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Research Finding differences by expermentation

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Bas Sarkin

Bas Sarkin

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I just did a half SpiritVeggie Tek (stb with salt), 50 grams powdered MHRB, and when that worked fine, I did three more at the same time. The average yield was 1.65 percent (still have to re-x). I dont like scaling it to all my stock (800 grams left), I want to do it 50 grams per mason jar (I have 6 of them).

So I decided to experiment a bit with different tweaks: to see if the yield is any better or worse or same.

I have for now these six setups that I can run at the same time, for 300grams of MHRB total:
(a)
Half a Spiritveggie Tek:
50 grams of powdered MHRB
50 grams of NaOH
15 grams of salt
375 milliliters of water
swirl 8 times for 1 minute per pull
1st pull after 24 hours (75ml)
2nd pull after 24 hours (37.5ml)
3rd pull after 24 hours (37.5ml)

the other jars will be exactly the same, except for the difference mentioned:
(b) Freeze/thaw 5 times at pH7 first
(c) put in 75 grams of salt in stead of 15 grams (133.875 grams is maximum that cán be dissolved in 375ml at room temperature)
(d) pull interval of 4 hours each, in stead of 24
(e) swirled 24 times for 1 minute per pull
(f) 75 grams of NaOH in stead of 50 grams

The ideas behind each is: a will be the standard, b will be to check if destroying the cells via freeze/thaw cycles will help, c is to see if the salinity of the soup will (besides preventing emulsions) help 'push into solvent', d to see if waiting for longer is really necessary, e to see if swirling every time the soup is split will grab more, f to see if raising the pH even more will do any good

If anyone knows 'that wont work' on any of these, or have other experiments that would be interesting, I would like to hear them, I can do ten more after these.
 
I think this is the way to proceed, you're on the right track. Experimenting is the key to knowledge. I believe you can find something useful out of this. So, please, share your results :)

My only suggestion is to shorten pull times on all extractions. Experiments (d) and (e) might be unnecesary: I've found that waiting for 24 hours does nothing useful really. However, I think swirling every time the soup is split will have a positive effect. While the soup is separated, the rate of transfer of freebase spice to the naphtha is slow, because there is little contact between both phases.

If you want to shorten the experiment, I would only wait for... IDK, an hour or so for each pull, except for the last one. I usually wait 24h too for the last one just in case.

Another comment: on experiment (b) you're doing freeze/thaw cycles at pH 7, which is neutral. Why don't go below that to pH 4 or so? Acid might help destroying the cells. Maybe you can test this as well?

BTW I think SV tek doesn't include a water wash step. I'd do that for all the pulls too. It's pretty easy, quick, and you'll get super clean spice without losing significant yield.

Anyways, good luck with your tests, and please share your findings :)
 
pantostao said:
Another comment: on experiment (b) you're doing freeze/thaw cycles at pH 7, which is neutral. Why don't go below that to pH 4 or so? Acid might help destroying the cells. Maybe you can test this as well?
Click to expand...
Hmm. Yes, the problem is twofold: that would change two parameters (acid first ánd freeze/thaw cycle), so I would have to split that into two or three experiments (freeze/thaw, acid, acid+freeze/thaw). The main problem is how I freeze it: I put it in a double sandwich bag (so it can expand), which has a decent chance to leak, so having a heavy acid or base inside is a bit risky... I could put it in a plastic bottle so it can expand, but plastic.. meh... and glass can shatter... so.... ehm...
 
Bas Sarkin said:
Yes, the problem is twofold: that would change two parameters (acid first ánd freeze/thaw cycle), so I would have to split that into two or three experiments (freeze/thaw, acid, acid+freeze/thaw).
Click to expand...
This video gives some really useful insights about experimental design (and the guy does a load of other awesome things as well).
 
Perhaps something like this:

exptaguchi.png

The amount of water is added as parameter kinda as filler, it is least interesting I think. If I can come up with a better parameter with 2 settings, I will use that.
The pre-acid treatment is one hour at pH4, then back to pH7, then add the NaOH and salt.

I will have to make all 8 experiments as equal as possible, so the freeze/thawing cycles and the pre-acid require the MHRB to be in the water before NaOH and salt is added, which is a bit of a pain (I do it in clear water now, and add MHRB later, so I can check its all dissolved, and I can let it cool down to room temperature).

A better idea perhaps is to mix half the water with the MHRB (then let it sit or freeze and or acid treat that part) and dissolve the NaOH and salt in the other half, then combine them. Hmmm...

I could also repeat the entire 8 experiments (since I have enough MHRB for 16 jars), which is nice. Or I can test other parameters.
If I half the amount again (to 25 grams of MHRB), then I could do 32 in total, so that might be an idea, but I think meh since the error margins would become much larger.
 
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