extracting psilosybin/psilocin from urine

[sbc1]

Can someone with a chemical background or chemical knowledge confirm or deny this, there's a 14 page thread on shroomery with 3 people confirming this and even the op saying he did an extraction and it worked, I don't belive him and thought I'd bring it here where there's more people that would no than on there. Here's the thread

I extracted pslio from Urine and smoked it, than I was blasted into hyperspace and met mother earth. - The Psychedelic Experience - Shroomery Message Board

 

[endlessness]

I think there's no way this works. Psilocybin and psilocin get mostly metabolized into inactive water soluble products (the correspondent indole acetic acid, glucoronide, etc). Secondly, the excretion takes several hours/days so even if it'd be excreted unmetabolized (which it doesnt, at least for the most part) you'd need to be collecting urine and feces for days, and then extract from all that.

Lastly, you'd need to have taken psilocybin/psilocin in the first place, and you'd never get more than you ingested, so at most a dose if you were 100% efficient. Seems to me like a crazy proposal and a lie/troll post (or a clear case for self suggestion/self-delusion).

Why not just take mushrooms?

 

[obliguhl]

Christian Rätsch has claimed that it works not only for amanitas, and that he gets asked for his urine a lot :shock:

 

[endlessness]

Muscimol is in great part excreted unchanged so its a different story.

Can you expand on what you mean with 'not only amanitas' ? Did he say this worked for psilocybin and if so, did he quote a source for his claims ?

 

[obliguhl]

He said that in a german video podcast. I just searched for it, and it appears jonathan Ott told him that:

The urine of people inebriated on psilocybin mushrooms (cf. Psilocybe spp.) can also be used as an entheogen. Twenty-five percent of orally ingested psilocybin ends up in the urine one to two hours after the mushrooms are eaten (J. Ott, pers. comm.).

Taken from "The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants: Ethnopharmacology and Its Applications"
By Christian Rätsch

 

[endlessness]

This paper says that unmetabolized psilo is only 3-10%, and that its 2/3rds of it that get excreted in the first three hours.

So you got 2-6% of one dose in 3 hours of pee. Does it sound to you likely that anybody is getting anything active out of extracting their pee?

 

[sbc1]

I belive you might be able to but I don't believe he extracted pure psilosybin/psilocin from the extraction he did, that's why I brought the post here so people with the know how could chime in

 

[sbc1]

This paper says that unmetabolized psilo is only 3-10%, and that its 2/3rds of it that get excreted in the first three hours.

So you got at most 6% of one dose in 3 hours of pee. Does it sound to you likely that anybody is getting anything active out of extracting their pee?

I'm with you I just don't belive hes done what he says, surely if it was that easy everyone would be doing it

 

[obliguhl]

Ok, so http://www.jsir.gr.jp/past_journal/2901/0047-0058.pdf this paper says

　Animal experiments showed that 50% of ingested psilocybin
was absorbed by the stomach and intestine, 65% of the absorbed
psilocybin was excreted into urine within 24 hours, and 15-20%
of the absorbed psilocybin was excreted into bile and feces wit
hin
24 hours
59)
.

and cites Aboul-Enein HY: Psilocybin: a pharmacological profile. Am
J Pharm Sci Support Public Health, 146: 91-95, 1974. as a source.

So that's roughly 25% psilocybin. Might be where Ott got it from, and then Rätsch.

 

[endlessness]

In that very thread they post another paper saying a person excretes in the peak period 870 micrograms of psilocin per liter of pee after taking a common 15mg dosage.

Consider that even just a threshold dose is already 3-4mg, so you'd need to gather 4-5l of pee from different people taking a considerable dose of shrooms and collect at the peak hours and drink it all to even begin feeling anything. I think your friends might think strange of you if you ask them for this

And alternatively, how would one even begin to propose an extraction that would not degrade the substance and be as close to 100% efficient as possible?

I'd bet it didnt happen.


(and obli, human experiments > animal experiments .. Plus doesnt say anything about metabolites there. And can you expand on your maths, I dont see where 25% comes from)

 

[MaNoMaNoM]

I think there's no way this works. Psilocybin and psilocin get mostly metabolized into inactive water soluble products (the correspondent indole acetic acid, glucoronide, etc). Secondly, the excretion takes several hours/days so even if it'd be excreted unmetabolized (which it doesnt, at least for the most part) you'd need to be collecting urine and feces for days, and then extract from all that.

Lastly, you'd need to have taken psilocybin/psilocin in the first place, and you'd never get more than you ingested, so at most a dose if you were 100% efficient. Seems to me like a crazy proposal and a lie/troll post (or a clear case for self suggestion/self-delusion).

Why not just take mushrooms?

just wondering.. Could somehow glucoronide be turned into something active?

i went threw the shroomery thread real quickly, and it looks like mostly speculation,
with a few obscure claims of someone drinking urine while tripping and tripping more.

It's not impossible the body could produce something active in urine while tripping..IMO

 

[endlessness]

You mean in the body or outside, like using some process to transform it chemically?

In the body I don't think so, the publications mention it is excreted as the glucoronide (or as the equivalent indole acetic acid or tryptophol), so there doesnt seem to be further transformation happening. And those are very water soluble therefore easy to excrete, I dont think they cross the blood brain barrier and neither are active, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe one of our experts can voice in or someone can go dig into google scholar and use autodock software to predict receptor action.

As for outside the body, yeah you could use the enzyme beta-glucuronidase to transform the glucoronide back into psilocin but the process degrades part of it, as the publication says. And thats not what the person in the thread did. And you'd still be limited to a very tiny amount even if so since thats just a percentage of that single dose in large volume of pee. This sounds even more unlikely than extracting dmt from oranges for practical purposes

 

[obliguhl]

(and obli, human experiments > animal experiments .. Plus doesnt say anything about metabolites there. And can you expand on your maths, I dont see where 25% comes from)

Not taking a position here, just saying what i've heard.

Animal experiments showed that 50% of ingested psilocybin
was absorbed by the stomach and intestine, 65% of the absorbed
psilocybin was excreted into urine

65% of 50% would be roughly 25% of 100%

 

[endlessness]

Yeah you're right obli, though that'd be more like 32.5%, but I see what you're saying. Still that publication doesnt take into account other metabolites so out of that 32% it would only be a small part that is excreted in the first three hours.

 

[MaNoMaNoM]

Cool, i meant outside the body, but 'the enzyme beta-glucuronidase' sounds complicated.

Thought maybe he basified something, because the title of the thread says he smoked it,
but then later he says he drank it, and i did see nothing about an extraction, or anything.

So yes, oranges are the future. Oranges for everyone! Orange you glad didn't say urine?

 

[sbc1]

He did a extraction but he added lye to the urine which created a bit of a clear layer then he added hcl to neutralise it then evaporated it to produce crystals or so he says, I don't no how that would and there's no way I'd smoke it like he claims

 

[Spiritofspice]

So really we need a nexus Bear Grills.

If mush was in season here I would take one for the team.

 

[sbc1]

Yep we sure do, if I had some I'd do it myself

 

[MaNoMaNoM]

Someone found AliG's extraction on page nine.
:thumb_up:
A research paper says that bufotenine levels in urine are (up to 34 w g/L).
PrimalSoup is recreating the experiment now, and will be bio-testing soon.
:want:wondering what tripping on myself is like?!

 

[ganesh]

yo extracted shroom from ma penis juice yar, was extreeemly pissy.

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