Evaporation of Freebase from Basic Solution

[omnilucident]

After several years of experimentstion with bulk leaves and bark I keep getting very low yields.

I have tried acacia acuminata leaves and phyllodes with shellite with very low yields
with zippo fluid with unknown yields because there was too much impurities for me to know dmt content (and didn't have time to re-x due to living situation.

with bark I have had many failures with dead bark. recently have started using live bark with shellite with very very low yields. like 1.5g out of 2kg of acuminata. although this is satisfying me and my girlfriend for quite some time, I feel frustrated that I keep having errors.

last night I thought that I may have found the problem. due to a lot of people saying I should run the extraction very hot with shellite I have always added my sodium hydroxide directly into my soup. and after some failures due to not using enough base, I now use 500g for a 2 liter (from 2kg) soup.
it gets very very very hot. so much that if I add shellite too early it will boil and evaporate away.

is my freebase dmt evaporating from the basic solutions at this high temperature?

also, fellow Aussie acuminata workers. which solvent do you recommended? shellite, zippo or xylene (can't find toulene)?

I would like to be able to do one big 2kg extraction so that I never have to do it again and risk legal things.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

is my freebase dmt evaporating from the basic solutions at this high temperature?

No.


I've never worked with acacia so I can't comment on any of that. Two questions come to mind. Is your weight fresh or dry material (wither way your yield seems low, just wondering)? Has your material all come from the same source(s)?

 

[omnilucident]

Fresh, but still a huge quantity was used. volume wise comparable to dry material is not that different.

and it was taken from many trees as not to damage them so badly.

 

[BnaiRagshee]

Would you mind saying what tek you use? That seems like a really low yield. But for initial pulls I definitely recommend xylene.

 

[omnilucident]

A/B tek, boiling with tartaric acid. reducing, adding 300g of pure salt and 500g sodium hydroxide and 200ml shellite per pull.

 

[ooo0ooo]

Which brand of shellite? Sceney's has better reports than the Digger's stuff from Bunnings.

I know your reasoning, but 2kg extractions just sounds like overkill for mine - particularly if you're harming live trees to do so. Not cool. At a 1% yield, that's 20g - enough for 400 MASSIVE hits. Even with two of you, that's an awful lot...

For mine, the ethical thing to do would be harvesting recently fallen stuff or just phyllodes in sustainable quantities and getting your techniques down pat first. From all analysis done recently, A. acuminata is a very reliable species with a fairly pure profile - particularly the thin phyllode variety. Respect them and they'll respect you.

I wouldn't try and do 2kg extractions in one go. Break it up. Much easier to work with smaller quantities and less chance of catastrophic errors.

How many boils are you doing on the source material and what ph are you at? On 500g a dry powedered material, I'd be doing 6 x 2l boils and then reducing those to 1 - 1.25l. To base, I would then add NaOH to water and then add it to your recued soup. For mine, I don't want the soup boiling at all.

When you extract with the shellite, warm it to 50C or so - hot, but touchable - and add it to the soup that's been warmed to a similar temperature. Too hot and you'll just pull a whole bunch of gunk along with your target.

The suggestion from BnaiRagshee re: xylene is also a good one if you want to go the FASAA route, but I wouldn't recommend trying to evaporate it as you'll just end up with goo, (which is still perfectly useable but just a pain to manage), and it won't freeze precipitate.

0.

 

[omnilucident]

diggers.
I actually used dead bark and the leaves for about two years experimenting before I moved to live bark. I also treat the wounds of trees I use. and through seed sharing and my own cultivation (live on a farm) I have brought 50x more acuminatas into life than I have ever harmes, so I feel comfortable with where I am atm.

5 x 6 liter boils. reduced to 1.75l. m
ph 4 but maybe test strips aren't accurate enough?

yes 400 massive hits is a lot, but if successful I would never have to try again. this is the first time I have ever used live bark after many many experiments.

 

[ooo0ooo]

That's cool mate - thanks for clarifying your situation and intent. Sometimes you just never know, y'know... Peace.

Ph 4 should be fine. I've not seen the citrate path, have only ever seen acetate extractions performed. Though from what I've read, that side sounds fine - along with the boils and your general process.

So to my mind that leaves either the solvent or the actual ID of the plant.

The xylene/FASAA path works well and is quite simple and removes a lot of negative variables. Perhaps worth a go... I would try the Sceney's stuff though - made a lot of difference in the extractions I've seen recently. There's a reseller locator on their website which should come in handy - Decking Oil, Tung Oil, Linseed Oil, Citrus Solvent, Fence Black

Best of luck!

0.

 

[DreaMTripper]

500g of lye even on 2kg seems too much it could be destroying the dmt or maybe causing a complication especially seeing as you say it boils. It just needs to be added steadily to change pH once youve done an acid simmer/ boil.
Try being less aggressive pH is way more important than heat at the basifying stage and too much heat is counter productive.
Shellite has had many bad reports recently too. I understand your concern about the legality of it but you would have to store it just right to preserve that much for such a long time. Possibly in a freezer, something you say you cant use...

Warm zippo is good to use sceneys shellite even better
So if you are adamant to do such a large extraction why not boil phyllodes (1.5% dmt in narrow leaf strain) in metho separate plant matter then add material to fresh water with vinegar and do 3x pH 4 SIMMERS filter and combine liquids then filter filter filter the gums , reduce to 500-1000ml add SLOWLY 30-60gs of lye unril pH 13-14 then add a few tablespoons of salt , stir then add warm zippo and pull. Then go back add to the metho solution and add a solution of lye water to it to see if anything is in it.

Nen88 has made many references to reports providing evidence that acacia rewards a patient gentle approach in extractions. Even though you treat the trees afterwards and plant more the damage may have already been.done. I just dont get why you would use bark when you have access to such a vast amount of acuminata phyllodes that are harmless when pruned (even benefit the tree in some cases encouraging regrowth and diversion of energy) and easier to work with. I think its the extraction culture from mhrb that has that influence.

 

[omnilucident]

I was having a lot of difficulty with plant oils when using phyllodes but I never tried the xylene evap then re-x process.

thank you so much for help everyone!

I really just want someone who has used acuminata extensively to post a successful trek before I try again.

 

[Entheogenerator]

Excess lye will not destroy DMT or cause any problems. Also, heat won't affect your yield unless you allow the solution to hit temperatures above 360°-380° C.

What time of year have you harvested this bark? From my understanding, the alkaloid content of plants fluctuates significantly depending on environmental conditions, time of year, genetics, etc.

 

[omnilucident]

peak of summer, the live bark was from an area near perth that is severely impacted by commercial exploration, I think a lot of us know the place. perhaps the trees are withdrawing their alkaloids to drive away selfish and barbaric doofers?

 

[DreaMTripper]

I was having a lot of difficulty with plant oils when using phyllodes but I never tried the xylene evap then re-x process.

thank you so much for help everyone!

I really just want someone who has used acuminata extensively to post a successful trek before I try again.

Check the acacia analysis thread there is some info on a successful extraction there.

Are you positive you harvested from narrow leaf strain? One of the most consistent Aus Acacias.

 

[omnilucident]

definitely narrow leaf variety. I think the problem is definitely in my extraction, not the plant.

how long do you guys mix your soup on average between pulls?

 

[cy6nu5]

IMHO, just stick some Acacia Confusa root bark in with some heavily basified water.

For one, ACRB is easy to obtain, and for two, it has a huge yield.

There's no way to call it a bad day. If you use the bark powder, you'll grab a gram per hundred easy, and if you're keen, you can get rid of the NMT, if you really want.

I swear by it!
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If you REALLY want to use leaves still, however, the Xylene recommendation everyone is serving is great.

First freeze/thaw cycle your leaves with a food processor in between cycles whilst still cold to break down cell walls. Do this about 3-oo times until you feel it's slushy enough, then do an acid bath with your choice of pH <4 acid (my favourite is citric) for a few washes.

After that, THEN proceed with a Xylene or even a turpentine wash to grab those plantish fatty stuff as many times as you feel comfortable with.
Rinse that defatted solution with naphtha one last time, then proceed to basification, and do what you do.

***ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOUR BASIFIFIED SOLUTION IS AT ABOUT 40*C BEFORE EVEN CONSIDERING USE OF NAPHTHA FOR EXTRACTION!***
Why? The higher the temperature, the higher the solubility of the DMT into the naphtha.

 

[Randomness]

Excuse me if this has already been said but why not practice on little 50 or 100g extracts. 2kg extraction is going to waste massive amount of materials if you get it wrong. You could even do a couple of side by side mini extractions with the same bark and change a few variables on each to find out what works and perfect your technique.

No way would I want to be playing with 500g hydroxide solutions, trying to grind up that much bark or having massive vats of soup kicking about the place.

Science is science a reaction will work on any scale so why not perfect it on a small scale first.

Max ion salt tek got me started pretty good.

P.S have you any way to verify that your bark is what you think it is and is not being affected by seasonal variances? Pardon the pun but you could be barking up the wrong tree so to speak.

Either way perfect a mini extraction and you will be able to find out.

Peace and love