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Enlightenment

Migrated topic.
Well of course we'll run into the problem of "it being something different for everyone."

If people tell me "Hey man I am enlightened" I have a very, very difficult time believing them. If others claim it about someone, if he/she accepts it, I also take issue.

Maybe only you can know if you are in a state of enlightenment in your own mind. Also, I very much doubt it's like an on/off switch. I would say it's more like a volume knob; we have different levels on enlightenment at different times. Some people never reach the higher volumes, but different strokes for different folks...
 
Awesome thread!

I have no idea what enlightenment would mean for me, until I can first get my head around the 'consciousness' phenomenon.

If I were to try and place a moment I "felt" enlightened.. it would be the moments coming down off a DMT trip, where EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE..

Is this enlightenment? No idea...
 
(What follows is entirely my opinion. I do not consider it a truth for anyone else but myself.)

Enlightenment is a sudden realization into the essence/nature of reality and that of the self as empty/infinite (both mean the same thing). At this point of realization, all fear, desire and doubt are permanently annihilated and the observer is eternally content and engaged with the 'now' or present moment (which is the only thing that is real). All ideas are seen as false, which includes the future and past.

This is the first stage.
The second stage is letting go of the realization of enlightenment. This is the point where the awareness realizes that reality and the observer are neither real nor unreal, neither infinite nor finite. This is where words fail as it becomes a paradox. Total knowledge is knowing there is nothing to know.

Be the moment.
 
Forget all you know as truth.
Leave all your attachments that you identify with.
Reduce your mind till it can no longer be reduced.
Look where is no mind, in yourself.
After this if god have not helped you to realize enlightenment, it means that you do not need it right now.
Anyway you are enlightened being but your ego do not know it yet.
Well in fact there is no ego but your projections. Ego that do not know who is the real you behind the theater of illusions is simply playing a role of ego that does not know its maker.
So if you want to be living enlightened being stop producing and sustaining illusions within yourself. :p
Find the ground of no mind.
 
Didnt read all of the thread ....... but ....... interesting ....... people speculating about what enlightenment is because they havent experienced it .

Enlightenment is understanding . A higher / deeper / clearer level of understanding than " normal " . Its nothing special . Its there for everyone . Its not hokus pokus , mystical or esoteric ......... and you cant buy o sell it .

People just use their mental capacity in a different way ......... mostly not out of choice = Look at the circumstances that caused / led to their enlightenment .

Their prioritys become different . They dont see themselves as the center of the universe anymore .

People who say that they are enlightened are mostly sharlatans ...... but not all of them . Enlightenment exists .

How would you know if a person is enlightened ? Though observing what the person says and does ...... and the difference between those two things ........ and also by reputation ......... if not then how ?

Its not a one size fits all thing . Its not measurable . Its basicly the same for everyone but it comes on a scale = more or less enlightened .

Its also not a big problem solver = whats the point of being enlightened when one lives on a planet full of greedy egoistic morons that have learned / been trained / been indoctrinated to be happy slaves that wallow in their own problems ?

The physical / biological route to it and need for it is easy to explain .
 
I posted my thoughts on this and had quite a fun exchange with Rising Spirit et al a few years back. Here is the OP, it's LIGHT and playful:


"Enlightenment is a distant horizon; run, walk, amble or stumble towards it and you shall never arrive. But stay where you are, and oh, what sights and marvels you shall miss along the way!!

Maybe there is a reason the word enlightenment encompasses "light": as any student of physics knows, light that is heading away from you shall always travel away at the speed of light RELATIVE TO YOU, no matter your speed; Light too is a horizon. It speeds and recedes and its very velocity lends shape to TIME and delineates space and DISTANCE, which of course, are the necessary conditions for the existence of MASS.

LIGHT, then, is Time, Distance, Mass. Mass, Time, Distance.

DISTANCE MASS TIME.

Light is DMT. :)

JBARk recedes back into the hole in the dark that envelopes the darkened hole..."

The rest of the thread, if you'd like to look at any of the elaborate posts by others is here:
Of Enlightenment
 
I saw a post earlier in this thread this evening by GOD, but for some reason it appears to have dissappeared. What GOD descrbed as enlightenment sounded very much to me as the same symptoms as getting old.

If you watch a kung fu film, or something similar, the enlightened master is always some old wizened fossil (and a complete smartass to boot). You never see any young enlightened guru types. And lets face it, they"d be even more annoying than the older ones.

Maybe enlightenment is the booby prize that you recieve once you reach the age where your organs begin to shrivel and head in a southerly direction.

You get old, you reach a point where you are enlightened and paradoxically you say to yourself " Enlightenment??? Nah bollocks!" Thereby the circle is completed. The searcher is both satiated and the weight is lifted.
 
hug46 said:
You get old, you reach a point where you are enlightened and paradoxically you say to yourself " Enlightenment??? Nah bollocks!" Thereby the circle is completed. The searcher is both satiated and the weight is lifted.
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Nicely put Monsieur Calin.
 
recently ran across this translation...curiously a new translation of something I first read over 40 years ago...
"When our own intrinsic awareness becomes manifest, everything is seen nakedly, unencumbered and undistorted by conceptual constructions and the working of the mind. In this state of total awareness and presence, whatever thoughts and appearances arise are allowed to remain in their own condition without any attempts by the mind to modify or correct them, and in this way they self-liberate. To be precise, their very arising is simultaneously their self-liberation. There is no duality between arising and liberating, no interval between these events, no intervention by the mind or thought process."
-Self LIberation Through Seeing with Naked Awareness (Padmasambhava/Vajranatha Reynolds
:thumb_up:
 
Hmm, after reading this thread I am no more enlightened than I was before...

I feel like enlightenment comes in stages throughout your life, and some people just dont see it so they do not proceed. I guess in that understanding with old age comes enlightenment for some. Others achieve it by pursuing it earlier on. I resonate with others feelings that enlightenment is like a volume knob, but I would take a guess and say that for some people as they age the volume increases as well.

To end, I feel pure enlightenment is only achieved after death.
 
anrchy said:
I feel like enlightenment comes in stages throughout your life, and some people just dont see it so they do not proceed. I guess in that understanding with old age comes enlightenment for some. Others achieve it by pursuing it earlier on. I resonate with others feelings that enlightenment is like a volume knob, but I would take a guess and say that for some people as they age the volume increases as well.

To end, I feel pure enlightenment is only achieved after death.
Click to expand...

Enlightenment isn't a gradual process. It's a radical and irreversible shift in perception of reality. The lead-up to enlightenment may be gradual (this involves breaking down your own thought patterns), but the happening is in an instant. There's no such thing as partially enlightened being. The light switch is either on, or its off.

However, that doesn't mean game over, or that you've actually achieved anything. It's just passing through the door into a new paradigm. Enlightenment is only the beginning of a vast territory into the unknown.
Really, enlightenment doesn't mean shit unless you're willing to start all over again. If people think its the final destination, they'll be terribly disappointed.
 
GOD said:
How would you know if a person is enlightened ? Though observing what the person says and does ...... and the difference between those two things ........ and also by reputation ......... if not then how ?
Click to expand...

I'm unable to see what reputation has to do with this. Mind explaining?

GOD said:
Its not a one size fits all thing . Its not measurable . Its basicly the same for everyone but it comes on a scale = more or less enlightened .
Click to expand...

I find this interesting as it contradicts with this:

The Unknowing said:
Enlightenment isn't a gradual process. It's a radical and irreversible shift in perception of reality. The lead-up to enlightenment may be gradual (this involves breaking down your own thought patterns), but the happening is in an instant. There's no such thing as partially enlightened being. The light switch is either on, or its off.
Click to expand...


whats the point of being enlightened when one lives on a planet full of greedy egoistic morons that have learned / been trained / been indoctrinated to be happy slaves that wallow in their own problems ?
Click to expand...

Could it be insight?

The physical / biological route to it and need for it is easy to explain .
Click to expand...

I'd like to hear your explaination.
 
jbark said:
Nicely put Monsieur Calin.
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Thankyou Mr JÉcorce ( i am still crap at French. I got the calin straight away but cheated with reverso.net for my little jeu de mots). Nice to see you back.

GOD said:
Its also not a big problem solver = whats the point of being enlightened when one lives on a planet full of greedy egoistic morons that have learned / been trained / been indoctrinated to be happy slaves that wallow in their own problems ?
Click to expand...

I sort of understand where you are coming from but i think that greedy egoistic morons have hopes, dreams, moments of clarity and even enlightenment the same as anyone else. They just may not be the same as yours.
As far as i can see from peoples views on enlightenment it is a many headed, subjective beast and dependent on the journey that each of us has travelled. I am starting to sound like a hippie. Maybe i should stop smoking pot?

A1pha said:
Probably my favorite thread on the subject: I thought you were enlightened

ZenMaster said:
Before Enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.
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Click to expand...

That"s fairly on the money. Chopping wood and carrying water can also be a contributing factor towards clarity/enlightenment/existential bliss or whatever the hell it is.
 
The Unknowing said:
anrchy said:
I feel like enlightenment comes in stages throughout your life, and some people just dont see it so they do not proceed. I guess in that understanding with old age comes enlightenment for some. Others achieve it by pursuing it earlier on. I resonate with others feelings that enlightenment is like a volume knob, but I would take a guess and say that for some people as they age the volume increases as well.

To end, I feel pure enlightenment is only achieved after death.
Click to expand...

Enlightenment isn't a gradual process. It's a radical and irreversible shift in perception of reality. The lead-up to enlightenment may be gradual (this involves breaking down your own thought patterns), but the happening is in an instant. There's no such thing as partially enlightened being. The light switch is either on, or its off.

However, that doesn't mean game over, or that you've actually achieved anything. It's just passing through the door into a new paradigm. Enlightenment is only the beginning of a vast territory into the unknown.
Really, enlightenment doesn't mean shit unless you're willing to start all over again. If people think its the final destination, they'll be terribly disappointed.
Click to expand...

How can you be so sure?

I look at it like this; without the catalyst that brings upon what your saying the gradual momentum towards enlightenment may not be perceived. Its not until that "ah hah" moment that you are aware. Most may never reach that point but i dont feel like anyone is qualified to say it is only this way and not that.
 
anrchy said:
How can you be so sure?

I look at it like this; without the catalyst that brings upon what your saying the gradual momentum towards enlightenment may not be perceived. Its not until that "ah hah" moment that you are aware. Most may never reach that point but i dont feel like anyone is qualified to say it is only this way and not that.
Click to expand...

Let me put it in another way: The journey towards enlightenment is an undoing. That which is enlightened (consciousness, awareness, God, Tao) cannot exist while your filtering mechanisms (your ideas/beliefs/perception/sense of self, etc) are running the show. The closer you are to enlightenment, the less you actually 'know' about anything.

This is why most people never reach the 'aha' realization. It's because there is a perception that the path to enlightenment is all uphill, with promise of increased clarity, happiness, bliss, and understanding. In reality, this is far from true.
You literally unravel yourself and find that it has no basis in reality. This is quite shocking and terrifying for most people.
 
Imo that still doesnt mean there cant be a gradual momentum towards enlightenment. You said it yourself "The closer you are to enlightenment, the less you actually 'know' about anything." which is my point. I feel like some people are naturally following the path, some dont even know it, towards enlightenment. I totally understand your description, and agree, with what enlightenment is. I am just saying i dont think its just an all or nothing kind of thing. Working towards enlightenment requires certain steps. I may be completely wrong but i have felt what could be at least a partial enlightenment experience after my big dose. It was difficult to swallow for quite some time to say the least.
 
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