Failed Extraction

[ShaggyK]

Good day everyone,

A friend of mine recently came to me due to an extraction issue. He is unsure as to why it didn't work but has a couple of theories.
He used your typical STB tek with glass jars, 100% lye, xylene, purified+ozonated water, reputable+powdered MHRB, and store-bought vinegar.

During his extraction procedure, he eyeballed most of the ingredients but believes the water was properly basified and contained enough MHRB (about 50g) to have a decent yield. However, he says that the unscientific measuring methods might be the cause but is unconvinced.

After letting the slurry stew in the hot outdoors for about 20 minutes, he added his xylene and tilted the jar around to aid in the absorption. After waiting another 20 or so minutes, as much xylene as possible was removed. It was completely clear, which seemed odd to him. He heard xylene should turn reddish.

Despite the the color disturbance, he attempted to salt out the spice with vinegar. Nothing happened. No cloudiness. No obvious signs of spice.

Confused, he added more lye. Once settled, re-added the xylene. Let sit. Pulled. Still no change in color.

Unfortunately, my friend was unable to continue due to other obligations and had to dispose of the solution.

Aside from the lack of proper measurements, he came up with two other theories.
1) The MHRB was bunk. However a strange ayahuasca trip has him believing that it is good.
2) The ozonated water oxidized the spice, creating dmt-n-oxide which is theorized to be insoluble in NP solvent. Or destroyed the spice all-together.

If anyone has any idea as to why this happened, I will inform my friend.
Thanks for the help!

 

[E-Z]

I'm not familiar with xylene so correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think it's ever neccesary to "cook" the solution in a STB extraction. A few issues could be:
*The solution wasn't mixed well enough, most people gently shake and roll it rather than tilting it.
*The measurements of MHRB:Lye was messed up.
*He used too much xylene.
Either way I doubt it was due to poor MHRB, especially if past uses were confirmed.

 

[Noman]

What does "properly basified" mean?

 

[ShaggyK]

I'm not familiar with xylene so correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think it's ever neccesary to "cook" the solution in a STB extraction. A few issues could be:
*The solution wasn't mixed well enough, most people gently shake and roll it rather than tilting it.
*The measurements of MHRB:Lye was messed up.
*He used too much xylene.
Either way I doubt it was due to poor MHRB, especially if past uses were confirmed.

By tilting, I believe he meant that it was gently shaken and rolled.
The lye to MHRB ratio may have been so very far off that nothing came out. As much as he feels that something should have come with the pull, he accepts the possibility that the eyeball measure technique was the fault.
He tells me that too much xylene shouldn't be a problem. It should salt out regardless of the concentration.

What does "properly basified" mean?

It means that the pH should be at an acceptable level. However the lack of proper measuring tools was likely the issue and therefore not basified enough.

He still has a feeling that it has something to do with the ozonation of the water that was used.

 

[MelCat]

Did the solution turn black?

When you say you left it outside, did you leave it in direct sunlight?

Also when you add the xylene to the mix, you want to roll the container, end over end, at least 5 times before you pull the solvent out. Anything less than that will require many more pulls to get the goodies out.

 

[ShaggyK]

Did the solution turn black?

When you say you left it outside, did you leave it in direct sunlight?

Also when you add the xylene to the mix, you want to roll the container, end over end, at least 5 times before you pull the solvent out. Anything less than that will require many more pulls to get the goodies out.

Yes it turned black.
Not in direct sunlight.
The xylene was rolled around and stewing with the slurry for about an hour when it was all said and done.

I guess my friend will just have to try a different source of water and perhaps better measuring practices. If that doesn't work, I was probably sold bunk bark. Bah.

Since my friend does not have a scale, would it be possible for someone to post a general idea of what, say, a quarter cup of MHRB and a quarter cup of granular roebic lye weighs?

I'll be sure to pass along the info.

 

[endlessness]

Why are you expecting some clouding to happen when salting? It was probably working just fine. Neither the xylene nor the salting have to really change color, DMT is in solution in both cases so its not like color changes necessarily indicate alkaloids. Ive had xylene pulls not pick up any noticeable color and yet be full of alkaloids.

Evaporate your vinegar and you'll have sticky dmt acetate, reconvert that to freebase by doing paste with sodium carb and pulling with IPA/acetone as described in BLAB, which definitely works but you might very possibly get a gooey product that you have to infuse herbs with... Or before its completely evaporated, add some pre-prepared lye solution to it and the DMT should precipitate as crystals over a few days in the fridge (according to some people, personally Ive never tried precipitating vinegar saltings with lye, only fumaric acid solution with sodium carb which def works, but people say it does work with vinegar saltings and lye). Then wash your crystalized dmt with sodium carb solution to remove lye traces, let dry and voilá

By the way as for estimating mimosa amounts, check this out:

Estimating mimosa amount - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I dont think your problem was related to problem of measuring, if it turned black it enough lye, and neither the water be the problem (even tap water works perfect), I really think it was working and you just got confused because of the lack of color changes.

 

[ShaggyK]

Why are you expecting some clouding to happen when salting? It was probably working just fine. Neither the xylene nor the salting have to really change color, DMT is in solution in both cases so its not like color changes necessarily indicate alkaloids. Ive had xylene pulls not pick up any noticeable color and yet be full of alkaloids.

Evaporate your vinegar and you'll have sticky dmt acetate, reconvert that to freebase by doing paste with sodium carb and pulling with IPA/acetone as described in BLAB, which definitely works but you might very possibly get a gooey product that you have to infuse herbs with... Or before its completely evaporated, add some pre-prepared lye solution to it and the DMT should precipitate as crystals over a few days in the fridge (according to some people, personally Ive never tried precipitating vinegar saltings with lye, only fumaric acid solution with sodium carb which def works, but people say it does work with vinegar saltings and lye). Then wash your crystalized dmt with sodium carb solution to remove lye traces, let dry and voilá

By the way as for estimating mimosa amounts, check this out:

Estimating mimosa amount - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I dont think your problem was related to problem of measuring, if it turned black it enough lye, and neither the water be the problem (even tap water works perfect), I really think it was working and you just got confused because of the lack of color changes.

Hmm... Now I feel silly. Everything I've read said that xylene turns redish with jimjam. At the very least, yellowish. It seemed awfully clear in the turkey baster which led me to assume that it wasn't picking up anything. I also was under the impression the the solution clouds when being salted, but now I realize that probably only applies to insoluble salts, such as fumarate in acetone.

I wish I could salvage the product but it's long since been discarded. Live and learn, I suppose.

Thanks for the insight, Endlessness. My friend says he'll give it another shot later.