Hi All,
I found this video very well done and thought U.S. festival goers should watch this:
Enjoy!
[YOUTUBE]
I found this video very well done and thought U.S. festival goers should watch this:
Enjoy!
[YOUTUBE]
-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Festivals & Law Enforcement: Public Service Announcement
- Thread starter wearepeople
- Start date
Good information.
Thanks for sharing :thumb_up:
Thanks for sharing :thumb_up:
Jellyfox
were off to see the jelly fox, he'll give us what
yea zenspice, its a shame that people do that sort of thing but thats to be expected at a big mainstream festival like burning man.
Being able to spot undercover cops is an important skill to develop, looking em straight in the eye is a good way to tell if they're hiding something.
Being able to spot undercover cops is an important skill to develop, looking em straight in the eye is a good way to tell if they're hiding something.
Last year at BM, my only interaction with someone I suspected to be an undercover was rather pleasant:
I walked into an art gallery dome and was peeking about. Literally peaking on mushrooms and MDMA. I walked into a side dome and found a kid completely unconscious and unresponsive. I took his pulse and there was a beat but he needed help and quickly. I stood up and turned around and there he was, an undercover. He looked me in the eyes and said, "He probably had too many mushrooms and Molly" as though he knew exactly why my eyes were dilated and my brow was wet. He calmly said, "I'll take over and make sure the kid gets help." I left that dome as quickly as possible. ;-)
I'm not 100% sure he was an undercover, but my gut instincts said he was.
I posted the video in the OP, not to make people scared or angry but aware. Aware of what to do if you ever happen to find yourself in a grind.
"breathe, breathe, breathe"
"I do not consent to this search"
"I'm going to remain silent, uh huh, uh huh"
"I want to talk to my lawyer, oh yeah, oh yeah"
I walked into an art gallery dome and was peeking about. Literally peaking on mushrooms and MDMA. I walked into a side dome and found a kid completely unconscious and unresponsive. I took his pulse and there was a beat but he needed help and quickly. I stood up and turned around and there he was, an undercover. He looked me in the eyes and said, "He probably had too many mushrooms and Molly" as though he knew exactly why my eyes were dilated and my brow was wet. He calmly said, "I'll take over and make sure the kid gets help." I left that dome as quickly as possible. ;-)
I'm not 100% sure he was an undercover, but my gut instincts said he was.
I posted the video in the OP, not to make people scared or angry but aware. Aware of what to do if you ever happen to find yourself in a grind.
"breathe, breathe, breathe"
"I do not consent to this search"
"I'm going to remain silent, uh huh, uh huh"
"I want to talk to my lawyer, oh yeah, oh yeah"
Excellent information, wearepeople.
Out of ~56,149 [1] participants...
*472 traffic violations
*Thirteen misdemeanor citations (in lieu of arrests) for possession of a controlled substance (marijuana/drug paraphernalia)
*Four drug arrests and four warrant arrests [2]
Law enforcement officers are not stupid. They know what's going on and are fully aware of high substance use on the Playa. Keep your cool, don't sell, be polite and don't cause a scene ... follow these simple rules and your interactions with them will be good ones (on the dance floor even) and not something to fear.
The US Govnmt via BLM creates a safe space for drug use at BM. They have no desire to arrest responsible individuals.
If they did arrest numbers would be *much* higher.
Don't be so melodramatic. Let's look at some objective numbers from last years Burning Man:ZenSpice said:
Out of ~56,149 [1] participants...
*472 traffic violations
*Thirteen misdemeanor citations (in lieu of arrests) for possession of a controlled substance (marijuana/drug paraphernalia)
*Four drug arrests and four warrant arrests [2]
Law enforcement officers are not stupid. They know what's going on and are fully aware of high substance use on the Playa. Keep your cool, don't sell, be polite and don't cause a scene ... follow these simple rules and your interactions with them will be good ones (on the dance floor even) and not something to fear.
The US Govnmt via BLM creates a safe space for drug use at BM. They have no desire to arrest responsible individuals.
If they did arrest numbers would be *much* higher.
ZenSpice
Mostly Ignored
You call it melodrama, I call it expression..
Perspectives differ, hence I think your attempt to justify increased police presence at festivals that are known for people letting their hair down as somewhat odd (to say the least).
The way I see it, undercover cops given danger money to indulge in drugs (so as to entrap the attending citizenry) are hardly going to be seeking traffic violations as a priority imho.
Besides, no festival I know of in the UK employed such sneaky measures (not to say it has not happened or will not happen, just I have not heard of, nor seen such subversive nonsense). They tend to be pretty blatant, walking down lines of people with sniffer dogs and the like. I guess our cultures are more different than I realised.
It's still oppressive and quite frankly a sign of how society is going in the wrong direction regarding freedom of expression.
Feel free to disagree all you want. I am merely reacting to the notion of entrapment by law enforcement, something I do not think is a valid method for creating a safe environment in any capacity.
Perspectives differ, hence I think your attempt to justify increased police presence at festivals that are known for people letting their hair down as somewhat odd (to say the least).
The way I see it, undercover cops given danger money to indulge in drugs (so as to entrap the attending citizenry) are hardly going to be seeking traffic violations as a priority imho.
Besides, no festival I know of in the UK employed such sneaky measures (not to say it has not happened or will not happen, just I have not heard of, nor seen such subversive nonsense). They tend to be pretty blatant, walking down lines of people with sniffer dogs and the like. I guess our cultures are more different than I realised.
It's still oppressive and quite frankly a sign of how society is going in the wrong direction regarding freedom of expression.
Feel free to disagree all you want. I am merely reacting to the notion of entrapment by law enforcement, something I do not think is a valid method for creating a safe environment in any capacity.
:|
Traffic violations are indeed the priority.
Instead, they contribute.
Where did I justify increased police presence at festivals?ZenSpice said:
Did you even look at the numbers above? FOUR drug arrests out of 56k+ participants. FOUR!ZenSpice said:
Traffic violations are indeed the priority.
Yes, it is oppressive for a federal agency to allow 56k+ people onto its land so they can create a city where safe and responsible use of illegal substances is allowed. *facepalm*ZenSpice said:
Entrapment? Seriously? Then they suck at it 'cause there are certainly more than four people out there using illegal drugs. There is no reason for them to entrap anyone... Law enforcement is just as much a part of the BM community as anyone else. They all participate together in the experiment. The Feds can pull the switch on BM anytime they want.ZenSpice said:
Instead, they contribute.
moniker
लीला
LEO has been trying to mess with the festival scene all along. George Bush pt 1 and the DEA implemented operation "dead end" or "looking glass" in the 90s..
articles.latimes.com
Deadheads Fight Stigma as Arrests Rise
Federal arrests in LSD cases have skyrocketed during the past two years as drug enforcement agents aggressively attempt to thwart the drug's apparent resurgent popularity.
articles.latimes.com
ZenSpice
Mostly Ignored
If you think undercover police being given apparent immunity and compensation for taking drugs as "contributing" then you are welcome to that opinion :?
You highlight how only four people were busted for drug use while a major amount of citations (am guessing they were not arrested) were for "traffic violations"...
So, are you saying the logic behind this proclaimed "new tactic" (if it is indeed true, time will tell I guess) is to increase the traffic violation quotient and not to increase the drug bust quotient?
If so then I see your facepalm and raise you a double.
I do wonder if this has ever been stated as a tactic for previous BM festivals, or is it indeed a new (or at least newly revealed) paradigm of their tactical reason for being there in the first place.
Seems (at least to me) designed to increase the smaller figure of the two.
Your assertion that any of this is somehow a part of the "contributory" aspect of law enforcements connection to the spirit of burning man is the most vexing aspect of all. I guess we perceive 21st century law enforcement as a very different entity indeed. Which brings me back to my first retort, perception.
I don't see this "new tactic" as being any different to dressing up a female cop up as a whore in order entrap potential "clients" who approach them.
I shall leave it at that.
You highlight how only four people were busted for drug use while a major amount of citations (am guessing they were not arrested) were for "traffic violations"...
So, are you saying the logic behind this proclaimed "new tactic" (if it is indeed true, time will tell I guess) is to increase the traffic violation quotient and not to increase the drug bust quotient?
If so then I see your facepalm and raise you a double.
I do wonder if this has ever been stated as a tactic for previous BM festivals, or is it indeed a new (or at least newly revealed) paradigm of their tactical reason for being there in the first place.
Seems (at least to me) designed to increase the smaller figure of the two.
Your assertion that any of this is somehow a part of the "contributory" aspect of law enforcements connection to the spirit of burning man is the most vexing aspect of all. I guess we perceive 21st century law enforcement as a very different entity indeed. Which brings me back to my first retort, perception.
I don't see this "new tactic" as being any different to dressing up a female cop up as a whore in order entrap potential "clients" who approach them.
I shall leave it at that.
Can you describe this 'New Tactic' you speak of? Are you basing this off the girl in the video or can you cite sources this is actually taking place at Burning Man? Please, news of LEO consuming psychedelics to entrap festival-goers would be most welcome at BMOrg.ZenSpice said:
Where did I say anything about increasing traffic violations or that there's a some "quotient" to be filled? I simply gave the number of traffic violations in 2012 compared to the number of drug-related arrests. Simple facts and numbers. No assertions.
Burning Man actually is a good model for a society that has integrated psychedelics. I'm sure most of the folk who are worried about undercover LEO lurking everywhere and some huge operation to arrest people for drugs at Burning Man have never actually attended the festival.
Law enforcement presence is not always a bad thing, because there are bad things that happen at Burning Man. Like any other city there is theft, rape, violence, etc.. If you look at the statistics, the incidents of these is much much lower than in a typical American city of comparable size. I for one am glad that there are cops available to deter these types of incidents so that I can safely wander through the streets of BRC in my carefree chaotic drug frenzy.
Law enforcement presence is not always a bad thing, because there are bad things that happen at Burning Man. Like any other city there is theft, rape, violence, etc.. If you look at the statistics, the incidents of these is much much lower than in a typical American city of comparable size. I for one am glad that there are cops available to deter these types of incidents so that I can safely wander through the streets of BRC in my carefree chaotic drug frenzy.
ZenSpice
Mostly Ignored
Very good points Dreamer.
I must say I doubted any huge sting style operation, it would indeed be fruitless and a bit too overt to be practical at such a gathering.
I would be more worried about the notion of gathering intelligence to be used after the fact, or individual arrests/detentions (again would seem pretty fruitless in hindsight).
I am admittedly a shade paranoid about such things (for reasons I wont get into here, mainly because they are based on UK culture and not US).
I must say I doubted any huge sting style operation, it would indeed be fruitless and a bit too overt to be practical at such a gathering.
I would be more worried about the notion of gathering intelligence to be used after the fact, or individual arrests/detentions (again would seem pretty fruitless in hindsight).
I am admittedly a shade paranoid about such things (for reasons I wont get into here, mainly because they are based on UK culture and not US).
Jellyfox
were off to see the jelly fox, he'll give us what
This thread is mainly about burning man, which is a very unique festival in the desert. While you should be very careful if you buy or use drugs do remember you are out in the desert with plenty of seclusion. As long as you exercise caution in who you are dealing with and aren't trying to sell Pounds of drugs you shouldn't have too much to worry about.
I am just suprised that people who are into entheogens would enjoy going to a festival like Burning Man. I've heard a lot of cool things from people who have been that would make me want to go to it, but I've also heard that the majority of the festival is rich, unkind, sleazy people spreading STD's surrounded by fire.
I mean cmon, a bunch of people spending thousands of dollars in the desert all gathering to light this giant "man" on fire, pretty far off from a conscious gathering to my eyes.
Cheers to all those who have been attending Burning Man for years and benefit from the expirience of the festival but I think its high time that festival organizers got more creative and start building better atmospheres for people to come together.
I am just suprised that people who are into entheogens would enjoy going to a festival like Burning Man. I've heard a lot of cool things from people who have been that would make me want to go to it, but I've also heard that the majority of the festival is rich, unkind, sleazy people spreading STD's surrounded by fire.
I mean cmon, a bunch of people spending thousands of dollars in the desert all gathering to light this giant "man" on fire, pretty far off from a conscious gathering to my eyes.
Cheers to all those who have been attending Burning Man for years and benefit from the expirience of the festival but I think its high time that festival organizers got more creative and start building better atmospheres for people to come together.
Burning Man has planted many seeds in people's hearts globally. Many festivals are being started by burners. They're able to take mere slices of BM and recreate it in their local communities.
check out this list of festies: The Bloom Series 2013 Map
Jellyfox said:
check out this list of festies: The Bloom Series 2013 Map
Burning Man is certainly a special case as far as festivals go. The phenomena of festival culture however is global and there are all sorts of different festivals many of which are much more "conscious" and sustainable.
I would suggest rather than rehashing what you have heard about Burning Man you actually check it out. What if you had believed everything you had heard about DMT and never tried it? Some things you just have to experience to understand.
In any case the video in the OP contains good useful information for dealing with law enforcement in the US, even if it does go a little overboard in its description of LEO presence on the playa and/or at festivals.
It's just like any other situation, be smart and discreet, don't buy/sell drugs which is against the principals of the gift economy of burning man anyway, and just go have a good time. :thumb_up:
I would suggest rather than rehashing what you have heard about Burning Man you actually check it out. What if you had believed everything you had heard about DMT and never tried it? Some things you just have to experience to understand.
In any case the video in the OP contains good useful information for dealing with law enforcement in the US, even if it does go a little overboard in its description of LEO presence on the playa and/or at festivals.
It's just like any other situation, be smart and discreet, don't buy/sell drugs which is against the principals of the gift economy of burning man anyway, and just go have a good time. :thumb_up:
Glasters was cool and welcoming up until the mid 80's, then it all went to hell...kinda sad.ZenSpice said:
I think that law enforcement is pretty nice about it in general. When I think about all of the public places that I have done drugs, they were places that any cop would probably know to look for drug users. And yet, nothing happened. From my experience, such events are not shut down unless a noise complaint is called in or people are in danger. I see such places as instances of law enforcement allowing contained and self-regulated drug use, and I'm thankful for that.
There is an unspoken agreement between us and them: They will leave us alone as long as we pretend to be sober when they are around.
My experience with such events is limited, however.
There is an unspoken agreement between us and them: They will leave us alone as long as we pretend to be sober when they are around.
My experience with such events is limited, however.