First time brewing - misfire

[Smaug]

Ingredients:
3-4 grams syrian rue seeds, lightly simmered for 6 hours total (2 boils, 3 hours each, after the first boil I lightly hammered the seeds so they popped open)
50 grams dry Hawaiian chacruna leaves, lightly simmered for 4 hours total, (2 boils, 2 hours each)

I used a tablespoon of vinegar for the first boil on both the rue and chacruna. Before I tried them both I tested my reaction to the rue a week prior. There was definitely an effect, slight increase in mood and a noticeable body 'buzz.'
I figured it was about right and decided to use the same dosage with the chacruna.

I filtered the brews using a tshirt (and I see now why rue was used as a dye long ago). I reduced both of them down slowly to about 4-6 oz each.

When I drank them, I did notice an effect from the rue, but that was it. I waited 15 minutes after the rue, and started with half of the chacruna brew. I waited an hour then drank the rest and still felt nothing.

I think my problem was that I may have cooked the chacruna too long, or maybe it got too hot? I checked it every 15 minutes, and did notice that at one point it was bubbling a bit too much, but I never brought it to a really hard boil.

I really want to try this again but I'm looking for suggestions on what I may have done wrong here.

I'll also note that I have had three successful Aya experiences prior, but it was not brewed by myself.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I'm an advocate of taking the plants/chemicals together, rather than waiting. I've had less misfires when dosing together than when attempting to inhibit MAO first.

Also, 3x 2-hour boils would probably serve you better...not that you necessarily need to boil that long. The point is more along the lines that more slightly shorter boils can be more effective than fewer slightly longer boils.

 

[PowerfulMedicine]

I'm pretty sure that DMT and harmala alkaloids are completely heat stable at any level of boiling, so as long as you don't let the brew boil down to nothing, the temperature shouldn't be the problem. Keeping the brew at a lower boil just helps prevent burning and carmelization of other component in the plant that can make the brew taste bad.

I agree that you might not have done enough boils. But I don't necessarily agree that you should have taken the rue and chacruna together. From what I've read, proper timing will vary from person to person.

I've only used anahuasca twice. The first time I spaced rue and ACRB 15 minutes apart and it worked out great. The next time I waited 30 minutes and it worked but I can't compare it to much since the dose was very low and only produced threshhold effects.

Maybe try taking the brews together next time, and if that doesn't work, wait 30 minutes the next time.

It might also be that your chacruna is weak and that you would need a higher dose for it to do anything.

 

[Smaug]

Good to know as far as the heat concern. I thought maybe two boils for the chacruna was too much but I'll try your 3 x 2 hour boil suggestion, perhaps for both the rue and chacruna. This is the first time I've tried this particular source for the chacruna, so you could be correct on the potency of the leaves.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[edge2054]

I split up my maoi. 3 grams rue, half an hour later half a gram with whatever else I'm taking, half a gram again with my booster if I'm taking one.

The idea is to ensure my stomach stays inhibited. I'm not sure how valid my hypothesis is but I've yet to have a misfire in all (two) of my journies.

 

[Godsmacker]

Chacruna varies wildly in potency. Some chacruna will destroy you at 10 grams and some will only have threshold effects at 100 grams. If i were you, i would try something else for the dmt portion of your brew which has a more reliable alkaloid content, such as ACRB. There are chacrunas growing in my area and their alkaloid content varies wildly-i always have to start slow whenever i drink a new batch of chacruna. If i were you, i would either try something else as your DMT source or brew up a large quantity of chacruna (150+grams) so as to gauge an effective dosage via titration.

Whenever i brew aya, i use a 1:4 ratio of syrian rue to ACRB and and a 1:10 ration of vinegar to water. I steep it in 3X2 hour washes in a slow cooker, filter via a t-shirt, and reduce to a drinkable amount. I coadminister both rue and dmt-containing plants at same time and almost never have a misfire.

 

[Sabnock]

What i do to ensure that a misfire doesn't happen, is i take the Rue/Harmalas first, wait an hour and a half for the Harmalas to really start kicking in, and i drink my DMT-containing brew within the next 30 minutes. I'm a slow metabolizer apparently, so the Harmalas don't really fully kick in until 2 full hours after ingestion. I've also noticed that as long as the Harmalas are kicked in and active, one can continue drinking a DMT-containing brew pretty much throughout the experience (before the Harmalas start wearing off), as apparently even though the Harmalas are no longer in the gut, they still inhibit MAO-A in the gut and liver, keeping it inhibited apparently until the Harmalas start being metabolized out. It also works that way with Moclobemide too, so i'm more of the mind that one should take the DMT-containing brew after the Harmalas are kicked in, that way it ensures less misfires and you don't waste hardly any brew unless you purge, which if you do you can just simply continue drinking the brew.

And don't get me wrong, people take the two together all the time and it does work obviously, even taken 30 minutes apart seems to work pretty well for me atleast, but this new way of doing it these days apparently feels like i'm losing less DMT than i would be if i took it 30 minutes after the Harmalas or even at the same time.

 

[olympus mon]

50g chacruna is pretty low for myself and many others. Dried chacruna looses a lot of potency it seems. I have drank 120g of chacruna before and it was still a light one.

Next time I recommend brewing them separately so you can re-dose your add mixture as many times as needed without having to also re dose your rue.

Drink your first dose together. I would recommend 75g chacruna with your rue and wait 45 min-1 hr. If your not where you want to be drink another 25 grams chacruna. Repeat as needed. As long as you have proper maoi, you will eventually find your sweet spot for next time by having the ability to re dose chacruna as needed.

Happy travels.

 

[Smaug]

If i were you, i would try something else for the dmt portion of your brew which has a more reliable alkaloid content, such as ACRB.

I suppose I could, though I was wanting to keep the brew as traditional as possible. Chacruna leaves aren't locally available for me, and not very cheap either.

I can't seem to find the information at the moment, but what would you say is a starting dose for ACRB (just boiled into a brew)?

 

[Godsmacker]

I usually dose 8-13+ grams of ACRB and 2-4g rue for a decent experience.

 

[edge2054]

I found 5 grams of ACRB tea and 4 grams of P. Harmala to be pretty intense. I imagine I purged some of both too. 2 grams of ACRB and ~33 grams of Caapi was plenty and I know I purged a good portion of the ACRB.

But I think it depends a lot on individual sensitivity, alkaloid content of your plants, and rather or not you're focusing on the DMT or the Harmala/Caapi. Personally I like just enough dmt/light that I can see but not so much that it's distracting.

Anyway if you go with ACRB I recommend using an egg white or gelatin to pull the tannins out during your final reduction as the stuff is pretty rough on the stomach.

 

[Smaug]

I found 5 grams of ACRB tea and 4 grams of P. Harmala to be pretty intense. I imagine I purged some of both too. 2 grams of ACRB and ~33 grams of Caapi was plenty and I know I purged a good portion of the ACRB.

Sounds like I'll be treading lightly with ACRB, thanks for the input. I haven't actually tried brewing with caapi just yet simply because rue is cheaper but I'd like to try the caapi by itself at some point. I'll report back after trying new things with the chacruna if anything different happens.

 

[Kash]

Your cook times on the brew are significantly longer than necessary. Waste of time. All that is needed is a few 30 minute simmers. Make sure the herbs are well pulverized. The first simmer done with alittle lemon juice (or vinegar), filter liquid, put plant material back in and add more water only and simmer. Repeat until the herbs are visibly exhuasted and the liquid has little to no color, and discard the herbs. 3x is usually enough. Then simply reduce the brew down to a desired concentrated volume by boiling off water and enjoy. That is swim's prefered method anyhow.

IME it is nice to reduce brew down to a shot glass worth. Seems to eliminate nausea and makes the drinking painless. Just dont reduce it too far or it will be ruined.