Fourth DMT experience - do I persist?

[nanognome]

Hello travellers,
I have just come down from my fourth DMT trip, and I am seriously wondering if this stuff is for me. I guess I'm just wanting to bounce my ideas off some other more experienced users to make a decision about continuing to experiment with this compound. So far my experience with DMT has been mainly negative. The last two times have been similar: I experience the well-known vibration/hum with intense geometric visuals, and I feel a kind of intense mental pressure, like my mind is being pressed on from all directions. I feel like I might be crushed by it and it gets quite extreme. It's scary but I just watch this, knowing I'll be fine and wondering what comes next. I can hear my own breathing and it sounds tinny and unreal, and the quality of the experience is somehow unemotional, insect-like or reptilian but with a great pressure of purpose behind it. The last trip I saw this dragon - it was just energy, but very definitely a dragon, and it was dancing and winding in front of me, almost boring into me with great intensity. The quality of the experience was very metallic and impersonal, almost cold.

At this point in the trip I feel I am losing the concept of time, that I am a timeless being and my life is a sort of fiction. I am still aware that I will come down and normality will return, but the experience is still extremely compelling. I feel very lonely during this somehow - probably not helped by actually being alone. I've got a couple of friends interested in taking it with me or sitting for me, but so far we've not managed to get it together so I've taken it alone each time. The impersonal, metallic quality is unpleasant and I want the experience to end. It's a claustrophobic sensation, like my mind is trapped in a tiny bottle. Then as I become anxious about it, creepy, disturbing distortions start to come into what I'm seeing. The dragon seemed an incarnation of the impersonal force of death and destruction.

When I come back/down, I don't feel good. I feel empty, hollow and afraid. I had a dream after my third trip that expressed it perfectly. I see this crazy escalator that is kind of like a funnel that goes down out of sight, to some scary place. The escalator is extremely fast, so it looks like anyone who gets on will be seriously hurt or killed. Then I see this young guy in a suit jump on. The escalator hurls him about in an incredible blur, and yet somehow he's not harmed. I can see him kind of running on the spot, like a person running the wrong way on an escalator, running extremely fast but not moving at all. It is somehow a very frightening sight, and I think "someone's going to get hurt". When I woke up I knew it was about DMT: that sense of terrible speed and something mechanistic.

I don't know what I expected from DMT - obviously not this. My second trip was actually pleasant and I was feeling positive about the drug. It was a gorgeous melting sensation with beautiful visuals. But the subsequent two experiences - and the dream - are making me wonder if I want to continue with it. I am very disappointed at the thought of not going further into it, but I don't like what it's doing to me so far.

I read in Strassman's book that when people almost, but not quite, break through, they sometimes feel frustrated and empty afterwards. I wonder if that's it? I am not sure of the exact dose I am taking. It's not very high. I have tripped three times off the first dose I melted into my "machine" - at a guess 50mg - so maybe I'm only doing 20mg or so. I'm only taking one toke per trip, a long toke which I hold in for a good 20 seconds.

I'd be grateful for anyone's thoughts on this. I wonder at this point if there's a breakthrough I need to have, or whether I'm endangering my mental wellbeing, as the dream might suggest, and I should stop.

 

[ayaya]

The special thing about two intervals which are bounded in this blurred way
instead of by points is that in certain cases the answer to the question whether they overlap or are quite distinct is "undecided"; and the question whether they touch, whether they have an end-point in common, is always a senseless one since they don't have end-points at all. But one might say "they have de facto end-points", in the sense in which the development of π has a de facto end. There is of course nothing mysterious about this property of "blurred" intervals; the somewhat paradoxical character is explained by the double use of the word "interval".

 

[○]

The experience/s and effects your describing sound to me like the initial stages of the smoked dmt realm. I find those early stages to be uncomfortable at times, the presure, and alot of the feelings in general.

You said you had loaded up 50mg and were guessing you were only getting 20 or so mg? Well, for me..if I was finding myself in those uncomfortable initial stages I would go for another hit once the experience started up and that would most certainly propel me out of that uncomfortable pre stage and into the full spectrum of the experience...which...more times than not....it's pretty amazing.

Not sure if your into meditating, but I find meditating for 30 minutes or so, silencing my thought...gets me well prepared. :thumb_up:

 

[alert]

Have you tried harmalas? Pre-dosing with caapi tea or even making a changa can completely change the character of the experience.

The majority of my first experiences were negative as well. I find if you work with the molecule a bit there is definitely something to be gained from it. Take your time and don't rush it. It is unpredictable stuff sometimes it may be scary and the next time you may experience an ecstasy you didn't know was possible. Honestly it is still very hit and miss for me but I have much better luck when harmalas are in the picture.

 

[tele]

Have you tried harmalas? Pre-dosing with caapi tea or even making a changa can completely change the character of the experience.

The majority of my first experiences were negative as well. I find if you work with the molecule a bit there is definitely something to be gained from it. Take your time and don't rush it. It is unpredictable stuff sometimes it may be scary and the next time you may experience an ecstasy you didn't know was possible. Honestly it is still very hit and miss for me but I have much better luck when harmalas are in the picture.

Caapi before vaporized DMT is something every DMT fan should try. I personally use about 20mg sublingually before vaporizing. It really makes a difference!

Nanognome: Smoke only if you feel like it, don't force yourself into it. And also doing "warm up" doses might be beneficial. All the best to you

 

[onethousandk]

I have very limited experience with DMT so I can't speak to the dosage/breakthrough side of things, but I'll just add that you want to make sure you're in a good place mentally when you engage psychedelics. How is your personal life? Do you feel well supported by friends/family? Do you view society as very mechanical and cold? These types of perspectives will definitely color your experience, regardless of whether you're taking DMT, LSD, mushrooms, etc, etc.

 

[alert]

I have very limited experience with DMT so I can't speak to the dosage/breakthrough side of things, but I'll just add that you want to make sure you're in a good place mentally when you engage psychedelics. How is your personal life? Do you feel well supported by friends/family? Do you view society as very mechanical and cold? These types of perspectives will definitely color your experience, regardless of whether you're taking DMT, LSD, mushrooms, etc, etc.

I definitely agree set/setting is imperative. I just want to throw in my anecdotal story although from reading this forum I seem to be in the minority. I have tons of experience with LSD/shrooms/mescaline and a whole slew of other less common psychedelics. I find for me DMT has a certain "dark side" that other psychedelics don't. It is hard to describe... but basically sometimes DMT can just be down right unpleasant. It isn't exactly dark per say it is just a very uncomfortable body load and bad feeling in general. I have had utterly beautiful experiences as well. It is really unpredictable for me -- very hit or miss. I am talking about smoking DMT, whenever I have it oral with an MAOI I don't really have these issues. I actually don't smoke freebase without an MAOI at all anymore because of these issues. Most other psychedelics have a pretty predictable action but from one DMT experience to another it feels like I am taking completely different drugs sometimes.

 

[nanognome]

Thanks people for your thoughts.
With regard to my personal life, I'm in a reasonably good place. Of course I have my problems, including feeling lonely at times - having been single for a while - but I wouldn't take DMT if I was in a bad way emotionally. I actually did meditate for half an hour before and listened to some classical music. I had a music playlist of spiritual music there as a backup to help steer the trip in a positive direction in case things were going badly, but it had little effect. The music sounded harsh and somehow didn't touch me emotionally at all. That was the main thing: a feeling of hollowness and harshness.

I'm wondering about my drug, actually. It is of the reddish 'earwax' variety, and when I dreamt about the escalator, I also dreamed about a brown sugar that turned out to be infested with moths -you know that stringy, clumpy stuff that moths leave in flour or whatever. That might simply have been my unconscious representing the infestation of negative emotions inside the DMT (saying this is not just pure, sweet 'sugar'), but I also wondered if the dream was telling me the stuff I have is impure.

Anyway, I'm thinking I might try to acquire some of the white variety for the next attempt.

With regards to harmala, I didn't know about this, though I was aware of the need for MAOIs for oral consumption of DMT. I've been looking into Syrain rue, which I believe I can get here. Just a couple of questions: if I had harmala seeds, how would I best use them (crushed up sublingually with lemon juice?), and what is the effect? Does it prolong the trip as well as smoothing it out?

(Oh and thanks ayaya for the information about 'blurred intervals'. I didn't ask about that, but of course this problem has troubled me, as it surely troubles everyone from time to time! I'm glad you cleared up any confusion. )

 

[Derence McTenna]

I experience the well-known vibration/hum with intense geometric visuals, and I feel a kind of intense mental pressure, like my mind is being pressed on from all directions. I feel like I might be crushed by it and it gets quite extreme. It's scary but I just watch this, knowing I'll be fine and wondering what comes next. I can hear my own breathing and it sounds tinny and unreal, and the quality of the experience is somehow unemotional, insect-like or reptilian but with a great pressure of purpose behind it.

In my first few trips, I would lay down as soon as I was done vaping. This produced a very intense pressure in my head, which at first I thought was part of the trip. Once I did my first trip sitting upright, the intracranial pressure was almost non-existent. This led me to believe the problem was too much blood flowing into my head too fast, as DMT causes transient hypertension. I don't know if this could be the same as your "mental pressure" though.

 

[anrchy]

Sounds to me that you need to try and relate your life to your experiences possibly. For example the claustrophobic feeling does that mirror anything in your life? Are you claustorphobic yourself? Or maybe something in your life is making you feel like your trapped in a situation your uncomfortable with? My negative experiences directly related to my ego and/or tendencies I had that I needed/still need to change in my life.

Also I recommend that you eventually step up to a more efficient device like the gvg. It would allow you to try different size doses accurately. It may be the size dose you are doing just doesn't sit well with you. Maybe you need to lower the dose significantly.

There are many replies to your post that all contain good info. You should be able to find what helps you.

 

[LoneDruid]

I found that dosing outside around nature brought me more in tune with the experience. When I teleported to the hyperspace I was very confused and I couldn't rationalize anything, but that only lasted for a short time as the spirits came and took me away.

 

[murphythecat]

Sounds to me that you need to try and relate your life to your experiences possibly. For example the claustrophobic feeling does that mirror anything in your life? Are you claustorphobic yourself? Or maybe something in your life is making you feel like your trapped in a situation your uncomfortable with? My negative experiences directly related to my ego and/or tendencies I had that I needed/still need to change in my life.

Also I recommend that you eventually step up to a more efficient device like the gvg. It would allow you to try different size doses accurately. It may be the size dose you are doing just doesn't sit well with you. Maybe you need to lower the dose significantly.

There are many replies to your post that all contain good info. You should be able to find what helps you.

have you ever had a breakthrough?

I feel often from you that you simply repeat what you have heard on the net.

 

[Bill Cipher]

That is a very well articulated post, nanognome. No one here can tell you whether this is for you or not. It is unpredictable and can be unpleasant. Everything you mentioned I relate to. But you've gotten some pretty good feedback here, and I will add my own:

For me, the true beauty of DMT begins to reveal itself around 25-30 mgs. Below that, it can be more disorienting than euphoric, as two irreconcilable states of consciousness battle for control. The body load is uncomfortable and it can indeed feel impersonal and mechanistic.

The key to ecstatic, transformational experiences for me is to "break through" to a state where I have no choice but to dissolve into the experience completely. It is only through losing myself entirely that I've been able to understand what the fuss is about. This isn't an easy thing, however, and there have been many, many times when I've simply been unable to make myself go there, but if you are able to will yourself to a dosage of 40-50 mgs (and properly administer it), I guarantee that frustration won't be something you find yourself wrestling with.

I will tell you that I have had the most profound and profoundly moving spiritual experiences of my life through DMT. I've also experienced more terror and horror than I ever could have imagined. This ain't for everyone. I won't encourage you to keep going if it isn't feeling right. But I will tell you with total certainty that you haven't seen the real show.

 

[Psychonaut In Orbit]

That is a very well articulated post, nanognome. No one here can tell you whether this is for you or not. It is unpredictable and can be unpleasant. Everything you mentioned I relate to. But you've gotten some pretty good feedback here, and I will add my own:

For me, the true beauty of DMT begins to reveal itself around 25-30 mgs. Below that, it can be more disorienting than euphoric, as two irreconcilable states of consciousness battle for control. The body load is uncomfortable and it can indeed feel impersonal and mechanistic.

The key to ecstatic, transformational experiences for me is to "break through" to a state where I have no choice but to dissolve into the experience completely. It is only through losing myself entirely that I've been able to understand what the fuss is about. This isn't an easy thing, however, and there have been many, many times when I've simply been unable to make myself go there, but if you are able to will yourself to a dosage of 40-50 mgs (and properly administer it), I guarantee that frustration won't be something you find yourself wrestling with.

I will tell you that I have had the most profound and profoundly moving spiritual experiences of my life through DMT. I've also experienced more terror and horror than I ever could have imagined. This ain't for everyone. I won't encourage you to keep going if it isn't feeling right. But I will tell you with total certainty that you haven't seen the real show.

Great post :thumb_up:

I have to agree... the lower doses can be quite confusing and weird... when you start 25 mgs and up then you dont have a choice if you have taken the dose properly. 40 mgs and up for me is my motto... I've been doing this dosage for probably the last 100 trips or so... and even on the tail end of that 100 I managed to "double dose" with 45-50 mgs in two bowls. Once you start messing with this territory you really have no choice but to give in and flow freely with whatever comes at you cause if you fight it... let's just say things wont be so pleasant. With that being said exploring with extra "rocket fuel" can be a double edged sword. You can get blasted to some truly odd places that no one could prepare you for... so go in with a clear mind and a purpose and things should be just fine.

Then again we are talking about DMT here (RANDOM!!!). I've went into some trips with the clearest mindscape and greatest intentions and have been thrown into galactic circuses that didn't serve a single purpose but to scramble my brain. There's been times where I haven't felt the greatest, decided to smoke DMT on a whim, and ended up in places where If I didn't know any better I would think I was in heaven/nirvana. It's a roll of the dice... but I've stated in other posts that I've gotten out of hand with my dosage and usage before. Negative experiences are going to come.... that's just part of the game but if it becomes a common theme then I have no problem taking a break for a while. You may need a break... and since you have had pleasant experiences with DMT I got a feeling you'll be just fine when you come back (if you decide to take a break). :thumb_up:

Good luck

 

[anrchy]

Sounds to me that you need to try and relate your life to your experiences possibly. For example the claustrophobic feeling does that mirror anything in your life? Are you claustorphobic yourself? Or maybe something in your life is making you feel like your trapped in a situation your uncomfortable with? My negative experiences directly related to my ego and/or tendencies I had that I needed/still need to change in my life.

Also I recommend that you eventually step up to a more efficient device like the gvg. It would allow you to try different size doses accurately. It may be the size dose you are doing just doesn't sit well with you. Maybe you need to lower the dose significantly.

There are many replies to your post that all contain good info. You should be able to find what helps you.

have you ever had a breakthrough?

I feel often from you that you simply repeat what you have heard on the net.

I have yet to have a breakthrough unfortunately. But if you read my posts in "DMT experiences" you understand where I'm coming from.

My inability to breakthrough is directly related to my ego and ties to this plane of existence. I have directly related flaws of mine, including my feeling of being judged by others, to my dmt experiences and inability to overcome them and breakthrough.

Also I have a close friend who had a forced breakthrough due to a large dose. His was very emotional and his negative experience was related to his feelings he has here and now.

I have only had one fully negative experience and I feel as if it were completely made up of my purest fears.

I don't mean to act as if I have breakthrough understanding, just that this is my outlook from my experience and my questions are to better understand it myself and to try an help others understand as well. If I am wrong in my understanding of someone else's experience I apologize. I don't mean to come off as if I'm as experienced as others on this site.

 

[murphythecat]

Sounds to me that you need to try and relate your life to your experiences possibly. For example the claustrophobic feeling does that mirror anything in your life? Are you claustorphobic yourself? Or maybe something in your life is making you feel like your trapped in a situation your uncomfortable with? My negative experiences directly related to my ego and/or tendencies I had that I needed/still need to change in my life.

Also I recommend that you eventually step up to a more efficient device like the gvg. It would allow you to try different size doses accurately. It may be the size dose you are doing just doesn't sit well with you. Maybe you need to lower the dose significantly.

There are many replies to your post that all contain good info. You should be able to find what helps you.

have you ever had a breakthrough?

I feel often from you that you simply repeat what you have heard on the net.

I have yet to have a breakthrough unfortunately. But if you read my posts in "DMT experiences" you understand where I'm coming from.

My inability to breakthrough is directly related to my ego and ties to this plane of existence. I have directly related flaws of mine, including my feeling of being judged by others, to my dmt experiences and inability to overcome them and breakthrough.

Also I have a close friend who had a forced breakthrough due to a large dose. His was very emotional and his negative experience was related to his feelings he has here and now.

I have only had one fully negative experience and I feel as if it were completely made up of my purest fears.

I don't mean to act as if I have breakthrough understanding, just that this is my outlook from my experience and my questions are to better understand it myself and to try an help others understand as well. If I am wrong in my understanding of someone else's experience I apologize. I don't mean to come off as if I'm as experienced as others on this site.

hey,
well you probably should lay down on recommendation dont you think?

I have also never breakthrough, we are both at the same stages. You should simply take parsley, vodka, and infuse your parsley with dmt. I'm sure that this way you will breathrough quite easily.

I ahev myself done changa, and im waiting to find the courage. Maybe that could help you if we set both of us a date and a time, where we would know that we would be two to have a breathrough? That could be motivating. I myself feel myself quite ready to departure. I have stop smoking weed which is a addiction for me and now im waiting to feel completely sober before going in hypserspace.

anyways just a thought!

 

[anrchy]

I also feel the call to dose a breakthrough dose very soon. I actually have a plan to do it sometime this weekend. Problem is I find if I set a specific time I feel uncomfortable doing so. Like I have to just decide to do it when I feel it. Otherwise I end up talking myself out of it.

I'm still slightly confused on why you think I shouldn't be giving advice in order to help others. Some advice I give is advice I have been given. I have learned from this site that using the gvg can be helpful in achieving a more accurate dose. I will be heading this advice soon myself. I may not have a true understanding of a breakthrough itself, but from my experience I ask the questions that I feel may be relevant to someone's experience. I understand what your saying I just don't see any harm in what advice I am giving.

Anyway, this coming weekend is the weekend I think. I think it's make it or break it cause truthfully I am feeling slightly inadequate posting on a forum about DMT when I haven't even experienced it TRUE form. (Sigh) hope I don't chicken out!

 

[Korey]

If I would have quit smoking DMT after my fourth experience, I would have missed out on a seemingly infinite amount of self transcendence and gifts of exploring the depths and boundaries of my mind and consciousness.

That's just me, though.

 

[misterfractal55834]

Have you tried harmalas? Pre-dosing with caapi tea or even making a changa can completely change the character of the experience.

The majority of my first experiences were negative as well. I find if you work with the molecule a bit there is definitely something to be gained from it. Take your time and don't rush it. It is unpredictable stuff sometimes it may be scary and the next time you may experience an ecstasy you didn't know was possible. Honestly it is still very hit and miss for me but I have much better luck when harmalas are in the picture.

EXACTLY what he said for me. Try dosing 30 mg of some harmine or something and it makes the experience so much more awesome for me. It decreases those vibrations a lot and makes the trip longer. You also only need 30 mg at most for breakthrough with harmalas. Also you can continue to smoke with only dealing with one crazy onset as long as you're inhibited. I try not to smoke spice alone, because the vibrations and ear ringing are just too much for me. If you've had at least one good experience I wouldn't give up just yet. I was the same way for awhile because I would have a great experience in then a bad one, and I was ready to do away with it all together. It takes quite a few tries and techniques to get it right just the way you want it.