Exp. Report First groundbreaking experience

[reun]

Hi all,

I'm relatively new here and I wanted to share my recent experience with DMT. It left such an enormous impression on me that I feel like I want to share this with someone, and I can't really talk to many people about this in my day to day life.

I took 350 mg of harmine and at the 90 minute mark, I was ready for vapourhuasca -- my first one. At first I took a short, tentative inhale from my vape. I felt nothing. I decided to smoke a little more -- about a 5 second inhalation, holding for 5 seconds (from a 1:1 cart). I then closed my eyes and saw incredible closed eye visuals. It was an absolutely beautiful sight. About 10 minutes later, I decided to go again. This time I took about a 7-8 second inhale and held for 10 seconds. I closed my eyes. And what happened next can only be described as a groundbreaking experience. I don't think it qualifies as a breakthrough, I was still aware that I exist somewhere out there, but I felt frozen or suspended if that makes any sense. Then I saw an absolutely beautiful dance. It was at times disturbing and indescribable, but beautiful nonetheless. There were countless entities. I felt like I was one of them. I felt like I was meant to be among them, performing this intricately choreographed sequence. I felt like I was interpreting what this dance means. And in doing so, I felt like I was talking to the higher being. I was interpreting what It was telling me. It was telling me that we are all parts of a greater whole and I must perform my role within this structure. It was telling me that I have strayed too far away from the group. At one moment I realised that the higher being is... well, I felt that the higher being was The Mother. Mother of us all. Other people call Her god. And at that moment I felt like I love Her. Endlessly. I felt tears trickle down my face. It is difficult for me to underscore just how profound this feeling was. I felt like She was calling me to return soon. She has many more lessons to teach me. After coming out of this experience, I was too emotional to go back. I felt like I needed to process this experience. I still don't fully know what it means for me to fulfil my role within the greater structure of our collective identity. But it felt like a starting point. Looking back at it, this is probably a deeply-rooted concern in my mind. I'm divorced, I live alone in a city where I have no close connections, and my family is also distributed around the world. I guess you could even spot that a deep longing for some sort of a reunion with the greater whole is right in my username.

For context, I am not religious, I am a highly pragmatic and functioning individual. This experience has shaken me more than anything ever has. More than anything possibly could. It has made me question my own sanity. My relationship with this world. It made me question everything. I don't think I can call this a "breakthrough" experience, because I was still aware of self and I felt like I was observing the scene in somewhat of a low resolution on a small amount of DMT. I know that I referred to the higher being as "It" and "Her" in capitalised letters, it just felt... disrespectful to do otherwise.

After this experience, I'm no longer looking at DMT as a psychedelic. It may act as a psychedelic on small quantities, but if you go bigger, then it is difficult to see it as anything other than a portal into another world. A world that is more fundamental than the one we inhabit in our daily lives. A world that somehow... matters more. A portal where you literally get to meet your maker. But this meeting is most certainly not for the faint-hearted. DMT is an indispensable tool in one's battle against their inner demons, it's just that most people probably don't want to fight their inner demons. Probably because they don't think they can defeat them.

I will return to the realm in time. But I have a lot to process now.

As for the harmalas side of things, I'm not sure if my experience is a standard vapourhuasca. DMT peaked fairly quickly after I took a bit hit, maybe within a minute or two, and after about 10-15 minutes most of it was gone -- this is longer than a standard DMT vape experience, but not drastically. I definitely felt harmine on its own, but the effects were very mild.

Thank you for reading.

 

[northape]

I don't think I can call this a "breakthrough" experience, because I was still aware of self and I felt like I was observing the scene in somewhat of a low resolution on a small amount of DMT. I know that I referred to the higher being as "It" and "Her" in capitalised letters, it just felt... disrespectful to do otherwise.

First of all, congrats and thanks for sharing

Forget about a breakthrough. This term is not really well defined and means a lot of different things. I'd say your journey is what we're really after. The ego-death thingy is overrated. That kind of experience should come on its own when the time is right.

The Mother is an awesome archetype. It's actually shakti or the feminine principle that makes creation possible and governs life's affairs. So if you feel disconnected or somehow troubled, that's who you need to call upon. I'm not really religious in a common sense myself. I see it all as energies representing a specific part of the whole. The Mother lives in you too - she's the electricity making the whole of life possible. Shiva on the other hand is a representation of awareness, where the feminine is space and a play of energies in it. I love how ancients dived so deep and created maps of the psyche. Reality is so intimate, and all the name-forms are here just to foster the connection better.

After this experience, I'm no longer looking at DMT as a psychedelic. It may act as a psychedelic on small quantities, but if you go bigger, then it is difficult to see it as anything other than a portal into another world. A world that is more fundamental than the one we inhabit in our daily lives. A world that somehow... matters more. A portal where you literally get to meet your maker. But this meeting is most certainly not for the faint-hearted. DMT is an indispensable tool in one's battle against their inner demons, it's just that most people probably don't want to fight their inner demons. Probably because they don't think they can defeat them.

Hold your horses here. Yes, a dmt journey can feel more real than real, yet it's just a fleeting feeling. Any old-timer would point out that grounding and integration are just as important. Yes, meet yourself on your journeys, but never forget that your life unfolds here in the body. Integrate it all to the best of your ability. For instance, I'd find a picture of The Mother that speaks to me (Kali, Durga, Tara, Mary, or any woman that embodies those qualities). Just having it around your space can be a reminder of sorts. You can even foster a connection by talking to it. You're addressing the Universe itself, although in a specific form. Ultimately, The Mother lives in your own Heart, and is never apart from you. There are many chants in different traditions that one can sing. Maybe write a poem about her or paint a picture. Be creative

As for the harmalas side of things, I'm not sure if my experience is a standard vapourhuasca. DMT peaked fairly quickly after I took a bit hit, maybe within a minute or two, and after about 10-15 minutes most of it was gone -- this is longer than a standard DMT vape experience, but not drastically. I definitely felt harmine on its own, but the effects were very mild.

Ha, you'll see over time why rue is indispensable. Rue adds depth and context to dmt, and is the real teacher here. Although it's hard to distinguish between the two, they work in sync. You're not just getting your mind blown, but bringing something back with you too.

Jai Sri Ma

 

[reun]

@northape thank you for reflecting on my experience. I find a lot of wisdom and comfort in these words.

First, regarding a breakthrough: yes, you are absolutely right that it's a concept that a lot of people talk about, but I agree that chasing it is counterproductive. DMT has a lot of depth and exploring it is usually not something that can be done in a single sitting. As for the exact kind of experience you ended up having with it, is deeply personal. And I think we all develop a some sort of a relationship with it. As for ego death, I have experienced it on other pyschedelics and even on DMT, but I just didn't see the hyperspace previously (if I can call what I saw that).

About my take on DMT being a portal... yes, it's a bit of a hot take, and it might be a fleeting feeling, but I feel like when I pick up that vape, I have the opportunity to connect with something higher. Something outside of the ordinary world. Other psychedelics mostly offer to alter my perception of this world, whereas DMT is something else. As for integration -- absolutely yes. I think integration is generally the key part of any psychedelic experience. The visions and altered state of consciousness are often stunning to behold, but the true value of these experiences is what they bring into your sober, waking life. And it never ceases to amaze me what surprises they seem to surface -- you may go with a specific intention into a trip, and you come out with a profound realisation about something else entirely. Somehow I felt that DMT has an incredibly powerful teaching element to it, which seems to stand out more than most other substances I'm aware of.

About rue: to be honest, I still don't quite understand its value. I even wondered whether my described DMT experience could have been replicated without any MAOI. I tried a small dose of harmalas on their own previously and I felt a profound sense of peace, but they interfered with my sleep, so if I were to repeat this experience, I'd probably want to take them much earlier, requiring a full day's worth of commitment to the exercise. I would still like to try pharmahuasca and changa before I rule out rue. Going forward, I don't think I'll be separating harmine, though, I'll probably just use Manske-refined harmalas.

About The Mother... your words about Her do resonate with me so very deeply. I love your idea of holding on to Her in my day-to-day life. Having some sort of a reminder of Her. Talking to Her from time to time.

Jai Sri Ma

 

[blig-blug]

Thank you for sharing your experience. If your experience felt short, I think you may be interested in pharmahuasca. Even though the substances are the same, IME it has more depth than vaporhuasca, maybe because it starts more gradually and you stay longer "there". It's still possible to add vaped DMT on top of it.

Also, with either vaporhuasca or pharmahuasca, you can redose DMT as long as the effects of the harmalas are still strong. And if they are not, you can redose harmalas as well. So an experience can be as long as you need or want it to be.

 

[reun]

Thank you for sharing your experience. If your experience felt short, I think you may be interested in pharmahuasca. Even though the substances are the same, IME it has more depth than vaporhuasca, maybe because it starts more gradually and you stay longer "there". It's still possible to add vaped DMT on top of it.

Also, with either vaporhuasca or pharmahuasca, you can redose DMT as long as the effects of the harmalas are still strong. And if they are not, you can redose harmalas as well. So an experience can be as long as you need or want it to be.

Thank you for the suggestion, pharmahuasca is indeed what I'm planning to try next

 

[northape]

About my take on DMT being a portal... yes, it's a bit of a hot take, and it might be a fleeting feeling, but I feel like when I pick up that vape, I have the opportunity to connect with something higher. Something outside of the ordinary world. Other psychedelics mostly offer to alter my perception of this world, whereas DMT is something else.

Sure, just don't make it into a fixed idea - remain open to all possibilities. Learn to hold paradoxes in your mind and it'll help you down the road

Going forward, I don't think I'll be separating harmine, though, I'll probably just use Manske-refined harmalas.

You're overcomplicating things with rue, imo. Just brewing a tea from it would do, if you can manage the taste. Otherwise, the extraction is simply cooking, basing, washing, and drying (even manske is optional).

About The Mother... your words about Her do resonate with me so very deeply. I love your idea of holding on to Her in my day-to-day life. Having some sort of a reminder of Her. Talking to Her from time to time.

These deep emotional connections are bits of gold that we bring back. Try to make them a part of your life and see what happens. I value what comes to me via the Cosmos, not my premeditated intent.

 

[blig-blug]

Going forward, I don't think I'll be separating harmine, though, I'll probably just use Manske-refined harmalas.

A couple practical notes on that.

- Manske is not necessary unless you want to store your harmalas in salt form, see here: Harmala extraction - unneccessary steps? I still recommend to do it at least once because it's a beautiful process and it's good to learn to do it. But I personally prefer just decanting in a large volume, like the linked post suggests.

- Lower your dose when taking a complete rue harmalas extract, as harmaline is more potent than harmine. Unless you have gone higher already with that (I don't remember right now), don't take more than 200mg for your first time.

 

[reun]

@blig-blug and @northape thank you both on your rue tips. I'm still very new to all of this, but as far as I see it, the primary reason to go through the Manske step is to dose Harmalas properly. From what I understand, the recommended harmalas dose is around 200 mg, but I'm guessing we are talking about pure harmalas here. Manske step seems to shrink volume by 50% or so, so I'm not sure if it means that I should be looking at 400 mg pre-filtered harmalas. I've taken 110 mg of raw harmalas (after decanting) and it felt profoundly calming, but I'm not sure if post-Manske, this would be around 50 mg, which is a very small dose.

As for the tea, I was under the impression that extracting harmalas would remove a significant amount of nausea, and it would also make it easier to dose since seeds may contain anywhere between virtually no harmalas and up to 7% harmalas.

Let me know if you think I'm getting my wires crossed on any of this!

 

[northape]

the primary reason to go through the Manske step is to dose Harmalas properly

Imo, manske is used to get a salt form of harmalas and clean out other alkaloids/plant matter. What you get without it is a full-spectrum extract.

As for the tea, I was under the impression that extracting harmalas would remove a significant amount of nausea, and it would also make it easier to dose since seeds may contain anywhere between virtually no harmalas and up to 7% harmalas.

Yes, dosing and taste are two main reasons why people avoid teas. Personally, I just cook a batch of tea (like 50g), filter it crudely, and test it the 1st time to know the potency.
Because I don't really care about the taste, I usually make it pretty concentrated (3-4ml per 1g of seeds). You lose very little that way, and I only drink my plants nowadays, so it works for me. Nausea comes from harmalas, so it's dose-dependent. Drinking up to 4g (=200mg) of tea rarely gives any nausea.

 

[blig-blug]

the primary reason to go through the Manske step is to dose Harmalas properly

If you read the thread I linked before, you'll see it's not a necessary step to extract pure harmalas. In case there's some confusion about the terms: the Manske step is the step where one pours a saturated NaCl solution into a solution with harmala salts. It's one of the ways of purifying the already extracted alkaloids, but not strictly needed for extraction of pure (and thus possible to dose consistently) harmalas.

As for the tea, I was under the impression that extracting harmalas would remove a significant amount of nausea,

Yes, it does reduce nausea. That's a matter of preference. I think it's a good idea to start with pure harmalas, as when one is starting there are already enough new and challenging factors, no need to make it more challenging. But either way is fine.

easier to dose since seeds may contain anywhere between virtually no harmalas and up to 7% harmalas

While the seeds do vary in strength, they're quite consistent when compared to caapi. The variability comes more from how one makes the tea. It's not the same boiling for a few minutes in a low volume of water than doing several long boils and combining them. But once you've found a way that suits you well it will be quite consistent as long as you always make it in the same way.

 

[blig-blug]

What you get without it is a full-spectrum extract.

No, that's only if you don't purify the extract through other methods, such as decanting in a large volume or acid-base cycles with filtering and decanting.

 

[reun]

@blig-blug, @northape thank you both again for your advice! Just to make sure I understand it right, so it seems that I may be able to prepare my harmalas with a simple overnight freeze followed by one long boil (e.g. 3 hours) of a batch containing say 50 g of Rue and 200 mL water (concentrated 1:4) and then I'd drink say 20 mL of the resulting brew (10% or so, which is about 5 g rue) and that would generally get me where I need to be, but this may first require a subjective batch test to assess the potency, right? I can see how this might work if you have say 1 kg of rue, and you first test the potency of this batch, and then you can just brew the tea for all subsequent batches from that 1 kg. But then I don't actually mind decanting steps, they are not that hard.

Alternatively, if I decant the brew, I could collect raw harmalas. The question that still stands in my mind is this: the 200 mg dosing that we are talking about -- is this based on pre or post Manske step? Because that could make a 50% difference

 

[northape]

No, that's only if you don't purify the extract through other methods, such as decanting in a large volume or acid-base cycles with filtering and decanting.

I see. Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I'm a purist at heart and don't do much purification

Imo, rue is fine by itself, and while you get a bit cleaner mindspace with extracts, you lose something too. Maybe it's just a placebo, but I've never somehow agreed with extracts no matter how many times I tried. I've moved towards as simple and natural a preparation as possible - just boil rue in rainwater.

Just to make sure I understand it right, so it seems that I may be able to prepare my harmalas with a simple overnight freeze followed by one long boil (e.g. 3 hours) of a batch containing say 50 g of Rue and 200 mL water (concentrated 1:4) and then I'd drink say 20 mL of the resulting brew (10% or so, which is about 5 g rue) and that would generally get me where I need to be, but this may first require a subjective batch test to assess the potency, right?

3h is fine, and a freeze-thaw cycle is optional if you've powdered your seeds. You ought to use 30ml of water for every 1g of plant matter for water extraction, so 50g requires 1500ml of water. The pH of your water should be at 6 or lower too. I'd say that 50mg of extract is roughly 1g.

You can test your rue quite simply. Take 4g of powdered seeds and boil them for 30min in 500ml of rainwater (distilled water or carbonated water) to avoid any acid, filter the plant matter with cheesecloth, and reduce to a shot. That's how simple it is.

The question that still stands in my mind is this: the 200 mg dosing that we are talking about -- is this based on pre or post Manske step? Because that could make a 50% difference

You missed your answer:

It's (manske) one of the ways of purifying the already extracted alkaloids, but not strictly needed for extraction of pure (and thus possible to dose consistently) harmalas.

If you did your extraction properly, you can consistently dose. I don't get that 50% reduction. You may lose some harmalas at each step, but your end product should be fine.

 

[reun]

@northape great, thank you! So the idea is that if you do your extraction properly, then there will be no 50% reduction? Conversely, if I am getting that 50% reduction, then my extraction isn't done quite cleanly, and that implies that I would indeed benefit from purification, and it is the pure product that I should base dosage judgements on, right? I will probably experiment with the tea idea like what you are doing, but somehow it feels like the simplest path is extraction followed by Manske, because then I know I have a pure product, making it easier to dose, and the entire process of getting to that stage doesn't actually feel all that challenging.

 

[northape]

@northape great, thank you! So the idea is that if you do your extraction properly, then there will be no 50% reduction? Conversely, if I am getting that 50% reduction, then my extraction isn't done quite cleanly, and that implies that I would indeed benefit from purification, and it is the pure product that I should base dosage judgements on, right? I will probably experiment with the tea idea like what you are doing, but somehow it feels like the simplest path is extraction followed by Manske, because then I know I have a pure product, making it easier to dose, and the entire process of getting to that stage doesn't actually feel all that challenging.

If you just base and wash, you should get relatively pure harmala freebase. When you do a Manske after that, you'd get harmala HCl. In both cases, 200 mg is relatively the same.
If you lose something from step to step, it's the weight of the end result. You can ask @blig-blug, @Sakkadelic, @The Sofa Traveler, @Transform for more info, cause as you can see, I haven't done extractions for a while now. Yeah, moderns like a clean scientific approach, and I'm kinda shamanically inclined

 

[blig-blug]

Alternatively, if I decant the brew, I could collect raw harmalas. The question that still stands in my mind is this: the 200 mg dosing that we are talking about -- is this based on pre or post Manske step? Because that could make a 50% difference

200mg is of pure harmalas, yes.

I still think there may be some confusion here. If you were to follow something similar to this that I linked before: Harmala extraction - unneccessary steps? and do Manske afterwards on its end result, there would be no reduction in weight (other than the yield loss) or further purification whatsoever. You would be just converting pure freebase harmalas into pure harmala salts (weight would slightly increase due to that).

Note that just decanting the brew is not enough: if you make a brew and decant it, what will be at the bottom are impurities. In a brew, harmalas are extracted as salts. You need to basify in order for harmalas to become freebase and thus not water soluble, and then purify the result in some way. The three main ways (on its own or in combination) are the Manske, decanting and washing in a large volume, or acid-base cycles with filtering.

For your first time I suggest you pick an existing tek, be it with or without Manske, and follow it as it's written. That will make it much more clear for you and you'll be able to decide what you prefer in the future.

the simplest path is extraction followed by Manske

If by "extraction" you mean "water extraction" (without adding a base), that's indeed possible, there's some thread about doing Manske directly on the tea. I wouldn't expect the result to be completely pure because you need to use a low volume of liquid and some impurities will cover the crystals, but it should be pure enough.
The thread I've been pointing at has decanting in a large volume after adding a base, not directly after boiling. I've been mentioning it because if you're looking for simplicity, that's simpler.

 

[blig-blug]

The tea will work well too if you follow what you suggest. It's difficult to get rue dosing wrong unless you don't boil for long enough with enough water. Caapi is much more of a headache, I had a batch that required me to take over 100g for a moderate-low dose while another batch was very strong at 40g.

 

[reun]

@northape, @blig-blug thank you again! Ok, gotcha, and just to clarify the whole Manske reduction situation, I was following this guide. There is a discussion on the reduction situation in that thread, here is an out-take:

It's this batch of seeds which aren't actually that strong. Usually the yields are less to begin with and insoluble material accounts for about half of the initial yield. From these I usually get 5g crude with standard methods involving reducing, settling and filtering. This usually cleans up to 2.5g. From 7g the best possible yield therefore would be 3.5g. Here it was 3.4g, so this seems about right. I'll add a note about that in the post.

 

[blig-blug]

@northape, @blig-blug thank you again! Ok, gotcha, and just to clarify the whole Manske reduction situation, I was following this guide. There is a discussion on the reduction situation in that thread, here is an out-take:

That tek claims to use Brennendes Wasser's purification by decanting but, by its own description both in methods (a couple jars as volume) and results (a more impure extract), it doesn't seem to be the case. The water volume needs to be much larger, or else more cycles of decanting need to be used.

It's not a bad tek, but if you follow the instructions there you do need the Manske to fully purify.

 

[Transform]

Don't forget to take a look at the resources section:

Resource icon

Super-Easy No-Filter Harmalas Tek

Jan 31, 2026

No filtering, not messy, easy harmalas for all

• q21q21
• Extraction teks

Resource icon

Phlux's Telepathine Tek

Aug 11, 2024

Harmalas - Separation Tek - Phlux's Telepathine Tek

• Nydex
• harmalas phlux's telepathine tek separation tek
• Extraction teks

Resource icon

Harmine Crystals from Syrian Rue

Apr 16, 2024

Harmalas - Crude Manske (Salt) Extract - Harmine Crystals from Syrian Rue

• Nydex
• extraction tek harmalas harmine harmine crystals from syrian rue syrian rue
• Extraction teks

Resource icon

The Tao of Rue Extraction

Apr 16, 2024

Harmalas - A/B - The Tao of Rue Extraction

• Nydex
• extraction tek harmalas the tao of rue extraction
• Extraction teks

Resource icon

EASY Harmaloid Freebase TEK

Apr 16, 2024

Harmalas - A/B - EASY Harmaloid Freebase TEK

• Nydex
• easy harmaloid freebase tek extraction tek harmalas
• Extraction teks

Resource icon

Harmalas Extraction and Separation Guide

Apr 16, 2024

Harmalas - A/B - Harmalas Extraction and Separation Guide

• Nydex
• extraction tek harmalas harmalas extraction and separation guide
• Extraction teks