ehum.....DMT and the Pineal.

[joedirt]

Ladies and gentlemen. I think this debate just got a LOT more interesting.

All three of the primate nervous tissues that were
tested displayed INMT immunoreactivity.

• In the pineal gland, the INMT signal was robust and
punctuate but did not colocalize with synaptophysin,
synaptotagmin-1, or nuclear DNA.

• Strong INMT immunoreactivity was detected in
retinal ganglion neurons and at synapses in the inner
and outer plexiform layers. Some INMT colocalized
with the synaptic vesicle protein synaptotagmin-1

• In agreement with earlier Northern studies in human
tissue, INMT immunoreactivity was detected in spinal
cord where it was localized in ventral horn
motoneurons.

• We conclude that INMT protein is expressed in some
primate central nervous system tissues. Whether
INMT expression is associated

http://www.neurophys.wisc.edu/~cozzi/Indolethylamine%20N-methyltransferase%20expression%20in%20primate%20nervous%20tissue.pdf

Peace


Thank you Ragabar for bringing this to my attention. Sorry I stole your thunder, but this is really good work that had to be shared.

 

[nen888]

..great find! ..thanks ragbar too..still studying it

if so there would therefore also be NMT (N-methyltryptamine), also synthesized from tryptamine by INMT (n-methyl-transferase), and as the metabolic pathway to DMT...

 

[obliguhl]

What could it mean in layman terms ?

 

[nen888]

..that DMT (and NMT) can be directly synthesized inside the pineal.. (not previously demonstrated)

 

[The Traveler]

This is pretty groundbreaking.

I was wondering though: Is there a publication date for this?


Kind regards,

The Traveler

p.s. I made this thread a sticky.

 

[actualfactual]

It says 2011 but I can't find the exact date

 

[The Traveler]

The PDF states November 8, 2011, 10:36:21 as the creation date/time. But that can be different from the official publication date.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[universecannon]

Very interesting

thanks joedirt!

 

[joedirt]

Here is a list of Cozzi's publications

http://www.neurophys.wisc.edu/~cozzi/publications.html

And from that page the linked abstract reference as well.

NV Cozzi, TA Mavlyutov, MA Thompson, AE Ruoho. Indolethylamine N-methyltransferase expression in primate nervous tissue. Soc. Neurosci. Abs., 37, 840.19 (2011)

I don't as of yet see a major journal publication around this work, but there can often be a delay of a year or more.

Peace.

 

[ragabr]

This PDF is for a poster session, where researchers present findings that are in the process of being written up. Since this just recently went up, it's unlikely to have been submitted for publication yet.

 

[BananaForeskin]

Whoa! The implications if the pineal DOES product DMT!

It makes sense, though-- a lot of Strassman's original theories about the role of DMT (I remember his radio/brain frequency metaphor) might well have some weight if the pineal does produce DMT.

 

[DoctorMantus]

This seems like a great discovery, thanks for sharing. Idk not know exactly what i can add except i am just as excited as many other here.

 

[kyrolima]

DMT produced in the Pineal Gland? Absolutely! I fully support this explanation!

 

[benzyme]

hmm, not so fast

• We conclude that INMT protein is expressed in some
primate central nervous system tissues. Whether
INMT expression is associated with the local
biosynthesis of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in neurons
remains to be investigated

this is consistent with Thomson et al. They determined by western blot analysis that
neural tissue expression was weak in comparison to peripheral tissue expression.
this study doesn't suggest [yet] that DMT biosynthesis originates in pineal gland tissue.

still, this in an interesting update in that area of study. if they could just demonstrate in vivo the biosynthesis of said ligands, it would be nothing short of monumental.

 

[Global]

still, this in an interesting update in that area of study. if they could just demonstrate in vivo the biosynthesis of said ligands, it would be nothing short of monumental.

If that happens, do we all jump back on the pineal train? :lol:

 

[joedirt]

hmm, not so fast

• We conclude that INMT protein is expressed in some
primate central nervous system tissues. Whether
INMT expression is associated with the local
biosynthesis of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in neurons
remains to be investigated

this is consistent with Thomson et al. They determined by western blot analysis that
neural tissue expression was weak in comparison to peripheral tissue expression.
this study doesn't suggest [yet] that DMT biosynthesis originates in pineal gland tissue.

still, this in an interesting update in that area of study. if they could just demonstrate in vivo the biosynthesis of said ligands, it would be nothing short of monumental.

Yeah I agree it's not a nail in the pineal coffin by a long shot, but I think we at a minimum we can agree that DMT is being produced in the CNS via the spine as a minimum right?


These studies potentially linking it to the pineal seem probably to me. This goes back to an argument I made long ago about mRNA potentially not being produced in the pineal at all times. mRNA is usually expressed when needed and then destroyed...from the mouth of the director of biology of the last company I worked in.

I still stand by my original hypothesis....that DMT will be shown to be produced in the brain. It's speculation and I could care less if I'm right or wrong, but the data still seems to be stacking that way to me.

Peace.

 

[joedirt]

"Biogenesis of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine in human pineal gland"

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-4159.1976.tb04456.x/full

Does anyone have this paper handy?

If 5-methoxy is produced in the pineal then it would seem pretty obvious the DMT would be as well. This is a very old paper though...so I want to see what it say's before jumping to conclusions.

Peace.

 

[benzyme]

I've posted the quote from Strassman before, from a 1990 manuscript; he basically stated
that enzymes which inhibit INMT expression are produced in the pineal. he likely meant 5-HIOMT.
the reason he said this, is akin to what I've said: metabolic products upstream inhibit enzymatic expression downstream. it's called feedback inhibition, a well-documented phenomenon in enzymology.

as for the spine...yes. several of the indoleacetic acid byproducts can be found there, and these are products found downstream from melatonin in the tryptophan metabolic pathway. so yea, it's more plausible.

 

[joedirt]

I've posted the quote from Strassman before, from a 1990 manuscript; he basically stated
that enzymes which inhibit INMT expression are produced in the pineal. he likely mean 5-HIOMT.
the reason he said this, is akin to what I've said: metabolic products upstream inhibit enzymatic expression downstream. it's called feedback inhibition, a well-documented and phenomenon in enzymology.

Yeah for sure.

It's also worth considering the possibility that trace amounts of tryptamine are n-meythylated by other enzymes that may have a much lower inhibition constant than INMT. I mean we are talking trace amounts here. Plus it's common to see a phenyl, benzyl, or napthal ring in place of a tryptophan ring in SAR. It's really not a big leap of faith to postulate a host of possible mechanism by which DMT could be generated via other n-methylating enzymes IMO.

Only time will tell of course.

Peace.

 

[benzyme]

If 5-methoxy is produced in the pineal then it would seem pretty obvious the DMT would be as well. This is a very old paper though...so I want to see what it say's before jumping to conclusions.

I probably can't get this paper, but I could tell you the 5-MeO products are from 5-HOIMT; they put methyl groups on the 5-position oxygen, rather than the terminal amine. perhaps bufotenine makes its way there, then 5-HOIMT puts the methyl on the 5-position oxygen (?)

no idea..it's all such a cool puzzle though