Entities or hallucinations

[hauntedmango]

Out of curiosity, how many of you guys believe you actually make contact with alien entities while on DMT? I consider myself a highly scientific oriented mind, but I cannot ignore the profound and real feeling i experience when I make contact with something on a breakthrough.

 

[Guyomech]

You'll find that this, and variations on this theme, is one of the most discussed topics on the Nexus. In many cases you'll find people split down the middle- about half feel that the whole experience is an exotic manifestation of the inner workings of the mind, while others are convinced that it's real contact with real entities. The old materialist/spiritualist debate.

My own take on this is neither. Part of the psychedelic mindset is being able to hold seemingly contradictory truths in your head simultaneously. You are the mind of the universe, but you are also a primate.

It's a fleeting feeling, hard to pin down... I find that the entities I encounter all feel lIke parts of myself. At the same time, my definition of "self" is far larger and more porous than usual during those moments. So in some senses these entities are very real, and are actively engaging in real communication. In other ways, they're robotic aspects of your self. I think that a clean real/not real answer may continue to be elusive.

 

[Eliyahu]

Out of curiosity, how many of you guys believe you actually make contact with alien entities while on DMT? I consider myself a highly scientific oriented mind, but I cannot ignore the profound and real feeling i experience when I make contact with something on a breakthrough.

I personally believe they are real aliens. I see no reason to "pretend" that it's just all in my mind, to me this is a form of hiding. of course this is only my opinion. Nothing more.

 

[Guyomech]

Here's one way of looking at it. You are unimaginably complex, and in your cells you contain the biological history of this world. Is it that unreasonable to imagine, during an elevated state, aspects of this ancient heritage awakening and communicating with you? Since these beings are not in any way embodiments of your everyday self, but of something much larger and more ancient, it truly does play out as an encounter with the other. As far as placing a real/not real definition on this experience, I think that's an artificial, left-brain distinction.

 

[Eliyahu]

I can see where your coming from Guyomech. I think your Idea about it is pretty reasonable.
Although I tend to think that whether the experience is treated as real or not is an incredibly important detail.

One thing about it is, I have had the "entities" straight up tell me point blank that they are absolutely real. Just recently on a trip into hyperspace an entity announced to me that:
"THIS IS NOT A DAY DREAM!"

If these entities are just phantoms of my mind then I don't see why my mind would attempt to deceive me by masquerading this way. Quite honestly, if I thought for a moment that the entities I was seeing were not real I would then stop tripping altogether because I just don't see the value in talking to a bunch of phantoms projected from my subconscious mind who are just going to fill my had with empty promises and dreams etc. I have sleep for that.

 

[Vodsel]

As Guyomech pointed out, this has been debated in the Nexus more times than I can count, and seems that we are still far away from any possible consensus. Not just nexians, but humans in general. But to reply to your question and contribute to the (controversy-free) statistics...

I haven't had so far any type of entity contact using DMT. That said, I have encountered presences with other substances. And my views on this would require a third way, or better than that, reformulating the question.

I personally believe they are real aliens. I see no reason to "pretend" that it's just all in my mind, to me this is a form of hiding. of course this is only my opinion. Nothing more.

Eliyahu's experience and the words he uses come straight to my point, since it's in words like "real", or in expressions like "just in our mind" where the trap lies IMO.

We have grown in a strongly dualistic cultural frame. Plato the greek opened fire his cave myth, where he suggests we only see shadows, reflections of a superior, unattainable reality. Ideas are perfect, the material world is imperfect. Also adopted by christianity, Descartes spoke a lot about the separation of material body and immaterial soul (funny, though, how he believed body and soul interacted in the pineal gland). He was the father or western philosophy.

I think we have to transcend that frame of mind. And when people says that something is less real because it "only happens in the mind", they actually imply that the mind is a secondary actor, something contingent, a byproduct of our circuitry, and that only consensual facts are to be considered "real". As soon as you question that point of view, you also are starting to question the classic "real vs. non-real" debate.

The concern behind "are DMT aliens real?" seems to be rather "should I consider them as facts in my daily life?" or "should I re-make my map of the world because of my experience?". And to both I'd answer a big YES. And that YES is independent from the consensual reality of one particular experience you had on DMT. Look at it this way: Whether you are somehow witnessing a distant, trans-dimensional reality that you cannot access with your physical eyes, or your circuitry is constructing this amazing reality, providing it with qualities and sensations that go beyond anything you could imagine so far, the implications are equally mind-blowing. And we try to fit psychedelic experiences inside of our coherence-constructing cultural device, but if there's anything psychedelics show us is the social straight jacket that device can be.

Is the Universe the mystery, or is it your mind?

I do not need to pick. Since I don't even know if they are different things at all.

 

[Eliyahu]

^^^^ < very nicely worded Vodsel.

 

[Guyomech]

Agreed. Fantastic.

I'm starting a new thread to explore this particular twist.

 

[Ether]

As Guyomech pointed out, this has been debated in the Nexus more times than I can count, and seems that we are still far away from any possible consensus. Not just nexians, but humans in general. But to reply to your question and contribute to the (controversy-free) statistics...

I haven't had so far any type of entity contact using DMT. That said, I have encountered presences with other substances. And my views on this would require a third way, or better than that, reformulating the question.

I personally believe they are real aliens. I see no reason to "pretend" that it's just all in my mind, to me this is a form of hiding. of course this is only my opinion. Nothing more.

Eliyahu's experience and the words he uses come straight to my point, since it's in words like "real", or in expressions like "just in our mind" where the trap lies IMO.

We have grown in a strongly dualistic cultural frame. Plato the greek opened fire his cave myth, where he suggests we only see shadows, reflections of a superior, unattainable reality. Ideas are perfect, the material world is imperfect. Also adopted by christianity, Descartes spoke a lot about the separation of material body and immaterial soul (funny, though, how he believed body and soul interacted in the pineal gland). He was the father or western philosophy.

I think we have to transcend that frame of mind. And when people says that something is less real because it "only happens in the mind", they actually imply that the mind is a secondary actor, something contingent, a byproduct of our circuitry, and that only consensual facts are to be considered "real". As soon as you question that point of view, you also are starting to question the classic "real vs. non-real" debate.

The concern behind "are DMT aliens real?" seems to be rather "should I consider them as facts in my daily life?" or "should I re-make my map of the world because of my experience?". And to both I'd answer a big YES. And that YES is independent from the consensual reality of one particular experience you had on DMT. Look at it this way: Whether you are somehow witnessing a distant, trans-dimensional reality that you cannot access with your physical eyes, or your circuitry is constructing this amazing reality, providing it with qualities and sensations that go beyond anything you could imagine so far, the implications are equally mind-blowing. And we try to fit psychedelic experiences inside of our coherence-constructing cultural device, but if there's anything psychedelics show us is the social straight jacket that device can be.

Is the Universe the mystery, or is it your mind?

I do not need to pick. Since I don't even know if they are different things at all.

Id have to agree. I feel like its a point of us to transcend this trick of consensual agreement on things and its arguments of real or not. Whats real is what you perceive, believe, and integrate into your universe/life. To understand yourself is to explore every part of the things you are. Become familiar with all of your dimensions. That seems to be the magic of consciousness

 

[○]

I heavily gravitate towards the Bhagavad Gita/ Eastern mysticism/philosophy. I believe our very essence...this transcendent vibratory extremely subtle type-of energy..whether it be consciousness, our soul or what have you extends through everything in the phenomenal universe. That very essence that is us is inseparable from reality. These entities are forms of THAT.

These entities/autonomous forms of high vibration that show themselves from time to time I tend to think are extensions of consciousness/our soul.(which isn't limited to our minds/bodies, but permeates everything in existence). I think they're as much a part of us as they are that reality.. which underlies everything and is one-in-the-same...not separate...but one cohesive whole.

 

[redeyes drag on]

I believe that these entities are just manifestations of the mind, nothing more. Also I am very science oriented, atheist, I do believe in aliens as there has to be other life out there but I doubt they have made any contact with humans.

 

[Eliyahu]

I heavily gravitate towards the Bhagavad Gita/ Eastern mysticism/philosophy. I believe our very essence...this transcendent vibratory extremely subtle type-of energy..whether it be consciousness, our soul or what have you extends through everything in the phenomenal universe. That very essence that is us is inseparable from reality. These entities are forms of THAT.

These entities/autonomous forms of high vibration that show themselves from time to time I tend to think are extensions of consciousness/our soul.(which isn't limited to our minds/bodies, but permeates everything in existence). I think they're as much a part of us as they are that reality.. which underlies everything and is one-in-the-same...not separate...but one cohesive whole.

I mean no offense but I am also an avid student of eastern mysticism/ Veda and Tibetan Buddhist philosophy and as far as I am aware these philosophies do not support the idea that entities are extensions of our soul.

I suppose it all lies in how one interprets it but I believe the eastern philosophies you mentioned strongly insinuate that it is the other way around, that we are extensions of the will of God and not vice-versa. I personally don't understand how a higher form could be the extension of a lower form. To me that is like saying the dream made the dreamer.

 

[Ether]

I heavily gravitate towards the Bhagavad Gita/ Eastern mysticism/philosophy. I believe our very essence...this transcendent vibratory extremely subtle type-of energy..whether it be consciousness, our soul or what have you extends through everything in the phenomenal universe. That very essence that is us is inseparable from reality. These entities are forms of THAT.

These entities/autonomous forms of high vibration that show themselves from time to time I tend to think are extensions of consciousness/our soul.(which isn't limited to our minds/bodies, but permeates everything in existence). I think they're as much a part of us as they are that reality.. which underlies everything and is one-in-the-same...not separate...but one cohesive whole.

I mean no offense but I am also an avid student of eastern mysticism/ Veda and Tibetan Buddhist philosophy and as far as I am aware these philosophies do not support the idea that entities are extensions of our soul.

I suppose it all lies in how one interprets it but I believe the eastern philosophies you mentioned strongly insinuate that it is the other way around, that we are extensions of the will of God and not vice-versa. I personally don't understand how a higher form could be the extension of a lower form. To me that is like saying the dream made the dreamer.

Its a subjective thing. Does it really matter?

 

[○]

I heavily gravitate towards the Bhagavad Gita/ Eastern mysticism/philosophy. I believe our very essence...this transcendent vibratory extremely subtle type-of energy..whether it be consciousness, our soul or what have you extends through everything in the phenomenal universe. That very essence that is us is inseparable from reality. These entities are forms of THAT.

These entities/autonomous forms of high vibration that show themselves from time to time I tend to think are extensions of consciousness/our soul.(which isn't limited to our minds/bodies, but permeates everything in existence). I think they're as much a part of us as they are that reality.. which underlies everything and is one-in-the-same...not separate...but one cohesive whole.

I mean no offense but I am also an avid student of eastern mysticism/ Veda and Tibetan Buddhist philosophy and as far as I am aware these philosophies do not support the idea that entities are extensions of our soul.

I suppose it all lies in how one interprets it but I believe the eastern philosophies you mentioned strongly insinuate that it is the other way around, that we are extensions of the will of God and not vice-versa. I personally don't understand how a higher form could be the extension of a lower form. To me that is like saying the dream made the dreamer.

Sorry, I guess I should've been a littleee more clear on my post hehe. The beginning of my first paragraph where I begin with "I believe" and ending in that same paragraph except for the last sentence saying " These entiites are forms of that". The last sentence of that first paragraph and the second paragraph is my own thoughts. Sorry for the confusion of my post. I totally realize that nowhere in the Gita does it state "these autonomous forms are extension of thee Atamn nor Brahman"

 

[○]

And yes... "Atman" is indivisible from thee ultimate reality "Brahman" is how I tend to interpret it. Hence my username "Tat tvam asi"

And I agree, I dont think that these archetypes are the higher extensions giving rise to thee ultimate ground of being. I tend to think they're specific extensions of that "ultimate" that manifest themselves according to the individual.

 

[hauntedmango]

Here's one way of looking at it. You are unimaginably complex, and in your cells you contain the biological history of this world. Is it that unreasonable to imagine, during an elevated state, aspects of this ancient heritage awakening and communicating with you? Since these beings are not in any way embodiments of your everyday self, but of something much larger and more ancient, it truly does play out as an encounter with the other. As far as placing a real/not real definition on this experience, I think that's an artificial, left-brain distinction.

Interesting way of looking at it. I never considered it in that light. I'll try and think about it in that mindstate next time I blast off

 

[Botanical Bliss]

The last time I used dmt I met an entity. Afterwards I couldn't decide if I thought it was a real entity/alien/spirit/anscestor or whatever, or if it was just my subconcious. I'm kind of split in the middle on this one until I have more experiences with the spirit molecule

 

[daveyboy91]

Would be interesting to find out whether our junk DNA is accessed while in an elevated state.

There has to be life out there, but i just can't believe that we can come into contact with aliens during this experience

 

[kpkp123]

I think that the entities are just my mind trying to make sense of an overwhelming psychadelic experience. I don't think that I am communicating with other worlds or beings.

 

[eprec]

I think it is impossible to hide the simple complexities of Atman for long.

Isn't it scientifically possible to show that all routes lead to the same ocean?

An "atman" is not nearly as important as the essential forces which put it into place.

I think if there is anything Atman wants it's for you all to smoak moar and eventually go live on jupiter so animals can be chill