Fumarate to free base using water

[tango]

Hi,

I tried to convert using Amor Fati's method (with water and sodium carbonate), but i can't figure out how to properly remove the carbonate. Upon mixing together the dmt fumarate and sodium carbonate and adding a little water to the mix, I got a perfectly homogeneous looking paste.

Next, I spread a thin layer of that brownish paste on a glass dish and it still looked homogeneous, so when i tried to wash off the carbonate, the top layer of the paste dissolved, leaving behind more of the same. I added more water and continued swirling until the whole thing dissolved. This is what it looks like, a few hours later (first picture; the second picture shows the fumarate).

Does anyone know what the layer on the bottom is and if I can somehow recover the spice from the solution?
thanks

edit: I think the brownish oily stuff on the right might be the spice; I removed the water with the white sediment and washed the dish with plenty of fresh water, but an oily coating won't dissolve.. ummm

edit 2: i collected all the oily stuff, dried it and smoked it. And nothing.
I'm pretty sure it was dmt, as i put a tiny bit on my tongue and it burned quite a lot. And I used the GVG to vaporize the entire amount (50-60mg) in one shot, held my breath, all that. I even got dilated pupils ..

 

[Xt]

This may be helpful.

DMT fumarate conversion comparison (pics) - FASA/FASI/FASW - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[tango]

Thank you xtechre. I like the tek that uses water (I don't have any acetone and I can't really start evaporating smelly petrochemicals at home), but 5 days ?! I'm usually more patient, but I've been waiting sooo long for the materials to arrive that at this point 5 days seems like a really long time :roll:

There's a thread that i can't find right now describing a 10 minute conversion where you dissolve the fumarate in water over-saturated with sodium carbonate, shake vigorously and put in the fridge for a few minutes. Has anyone had any success with that?

 

[endlessness]

Tango, the different methods for conversion are in the WIKI, you can check here:

Fumarates to Freebase Conversion TEK - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

the one you just mentioned is type 2. I've read some people having problems but also people having success.. If you cant wait 3 days (though I think if you know how powerful these experiences are, 3 days are nothing), then try it out with half your yield, while with the other half you try the longer conversion (type 1). Like this you can compare the yields and if something goes wrong in one or the other you'll be fine.

Tell us how it went!

 

[tango]

Thank you Endlessness, that's a very nice thread to learn about the various options one has. I only have about 1g of fumarate left, as I have already wasted about half of the yield in my previous attempt to freebase it (and also by trying to smoke some).

Anyway, one of the reasons I'm going for the fast method is the fact that from my first freebasing attempt I still managed to isolate about 60mg of (what i believe to be) spice. However, when I vaporized it in the GVG I didn't get anything besides dilated pupils, so I don't know what to believe. The substance was light brown in color, burned and numbed my tongue when I tasted a tiny bit of it, did not dissolve in water and evaporated in one shot.

Also, when I smoked the fumarate (at the end of the extraction tek that I used it said 'handle with care and sincerity', so I threw some of the stuff in my pipe without thinking twice )I did get some sort of body high for a little bit (along with pain in the lungs). I really hope I've extracted the spice and not some inactive brown oil from the mimosa.

Btw, is it safe to use plastic containers when working with the fumarates, carbonates, etc (that is, everything other than solvents)?

 

[endlessness]

Here's possibilities I can think of:

1- Bad mimosa (where is it from? does the supplier get good reviews in the supplier section?)
2- Bad extraction/chemicals (what method did you do and are your chemicals clean?)
3- Your conversion wasnt thorough and you had unreacted dmt fumarate (did you use enough sodium carbonate? Did you mix well?)
4- You didnt separate well and pulled too much sodium fumarate (from the reaction of sodium carb and dmt fumarate/fumaric acid) and not much of your product was actually dmt
5- DMT melted in your vaporgenie (did you add a liquid pad or innert metal scrub or leaf bed to trap melting dmt?)
6- Your vaporgenie technique wasnt good (did you ever have success with your vaporgenie? Did you maybe not hold the smoke long enough? Was there leftover dmt in the pipe?)

Now you have to think and change variables to eliminate the different possibilities and find out where its going wrong.

In any case I still recommend you divide your 1g in two batches and test two different methods of converting different from what you tried (so one of the ones from the wiki) and see what works best for you. Dont throw anything away before youre done

What kind of plastic is the container? They should be safe with unreactive material such as fumarates and carbonates, but depending on plastic I wouldnt use hydroxides. Google "chemical compatibility + name of chemical/container type" and see if you get better info. Also notice that some plastics may have plasticizers from production which can leach to material. So either try to make sure its clean good plastic (maybe already propper lab plastic made for this kind of storage) or better store in glass

Good luck

 

[tango]

Thank you for taking the time to analyze my not quite successful first extraction
The mimosa is probably good, as the seller has great reviews and I can only say good things about their customer service. I believe it's called Heavenly Botanical. Speaking of customer service, Green Terpene is the worst I've seen yet and I definitely recommend Citrus Depot.

I used Amor Fati's tek, where limonene is the only solvent involved; everything else is basically food stuff. For the calcium hydroxide I used something that comes in a small green container and it's sold at indian spice stores; according to the package and the website, it's pure calcium hydroxide and water. I used about 40/60 fumarate/calcium carbonate.

I don't understand the 4th hypothesis. Is sodium fumarate insoluble in water and does it numb your tongue/lips? Because I repeatedly washed the final product and whatever it was, it did not dissolve. Besides, from what I've read thus far, acidic compounds don't vaporize, they burn; which is exactly what happened when i tried to smoke the dmt fumarate. However, the final product (which I hope was dmt) was vaporized almost entirely in one single shot (there are some traces left on the filter).

I used the glass genie with 10 filters.

My smoking technique is definitely not good, as I never smoke. I did hold my breath for as long as I could (maybe 1 minute passed from the moment I started inhaling till I exhaled), but I didn't feel any taste or warm air or anything. However, something I must have inhaled, cause my pupils were really dilated, but nothing else...

I was thinking of using plastic because it's hard working with mason jars when you're dissolving half a gram of something in 7ml of something else.

As far as my second freebasing, I didn't get much, but it's probably enough for one shot. Oily light brown substance stuck to the walls of the container. Is there a way to test (at home, that is) if it's DMT and how pure ?

edit: it works : )

 

[tango]

This tek Fumarates to Freebase Conversion TEK - DMT-Nexus Wiki advises the use of hot water (near boil) to dissolve the fumarate. If DMT evaporates at 44-60 C, isn't bringing the fumarate close to 100 C a bad idea?

 

[endlessness]

dmt definitely does not evaporate at 44-60c, those numbers are absolutely wrong, as shulgin has confirmed. Plus, dmt salts boil at higher temperature than freebase, so even less to worry. Dont worry hot water to dissolve fumarate will be perfectly fine

 

[tango]

Thank you. It kind of goes without saying that if the conversion method is still there, it means that it probably works, but it's always nice to understand what's going on. Also,in my extraction tek (the non-toxic approach) and I believe in some other places it says that temperatures higher than 120F (~ 50C) should not be used to evaporate the water (btw, it took mine almost 3 days to evap, I'll use less next time).