Freezing Whole Syrian Rue Seeds Seems to Significantly Increase Yield

[q21q21]

Hello everyone,

I'm currently developing a comprehensive extraction guide tentatively titled the "Speedy Harmalas Tek." This work is inspired by the core ideas of Ouro/Mydriasis, Brenneses Wasser, and Gibran2.

Before finalizing the full tek, I'm running optimization tests. My initial experiment on pre-freezing seeds produced a much clearer result than anticipated, so I wanted to share these preliminary findings.

Background & Hypothesis:
The power of freezing plant material to break down cell walls is well-known. Years ago, I froze 3x boiled (spent) San Pedro cactus skins before a final 4th boil and observed potent effects through bioessay, confirming the technique's utility. Seeing this mentioned this in several other forum posts about Syrian Rue, I hypothesized that applying this to whole rue seeds could improve harmala alkaloid yield.

Experiment: Freezing vs. Direct Boil

• Material: 80g of whole Syrian rue seeds from the same vendor bag, split into two 40g batches.
• Process:
  1. Batch 1 (Control): Whole dry seeds were boiled directly in the ~400ml of tap water for 40 minutes.
  2. Batch 2 (Frozen): Whole seeds were frozen overnight in ~400ml of tap water. They were thawed and soaked for ~12 hours (soaking was incidental due to my work schedule). The whole seeds were boiled in the same water at 80-85°C for 40 minutes

Both batches were boiled beside one another on the same hot plate in identical vessels

• Extraction: Each boiled solution was separately strained, and the solutions were both based with sodium carbonate and stirred until the color change stabilized.

Observations (Qualitative):
The freeze-thaw batch (Batch 2) produced at least twice the amount of precipitated harmalas compared to the control batch. The difference is visually clear in the attached photos.

Limitations:

• The two 40g batches of seeds, though coming from the same vendor, could have had different amounts of harmalas
• The extended soak time for the frozen batch may have contributed to the yield. An ideal control would have involved soaking both batches.

Despite these limitation, the observed increase in yield is enough for me to proceed assuming freezing works and using it as a key technique used in further tests. The upcoming tests are on water volume and boil time. This will culminate in a full 100g test of the entire extraction method, the core technique other than using whole seeds being washing and decanting over filtration.

I'm motivated to compile this new, pictorial whole-seed tek for two reasons:

1. After just doing 2 tedious and messy extractions using powdered rue that took over 1.5 weeks to complete, I believe the community would benefit from a clear, streamlined whole-seed guide using modern methods. Speaking of less-than-modern teks, I should note that just like "my" DMT tek, I will mostly be expanding-on and taking pictures of the great ideas of others while making sure to credit their work.
2. As a Canadian dealing with some months-long online college delays from an American university, I need a project to focus on!

I'll post the complete "Speedy Harmalas Tek" on the nexus and wiki after final testing. Your thoughts and feedback on these initial results are welcome.

 

[Nydex]

Awesome stuff @q21q21! Double the yield is insane! I have about a kilo of crushed seeds sitting around and have been considering extracting the alkaloids from them, but knowing how long the filtration step is going to take is just putting me off it and I'm keeping them for fresh tea prep. I suppose it's time to get some whole seeds and I'll be looking forward to your controlled, detailed research on this. Thanks for putting in the effort

 

[Sakkadelic]

The extended soak time for the frozen batch may have contributed to the yield. An ideal control would have involved soaking both batches.

I think yes that plays a significant role, the seeds when soaked soften and expand to double the size making it easier for the alkaloids to come out during the first boils as opposed to starting with dry hard seeds. Freezing maximizes this effect.

Soaking the seeds first until they are fully hydrated then freezing is better ime since they might not have enough time to fully absorb the water before it freezes.

 

[northape]

Good to know. I've experimented with freezing whole seeds and liked the results. However, I've stopped and now just soak the seeds overnight and boil small batches.
I do 70g at a time, and it fits nicely in the cookware I use. If you are just preparing a tea for drinking, filtration is not necessary and the whole process is very fast. My tea from 70g lasts for at least a month, and I prefer working with fresh teas anyway. If I were doing an extraction, I'd follow your route for sure.

 

[q21q21]

Hey guys, so far I've finished 3 more tests, just 2 more to go until the tek write-up can be finished.

Volume test - reducing the liquid volume to 5ml per 1g from 10ml reduced the first pull yield by 40-50%
Cook duration test - reducing the cook duration to 15 minutes from 40 minutes reduced first pull yield by 50-60%
(above tests had freeze and thaw done)

96g whole rue seeds soaked and frozen. Thawed then simmered for 40min in ~1000ml water
Picture attached of very nice first pull. mostly settled. To this point it was exactly 1 hour and 20 minutes!

The next tests will be accurate timing of the settling/decanting process & assessment of the yield and boiling time of the 2nd pull.

 

[TransistorBass]

Would adding some Vinegar for a soak before Freezing increase yield?

 

[q21q21]

Would adding some Vinegar for a soak before Freezing increase yield?

I actually considered that. Probably wouldn't hurt. I didn't want to add that as a variable to my tests though.

That last picture is actually a boil in which I accidentally forgot to add vinegar and seemed to result in a very similar yield as my other tests. I personally will continue to use vinegar and may add it before freezing because it is super easy and could help a bit in the yield.


Edit: Don't need to bump this thread, but the 1st pull in the picture above ended up being 2.32g after washing, 2.4%.