extraction of alicia vine (mislabeled as black Banisteriopsis caapi)

[ipumaestro]

decided to brew up 1.7 lbs of my black caapi bought in october of 2011 from kiwi
pressure cooked slightly acidic solution (vinegar in water) 3 times for an hour each
reduced
decanted
filtered
reduced
decanted

bassified, let alks precip over 8 hours
poured off the top and added fresh non basic water, alks didnt dissolve
letting settle over night


i was wondering if doing a manske precip would separate these alks further or work at all....


otherwise ill do what i did before to end up with black flaky fb alkaloids

 

[Jees]

Documented: changing of acid makes trapping of colored gunk possible.

 

[ipumaestro]

ive been using chemistry filters and as of now have a red clear liquid, coffee filters are less fine

 

[Jees]

As the filter clogs up, it becomes "finer", run it several times trough same filter, the dripping slows down considerably and liquid clearer each time.

 

[Infundibulum]

Guys, thanks for doing this work. I wonder how do you know that you're extracting Alicia? Just because of a presumed mislabelling from kiwi? You could be actually extracting correctly labelled caapi that you incorrectly though as mislabelled...

Do you have any photos of your starting material to aid IDing?

Also, have you checked whether anything glows under black light? If not, you should definitely do it. As far as I remember, from endlessness' Alicia analyses, there was no black light fluorescence. IF your solutions fluoresce, I'd first suspect that it is actually caapi you're extracting. I strongly believe, amidst the incidences of mislabelling, that you should always check under black light as the front line of your investigations.

 

[Jees]

... how do you know that you're extracting Alicia?...

Very valid point. In the wake of all the fuzz going on it becomes issue to suspect labels from vendors.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Waitaminute...

Maya's B. caapi "Black" you say? :twisted:

Maya's black B. caapi ≠ A. anisopetala, afaik.

Black caapi (from M4Y4) (lets call this Black caapi #1)
Methanol soak

Black caapi #1
A/B extract from same plant material as black #1 above. Yield 0.5% white powder.

(Sometime I feel like an archivist )

Also, I've never understood white harmalas. The literature describes the pure xtals as a pale yellow. Infund, do you have any thoughts?

 

[3rdI]

i currently have 2 types of "black caapi" from maya, 18 and 38. 1 gave me normal caapi extract and brewed up like caapi and the other gave me results that seem consistent with Alicia. I cant remember which was which but i have it written down and i will update when i get home tonight.

do we know which no. of vine was tested by Endlessness?

 

[Amygdala]

I had one black caapi #38 from maya fail yesterday for an extraction... may well be my process. Trying again today, will post w/ results. Fingers crossed this is not inactive...

 

[SnozzleBerry]

i currently have 2 types of "black caapi" from maya, 18 and 38. 1 gave me normal caapi extract and brewed up like caapi and the other gave me results that seem consistent with Alicia. I cant remember which was which but i have it written down and i will update when i get home tonight.

do we know which no. of vine was tested by Endlessness?

Ugh, well that's annoying as hell :?

Please let us know what you find when you check. There was no indication in the initial thread as to what batch number the black caapi that was tested was from, but perhaps endless knows.

Assuming that Maya purchased A. anisopetala from one of the few wholesalers who exist and appropriately label their products (seems rather plausible), this could be further evidence of re-sale mislabeling. This crap is not cool...it needs to stop.

 

[Jees]

Maurice said not to have Alicia ordered the latest years because Alicia didn't work.

 

[Infundibulum]

Also, I've never understood white harmalas. The literature describes the pure xtals as a pale yellow. Infund, do you have any thoughts?

Could be salt vs freebase. freebases can be cleaned repeatedly with basic water to yield white (or very close to white) powder, but salts are amlost always pale yellow.

I had one black caapi #38 from maya fail yesterday for an extraction... may well be my process. Trying again today, will post w/ results. Fingers crossed this is not inactive...

Could you care to detail your procedure? it could be that your caapi wasn't caapi, but I'd wait for the procedure description first. Also, did you check with black light?

Again people, the black light is your best weapon, if a suspect caapi plant extract fluoresces, then it has beta carbolines that we know how to take out. If not, then it is another issue. It is such as simple test, that even vendors could quickly check their batch of suspect caapi.

 

[Amygdala]

I had one black caapi #38 from maya fail yesterday for an extraction... may well be my process. Trying again today, will post w/ results. Fingers crossed this is not inactive...

Could you care to detail your procedure? it could be that your caapi wasn't caapi, but I'd wait for the procedure description first. Also, did you check with black light?

I followed Pictorial Guide to Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus exactly... the resultant 3 teas were combined and reduced to 4-500 mls, and were a little sludgey. I added lye solution, it turned a little black, though no precips fell out of solution after 12hrs. (added more lye and water, no benefit).

I am currently in the process of trying again, this time filtering between teas and after reducing to eliminate as much plant matter as possilbe before adding lye, hoping the clarity of the solution will make for an easier precipitation.

Hopefully this one works

 

[jamie]

I changed the title of this thread, added "banisteriopsis" into the title..becasue the alicia vine IS black caapi. Many vines are called caapi in the jungle..the mislable on the vine was the Banisteriopsis Caapi title.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

Interesting. I had some "black" caapi that appeared to be this Alicia material but did glow under a black light(a different color than other caapi but still it did glow) it was also very strong, requiring about 5X less material for a brew.

 

[Infundibulum]

Interesting. I had some "black" caapi that appeared to be this Alicia material but did glow under a black light(a different color than other caapi but still it did glow) it was also very strong, requiring about 5X less material for a brew.

so how a material appears to be Alicia as opposed to banisteriosis? I personally think that the whole alicia thing is quite new to the scene and that, even though there may be tell-tale signs, I generally find it hard to believe that everyone turned an experienced botanist and can ID alicias and banisteriopsis after been trained with a dozen of internet photos...

I strongly think that people who think they can easily tell one from another should make a detailed thread to help the others in the ID.

 

[Jees]

The cross section is quite remarkable:

Alicia anisopetala (Black ayahuasca) & macrodisca and related vines workspace - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Tho, the plant world can take us by surprise anytime.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

Interesting. I had some "black" caapi that appeared to be this Alicia material but did glow under a black light(a different color than other caapi but still it did glow) it was also very strong, requiring about 5X less material for a brew.

so how a material appears to be Alicia as opposed to banisteriosis? I personally think that the whole alicia thing is quite new to the scene and that, even though there may be tell-tale signs, I generally find it hard to believe that everyone turned an experienced botanist and can ID alicias and banisteriopsis after been trained with a dozen of internet photos...

I strongly think that people who think they can easily tell one from another should make a detailed thread to help the others in the ID.

Good points.

The material looked unlike any of the other caapi strains I had at the time (5 types)
it also appeared to be very close visually to what was recently depicted in another thread here.

I do have formal training as a botanist and plant taxonomist, but cannot identify these plants readily from pieces of a stem.

 

[3rdI]

OK so using the gibran tek I got normal harmala alks (tan powder) with black #18 but i got black/brown crystally powder with black #38.

I think its #38 which is Alicia, it brewed golden and produced the dark crystals when extracted.

 

[jamie]

Interesting. I had some "black" caapi that appeared to be this Alicia material but did glow under a black light(a different color than other caapi but still it did glow) it was also very strong, requiring about 5X less material for a brew.

so how a material appears to be Alicia as opposed to banisteriosis? I personally think that the whole alicia thing is quite new to the scene and that, even though there may be tell-tale signs, I generally find it hard to believe that everyone turned an experienced botanist and can ID alicias and banisteriopsis after been trained with a dozen of internet photos...

I strongly think that people who think they can easily tell one from another should make a detailed thread to help the others in the ID.

They look nothing alike if you have both dry vines in front of you Infund. Banisteriopsis and Alicia might have a similar shape as they are still related vines, but the color, texture etc is very different. Alicia for one thing is lighter..it has more pours. It is like a weird grey color..no caapi looks like that. Anyone who has seen caapi would know that Alicia looks different if you gave them a piece of the vine.

The live plant I think is what is more confusing..it has been confused with diploterys by many people it seems..