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TEK Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

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hello friends!

I'm exited with this new technology in my life,
I received some Argentinian cactus to experiment, (Trichocereus Terschekii), it has been about 3 hours since salting and, there are still no indications of crystalline wonders decanting, in fact, I can appreciate a clear cloud decanting very slowly. Being the first time, I consider that there may be extra water involved in the situation, although I paid attention and time to leave behind the droplets of water present after spending 60 hours in the refrigerator,( I had to leave for two days from home).

The CA has not yet diluted everything, at the bottom of the container jar I could see some granites still present, and the color of the extract in EA did not become a literal emerald, but if a good green, it was not very light or so dark.. Call my attention if you still have water since I do not get to use the 250ml that the tek recommends, I started with 200ml and that was enough for the consitence sought.

I will wait to see what happens with the passage of time.

Maybe drying the EA can help. I am a little doubting the quality of the solvent the truth, here is controlled, it is always sold at 60%, in theory this I got is 99... But, doubt appeared at home..

Thanks for all of you there !
 
navegandouniversos said:
hello friends!

I'm exited with this new technology in my life,
I received some Argentinian cactus to experiment, (Trichocereus Terschekii), it has been about 3 hours since salting and, there are still no indications of crystalline wonders decanting, in fact, I can appreciate a clear cloud decanting very slowly. Being the first time, I consider that there may be extra water involved in the situation, although I paid attention and time to leave behind the droplets of water present after spending 60 hours in the refrigerator,( I had to leave for two days from home).

The CA has not yet diluted everything, at the bottom of the container jar I could see some granites still present, and the color of the extract in EA did not become a literal emerald, but if a good green, it was not very light or so dark.. Call my attention if you still have water since I do not get to use the 250ml that the tek recommends, I started with 200ml and that was enough for the consitence sought.

I will wait to see what happens with the passage of time.

Maybe drying the EA can help. I am a little doubting the quality of the solvent the truth, here is controlled, it is always sold at 60%, in theory this I got is 99... But, doubt appeared at home..

Thanks for all of you there !
Click to expand...
This will be an interesting result; I'll have to check, but I think this might be the first reported attempt with CIELO using terscheckii as the starting material. I hope you've been able to follow all the finest details of the method. Did you follow it in English or is there a Spanish translation available? I can see that some of the terminology is not making it between the two languages unscathed. (Were I to attempt to describe this in German it would be far worse, I can assure you - let alone Spanish!) but I think the main point is that by decanting you appear to mean precipitating and/or settling.

It's a bit late to dry the EA now that you've added the citric acid, plus a certain amount of water is required for the M citrate to form, as it appears to be the sesquihydrate. It may even be that the lengthy stay in the fridge has left the EA too dry, since you report that the CA seems to be having trouble dissolving, which is what I'm inferring from "has not yet diluted everything, at the bottom of the container jar I could see some granites still present". There are unchanged CA crystals still sat at the bottom of the jar, yes?

By EA I sincerely hope you mean ethyl acetate - acetato de etìlo - and that you haven't bought ethanol/ethyl alcohol by mistake, because your comments about 60% and 99% have set my alarm bells ringing. But the fact that you appeared to get water droplets from refrigeration means I'm also partially confident you may have the right solvent, as long as they weren't some other debris. CA should dissolve reasonably well in ethanol, so its reluctance to dissolve also reassures me somewhat.

Got my fingers crossed for this - particularly wondering what effect the trichocerine and N-methylmescaline that T. terscheckii is known for might do to the process (if they're pulled by the EA, and how they might crystallise, if at all).

[Edit - terminology corrected]
 
Sometimes it takes a bit longer. You'll probably see crystals within a day or two.

Last time i did CIELO, after a day there were quite some crystals on the bottom, but also still some floating cloud. I collected the floating ones by decanting the EA through a coffee filter. I actually think next time, i might try to collect the entire yield this way - i find it easier than scraping :)
 
Well thank you very much for the immediate answers guys!!

downwardsfromzero: I was able to follow carefully this tek, with Spanish translation, my partner is from another place where they speak English so it is not a complication the language,, thanks for your concern on that. You know, already the CA, has dissolved well, the cloud mentioned is precipitating, you also understood well when I talked about decanting,, that is the same, I think you are right about the temperature, you still do not see the diamonds growing, it is settling slowly, I am open to have some result out of the expected crystallized hehehe, since it is the first time and I also consider that being this type of cactus can give some surprise. When I mentioned about drying the EA, I meant for a new work, since I will not wait 3 days still I will make more attempts, both with more terschekii and with pachanoi since they are at home and it is time to experience this new way.

Another thing is that when I mentioned 60 and 99%, it was in reference to the EA that is sold free of licenses (60%) or with license (99%), here where I live, all the necessary materials to work peacefully at home, are controlled by the drug trafficking situation... But as in any place, looking for is found, the issue is that, I have no absolute certainty of the degree of purity that has, same as the seller swore that it is 99%, and before using it I let evaporate about 30 ml and apparently everything went well ...

I will give news as soon as this progresses and in the meantime, I will continue with the experimentation.
 
Hi, just have to say that in spanish the words "acetato etílico" are never used.. Ethyl acetate is most commonly translated as "Acetato de etilo" and sometimes "Etanoato de etilo" and "Etil acetato".
 
Nachooo1 said:
Hi, just have to say that in spanish the words "acetato etílico" are never used.. Ethyl acetate is most commonly translated as "Acetato de etilo" and sometimes "Etanoato de etilo" and "Etil acetato".
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Thanks for this correction - I looked it up after posting, then forgot to correct my post! As alluded to elsewhere in the post, my Spanish is beyond flaky 😁
 
hello friends,
I have the result of the first CIELO tek with T. Terschekii, and.. They did not precipitate crystals, but a thin layer of oil,, after 48 hours, I will pick it up let it dry and try a Re-X with IPA,, probably i failed with water, until now I thought I had paid close attention to that part as indicated by the tek, in fact spend minutes controlling the presence of droplets and leaving them behind after cold rest, but, things of initiator seems, hehehehe.

Can there be more factors that help that happen?

Right now I will neutralize the EA, and then freeze it to separate the ice. Regarding that, it is necessary to whiten it later with activated carbon or you could reuse it after straining the ice that is formed.
 
navegandouniversos said:
hello friends,
I have the result of the first CIELO tek with T. Terschekii, and.. They did not precipitate crystals, but a thin layer of oil,, after 48 hours, I will pick it up let it dry and try a Re-X with IPA,, probably i failed with water, until now I thought I had paid close attention to that part as indicated by the tek, in fact spend minutes controlling the presence of droplets and leaving them behind after cold rest, but, things of initiator seems, hehehehe.

Can there be more factors that help that happen?

Right now I will neutralize the EA, and then freeze it to separate the ice. Regarding that, it is necessary to whiten it later with activated carbon or you could reuse it after straining the ice that is formed.
Click to expand...

Yes there can be other factors such as not adding excess citric acid.

Also, thar cactus has trichocereine, which may precipitate differently than mescaline. I read it has 5:1 ratio of trichoceirine to mescaline. The pure product from this cactus may be an oil (?).

Instead of freeze, a brine wash is recommended for reuse. Activated charcoal is not needed.
 
Did not work because you maybe tried to re-x?

So your question was about re-x / clean and what _Trip_ means is that you can clean (but not re-x) it by simply washing it a little with EA. It will not dissolve, but traces of other stuff like Chlorophyll would be washed away. You should see a little green-to-grey colour of that EA.

But even without it it should be really pure unless it did not really crystallize. So was there some problem with crystallization and it did not look like it should be? Then for truly doing a recrystallization you can use minimal amounts of IPA, but this will destroy the great looking needles :oops:
 
thanks loveall,

I also considered that i could increase the amount of CA in a new test... just to rule out the doubt.

Well, what happened, I separated that oily substance, and let it dry well, and what I did was to take it with some ipa to the refrigerator, and then to the freezer. after about 12 hours, I had to see it, it precipitated to the walls of the container, something white and something amber, two substances that when removing the ipa from it with the passage of time was recovering its initial form (oil), so, I opted to leave it like that, and in these next few days try a part of it to see what it counts. I know this type of cactus from many years of consumption, mainly in water and ethanol extractions, which is good to have a reference for this new aspect.

Regarding the EA, before reading your answer, I took the initiative and washed it with water and sodium carbonate and after removing the water in the separating funnel I froze it and ice particles were formed and at the bottom of the container a little more ice, which was all filtered and so with the solvent still green, today I did a test with a little pachanoi, and the extract is with a super dark emerald color!

Tomorrow I will continue with the matter
 
navegandouniversos said:
thanks loveall,

I also considered that i could increase the amount of CA in a new test... just to rule out the doubt.

Well, what happened, I separated that oily substance, and let it dry well, and what I did was to take it with some ipa to the refrigerator, and then to the freezer. after about 12 hours, I had to see it, it precipitated to the walls of the container, something white and something amber, two substances that when removing the ipa from it with the passage of time was recovering its initial form (oil), so, I opted to leave it like that, and in these next few days try a part of it to see what it counts. I know this type of cactus from many years of consumption, mainly in water and ethanol extractions, which is good to have a reference for this new aspect.

Regarding the EA, before reading your answer, I took the initiative and washed it with water and sodium carbonate and after removing the water in the separating funnel I froze it and ice particles were formed and at the bottom of the container a little more ice, which was all filtered and so with the solvent still green, today I did a test with a little pachanoi, and the extract is with a super dark emerald color!

Tomorrow I will continue with the matter
Click to expand...

Interesting that more than one compound precipitated from IPA (potentially). Do you have TLC? That may be informative. Can you weigh the oil and give a % yield?

After looking more into this, it turns out that trichocerine is not considered active. However, the plant is used traditionally in Argentina as reported by Sandtrout.

The attached paper from 2013 reports the presence of TMA (alfa-methylmescaline) in T. Terscheckii. TMA is comsidered ~2x as strong as mescaline. However, Keeper Trout questioned the paper's result and suggested that n-methyl mescaline is much more likely than the alpha-methyl, and that the paper methodology could not distinguish the two. N-methyl mescaline is not active at 25mg. I cannot find reports at higher dosages.

It would be very interesting to analyze a CIELO extract from T. Terscheckii and see how much N-methyl mescaline is present (along with mescaline and trichocerine).

Perhaps fumaric acid is better at xtalizing the possible n-methyl mescaline in T. Terscheckii when doing CIELO (note that DFZ suggested CIELO already for this cactus).
 

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Brennendes wasser: He did not try to re-x yet. There were a few runs that turned more tanisch than usual. Some of them nice little needles like you want and others more flaky powdery stuff. All of this was washed with Ea of course. Looking for a way to a) clean it up better, B) recrystallize to get those nice little needles back. Figured ask here first b4 he does something regrettable. Really just geeking out here. It would be perfectly fine to consume as it is :)
 
Interesting that more than one compound precipitated from IPA (potentially). Do you have TLC? That may be informative. Can you weigh the oil and give a % yield?

After looking more into this, it turns out that trichocerine is not considered active. However, the plant is used traditionally in Argentina as reported by Sandtrout.

The attached paper from 2013 reports the presence of TMA (alfa-methylmescaline) in T. Terscheckii. TMA is comsidered ~2x as strong as mescaline. However, Keeper Trout questioned the paper's result and suggested that n-methyl mescaline is much more likely than the alpha-methyl, and that the paper methodology could not distinguish the two. N-methyl mescaline is not active at 25mg. I cannot find reports at higher dosages.

It would be very interesting to analyze a CIELO extract from T. Terscheckii and see how much N-methyl mescaline is present (along with mescaline and trichocerine).

Perhaps fumaric acid is better at xtalizing the possible n-methyl mescaline in T. Terscheckii when doing CIELO (note that DFZ suggested CIELO already for this cactus).[/quote]



Hello loveall !

Well, TLC I do not have here now, I am about to buy to also throw that doubt, the % of yield was 2% (200g cactus powder: 4g oil), I didn´t try the extract yet, because i´ll take iboga on this saturday and, this week i´m sober and focused with that... so, next week i´ll take it and tell us about ..

It is true that in Argentina it is traditionally used, and it is really very powerful that cactus, we usually take aqueous extracts, is how it is traditionally used to work it, and what a work the harvest is... it is really something wild.

Here I will try next time with fumaric acid, yes, and also with a French press because I worked with a becker and strainer on top, I did it carefully and calmly so as not to move the paste too much, but, inevitably it happened, and I consider that this was something that within what you have developed in this technology was on the outside, so I will adjust that part for new experiments, I am with a lot of material and it is time to work it, really, it is admirable what has been achieved.
I read over and over again the recipe, the methods, and the forum of this thread,,,, so, I estimate to do things better next time.

So, thanks so much for everything
 
navegandouniversos said:
I don't know how to mark your message and make it look framed differentiated from what I'm writing as a reply... how embarrassing hahaha .
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There's a "quote" button for doing that. It puts the whole quoted post into BBcoe quotes, or you can add it manually [ quote=whomsoever]quotey Mc quoteface[ /quote] minus the leading spaces gives
whomesoever said:
quotey Mc quoteface
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Well, TLC I do not have here now, I am about to buy to also throw that doubt, the % of yield was 2% (200g cactus powder: 4g oil)
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Regarding the yield in terms of oil and calculating back on the original material I just want to shortly chip in and throw in something prior to a detailed post, I made some analysis on various possible results of the CIELO tek and also included the goo, sadly cannot finish all samples due to some technical problems :twisted: :twisted: :roll: 😁

So while the full post will come hopefully as soon as possible I have some info about a possible goo formation, which will of course not be similar in everybody's case as this might differ from situation / person / cacti / extraction conditions.

But it seems like the typical goo is not just mescaline citrate, even though it might solidify over time. This indeed happens due to the slow removal of water due to evaporation. But the goo most certainly consists also of excess citric acid and also water. Even if you completely solidify your goo, it will still contain a lot of water. Data coming soon, but just to throw in here, you will probably only expect your goo to be 20-50 % mescaline citrate.

Quickly speaking I think getting goo is a result of excess water, which might still be present (in too large quantities) in some cases after fridge decant and not by too low amounts of CA. This will make all the Mescaline crystals move out into that excess water at a bottom layer and as citric acid just loves water more than anything, citric acid from the EA will also partially migrate inside. This salt-water-mix still contains too much water to solidify, as both Mescaline Citrate and CA are easily dissolved by minimal water amounts, so the stuff keeps free-flowing, yet at high viscosity. As you will not be able to tell the ratio, even a water-free goo would be difficoult to assume in terms of potency. But even a 100 % evaporated goo (which will turn 100 % solid) will contain quite a lot of water (probably because of the citric acid). So without doing any recrystallization this goo is probably impossible to judge in terms of potency. Waiting since quite some time to finish this and give some more visual data, but hope to have it soon and then it might be more clear.
 
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