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Fortified Cactus Extract

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rahlii

rahlii

Rising Star
I was just putting a little thought into a potential upcoming project along these lines -

Dry whole cactus chips skin and all in a dehydrator then powderise in a spice grinder.

Extract cactus powder with ethanol then evaporated extract.

Extract 3/4 of the black tar to gain mescaline hydrochloride and work out yeild.

Combine mecaline hydrochloride with full spectrum extract, add ethanol, mix and evaporate.

Roll into balls and cap for dosage.

There is a few questions some folk may be able to help me with.

Has anyone done this before? What are the benifits or set backs to the trip experience?

Once the yeild is known you can work out how much mescaline is in the black tar and then top it up with mescaline hydrocloride.

What are the best ratios to use assuming the average cactus yeild? ie how much of the black tar ethanol extract should be extracted to gain mescaline hydrochloride. And what ratio by weight should the final products be mixed?

Thanks for any help in working this through.
 
the full spectrum cactus tar is as far as you need to go, ethanol works well though it only makes a weak extract (as in its only a few times more potent than the original powder you extracted)

when extracting and salting with hcl you lose alot of the "primal" aspects (probably found in alkaloids that arent typically extracted through traditional A/B)


ethanol extract is more on the lines of a traditional entheogenic experience, whereas hcl is more of a recreational experience IMHO

for every situation there is a most appropriate way to dose, perhaps you can think of one that this is most desirable for, but i can not. it seems like your going way out of your way to make a novelty product that could have been much simpler.

at this point i just eat less flesh for a novelty experience than more for an entheogenic one
 
Thanks for the background mew.

My first experience I ate ethanol extract but didn't have a good idea as to how much was required. I ended up stuck on the floor of the shower for around 2hours throwing up. After the sickness let up it was pretty amazing. Much better then any of my mescaline hydrochloride trips. This is why I would like to keep some of the properties of the full spectrum.

To work out the potency of my full spectrum I need to do an a/b so I don't have a repeat of my 2 hours blind on the shower floor. I guess I could just try trial and error but given the long action period of mescaline it could take a few hours to experimentally work my way up to the desired trip and then even longer to come down again. I would also like to find out the yield of my home grown cactus so I can work from this figure in future. So given the plan there is not really that much extra work.

I guess if I a/bed half the full spectrum then mixed half the mescaline with half the remaining full spectrum I'd have full spectrum, mescaline hydrochloride and fortified extract all of known alkaloid content to work with. I'd then know the answer to your question as to what this fortified extract is suited to.
 
trial and error is not a bad thing, start low and incrementally work your way up. dont redose. just pick a higher dose next time around. when you get your magic dose of just over the edge youll know your medicine well and would be in the appropriate position to advise others on your particular medicine.

ive found extractions tend to be less potent and often misleading when it comes to analyzing your product, but then again im not a professional chemist... whereas you might be.


regardless keep plugging away!
 
mew said:
when extracting and salting with hcl you lose alot of the "primal" aspects (probably found in alkaloids that arent typically extracted through traditional A/B)
Click to expand...

pretty subjective to say the least. i feel the opposite is true because my body feels SOO better on crystal i go much deeper and feel freer and more "primal"

we should recognize our opinions are just that

imo, purified crystal from trichs, and a few loph buttons are the best of both worlds :)

tar extracts are: hard to dose accurately, slow to absorb into the gut, harder on the gut(imo)
 
tar is easier than flesh as its readily soluble in your stomach, unlike having to digest the cacti flesh. ethanol tar is also full spectrum and mimics a flesh like experience without the gut load of plant. i find that tar is easy to dose if you use simple math. just measure the total youre extracting and divide by the extracted amount to get your coeffecient of potency, then dose according to the original flesh amounts + a little (the amount you most likely failed to extract)

if you did the extraction with an unknown quantity, sample it and see where that takes you... increase incrementally to figure your dosage appropriately


the primal aspect of the experience is (for me) undeniable more prevalent in the skin method and its full spectrum extract (tar), unlike salted xtals

when you dose high enough on either there is nausea as mesc itself is nauseating

on lower doses, i prefer the extract because of the lack of nausea and needing to fast (which exacerbates nausea)
however if youre going to get nauseas on a high dose (imho) its best to get the full effects with the best extraction of all time, your belly

another 2 cents
 
Reporting back on the fortified extract.

I ate on an empty stomach and got the most insane stomach and bowel cramping that lasted like 2 days. I think it must have been because it was fortified with the mescaline hydrochloride (PH 6 as I added a little too much acid) and this sat in my tummy in the resin and irritated it badly. Apart from that it was great.

I plan to mix it in the next extraction and stick with the salts.
 
^ ph6 mescaline is not the problem your stomach is already more acidic than that
resin is the problem
 
Thanks for that dg.

Has anyone had these effects on alcohol extracted resin alone?
 
There may be another possible explaination for the discomfort, alcohol extracts can grab alkaloids that are not normally obtained using conventional extractions or with making teas. Eating the plant likewise can allow one to ingest these, in some cases these alkaloids might be harsher on the body than mescaline itself, which has not caused nausea for me the last six or seven times I have used it, even at fairly high dose ranges.

What specimen, clone or species was used in this case I wonder? Some are more desirable than others for this in that the contain mostly mescaline with little other alkaloid, while some that are widely used have other alkaloids predominating with just some mescaline. If your plant material is not particularly strong yet is spectacularly bitter it might be a clone you don't want to ingest whole or in alcohol extract form.

One potential solution to this is to use the alcohol to extract a residue made by drying out a tea or aqueues solution of the plant. This approach can actually result in crystals being obtained without salting or adding acids, though I fail to see what advantage there would be.
 
as far as this cat is concerned eating enough plant material (of a potent specimen) to achieve desired results has been managable as far as nausea goes, and resin is less nauseating that the plant material. the material in question is t bridgesii.

some tips for managing nausea/stomach discomfort are
1. eliminate excess fluids in the stomach
2. assume a supine position for the first 2-4 hours (until you can comfortably burp without purging/ flex your abbs)
3. refrain from eating all day prior/ and drinking liquids 2 hours prior.
4. do not eat until the experience is diminishing/ do not drink liquids until the medicine is safely digested (5hours or so)
5. keep a spit cup handy and some moutwash, spit excess saliva (dont swallow) and wash your mouth out (also spit)


with these in mind stomach discomfort and nausea should be minimized
 
The Clone was a bridgsii. I live in the monsoon tropics and find that the columns fall over in the monsoon resulting from over watering from the rain. This produces a weak cactus with low alkaloid content. There could be some truth in there being lots of unwanted substances in the alcohol extract.

Might also have something to do with the ethanol. The MSDS sheet said that there was no denature but who know there could have been some undissolved unwanted left over. My previous alcohol extract used 95% drinking alcohol but this is a vastly expensive option.

I reckon I'll just x it with the next batch.

Thanks for your advice everyone.
 
maybe protect your cacti from inclement weather so they can grow strong and hearty

also, having a pressure cooker and dehydrator are essential to cactus preparations in this cats book
 
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