is not appreciated. It could kill you in the lab.

What in all the realms does THAT mean? Proper Names? I'm not IN the lab. FFS stop being overly serious for no reason. Jeez.

Another classic fail for humour on the internet.

whether its N,N or MeO, its STILL Dmt.

All I'm really saying is that equating 5-MeO-DMT with N,N-DMT is like, well, saying any other two similar but different compounds are the same. Like NaCl and HCl for example. Thus such confusion could be dangerous. And smoking a dose of 5-MeO weighed out as though it were N,N-DMT could also be dangerous. Granted, we're talking about endogenous compounds and their occurrence (if not formation) in the pineal gland but I still feel it warrants the distinction.

Anyhow, would you care to elaborate on this bit?

the most-likely culprit is MeO and the lessers of the same i.e. psilocybin, psilocin, N,N etc.... while maybe not endogenous, but, indeed, have a beneficial PURPOSE to human development.

It is interesting that we've got a range DMT derivatives to explore. Wherein lieth the key that you seek?

Have a Great Dao!

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Here's the paper that relates to Nichols' presentation, in a thread of its very own:
N,N-dimethyltryptamine and the pineal gland: Separating fact from myth

 

[Neurospice]

Ladies and gentlemen. I think this debate just got a LOT more interesting.

http://www.neurophys.wisc.edu/~cozzi/Indolethylamine%20N-methyltransferase%20expression%20in%20primate%20nervous%20tissue.pdf

Peace


Thank you Ragabar for bringing this to my attention. Sorry I stole your thunder, but this is really good work that had to be shared.

This link seems to be broken, do you have a copy of it? I'd like to read it.

 

[blig-blug]

This link seems to be broken, do you have a copy of it? I'd like to read it.

Wayback Machine to the rescue: https://web.archive.org/web/2016020...rase expression in primate nervous tissue.pdf