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Evidence of harmala use 2700 years ago

Sakkadelic

Sakkadelic

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They may have had mushrooms then, that would have been an effective triptamine harmala combo. Doesn't have to necessarily be ayahuasca analogue.
 
Ruffles said:
They may have had mushrooms then, that would have been an effective triptamine harmala combo. Doesn't have to necessarily be ayahuasca analogue.
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Yes that may be true, many possibilities, and maybe it was rather vaporhuasca since they mention fumigation.
 
Ruffles said:
They may have had mushrooms then, that would have been an effective triptamine harmala combo. Doesn't have to necessarily be ayahuasca analogue.
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They may have had reeds, brooms, mandrakes, and who knows what else.

Rue synergizes with and potentiates/activates everything.

But in the paper the sole evidence found is of use as incense. And that's a pretty powerful practice by itself.
 
dithyramb said:
They may have had reeds, brooms, mandrakes, and who knows what else.

Rue synergizes with and potentiates/activates everything.

But in the paper the sole evidence found is of use as incense. And that's a pretty powerful practice by itself.
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Yes, and that is still its primary use to this day, it's only crazies like us (and even worse than donkeys, according to some south bedouins) that dare eat a mouthful of it.

But you can imagine all kinds of things that they would eat or drink the milk of goats that had eaten those things and then hotboxing harmala fumes, and suddenly they're talking to god. It seems to me likely that they would come across other plants potentiated or activated by harmalas.

I also read that bedouins burn it when it's green inside their animal sheds/caves to fumegate their goats and sheep to cure them from certain diseases.

Plenty of opportunities to be engulfed in harmala fumes.
 
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This dude in Kuwait says he didn't see the harmal plant in 50 years but now he found 3 shrubs and he is putting effort to protect them, so he definitely knows its value. I am keeping an eye on this account bcz they post about desert plants and trees and maybe one day i'll spot an active one.
 
I don't know the specific dynamics, but based on my own observations over the years, climate change appears to have been killing off Peganum harmala plants in my country. One wouldn't expect this from a hardy dry climate plant. I can imagine the situation is worse in desert countries.

I remember reading of bedouins drinking the milk of goats that had eaten brooms (Cytisus/Genista/Spartium) giving them magical dreams. I don't know if they ingest these plants directly also.

I also read that bedouins eat the seeds of rue. And I know that eating especially fresh seeds, by themselves is enough to have a full on "psychedelic" experience.

Evidence of ancient ingestion of Peganum harmala is likely more difficult to find.

In my country (Turkey) there has been found evidence of the ingestion of Mandrake seeds in the Hittite culture.

About the ingestion of DMT containing brews, this is very unlikely to be found, and not just because people don't test for DMT traces. Some things may remain secret/unknown.
 
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dithyramb said:
I don't know the specific dynamics, but based on my own observations over the years, climate change appears to have been killing off Peganum harmala plants in my country. One wouldn't expect this from a hardy dry climate plant. I can imagine the situation is worse in desert countries.
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It may also have been influenced by the progressive disappearance of traditional herding practices. Peganum harmala loves nitrates and tends to grow where herds graze. In my region they grow mostly in areas frequented by sheep.
 
That would make a lot of sense. The main area that I harvest and study has some, but very little cow herding. It could have been decreasing over the years due to urban development around the area. I recall other areas with "oceans" of rue plants and they were in villages with a lot of cow herding.

I actually observed a certain area where the rue plants produce pitifully weak seeds, and it seemed like there were no signs of cow patties anywhere there. Perhaps the rue plant needs nitrate rich soils not only to thrive but also to produce abundant alkaloids. To be clear this area is just a continuous part of the land where I harvest my seeds. It's the same strain that I always harvest in the same ecosystem.

To me it seems like a vital project to pin down the factors that make this plant thrive and support the ecosystems that they grow in a way to ensure the production of blessed seeds. The way that dead plant material decomposes is probably another, and perhaps the most important way for nitrates to get into the soil. And referencing some documentaries I had watched before I would guess that being stomped on by herbivores is a basic necessity for the soil, and the disappearance of grazing animals is a big problem for the ecosystems.

Edit: some research revealed that nitrogen poor soils actually cause more alkaloid production. Rue plant health and seed potency are complex topics to be studied...
 
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dithyramb said:
some research revealed that nitrogen poor soils actually cause more alkaloid production
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Very interesting. In rue?

If we assume the alkaloids are for protection, which could make sense for the harmala alkaloids, it could make sense, as sometimes stress conditions increase alkaloid production, such as in mescaline cacti.

It would also be interesting to know if the low nitrogen levels in those cases are low in an absolute sense, or low for the needs of rue. If it's the latter, there would be a golden point were nitrogen is low for rue but still allows it to grow, and where more nitrogen would mean weaker seeds and less nitrogen that it just can't grow there.

I remember having read that rue can grow in very salty soils. It would be interesting to know if that also affects alkaloid production.
 
Hi dithyramb,
That's very interesting about the Bedouin use of broom-laced goat milk. Do you recall where you read that?
 
By the way, just so you know, in case I can't regain access to my original profile - this is wira who has been around on these forums for quite a few years now. I lost my password and was unable to do a re-set because the system said the user "could not be found". So unless I can sort this out, I'll be posting as wira2 and not wira from now on.
 
wira2 said:
Hi dithyramb,
That's very interesting about the Bedouin use of broom-laced goat milk. Do you recall where you read that?
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Sorry, didn't see this message before. I had read it somewhere on this site, but don't remember exactly where on it

Desert Land by Rami Sajdi

Anthropological, Shamanic, Ethnobotanical, Spiritual, Esoteric, Relegious and Historical Investigation
www.acacialand.com
 
Thanks, dreamer042 has been trying to help. And I had to get a password re-set just to log in again as wira2 now - I used it once and then the system rejected it as an 'invalid password'!
Thanks for your reply, dithyramb - I'll report back if I find that reference to the goat milk in an older post.
 

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