Glass bottle with plastic lid

[bigtdotcom]

Hi guys, just a quick question about an extraction vessel.

So the other day at the super market I came across a 2 liter glass milk bottle that i though would be perfect for my next extraction using earthwalker's tek.

When I got the bottle home i noticed the plastic lid was made from LDPE and now I'm wondering if this will be safe to use? I have heard that HDPE is the best type of plastic to use.

Is there a chance that this lid could contaminate my spice ??

Thanks

 

[Orion]

Plastic (HDPE included) is no longer recommended whatsoever for the usual suspect hydrocarbon solvents like naphtha, hexane and heptane. It might not be the most well known information but it has been established for quite some time. But since most of those come with some form of plastic cap anyway, it seems unavoidable unless some form of non-plastic seal between the cap and the the lid is present. PTFE is the only recommended plastic for use in these situations.

LDPE is definitely not recommended, though I doubt you will notice the amount of contamination it could impart. It's up to you whether you care or not. Dry teks of course require no lids, so if you don't have an all-glass vessel and lid you might want to try that route.

Still we have to ask, does it matter? If nearly all the commonly used hydrocarbon solvents come with plastic caps then the solvent is going to be contaminated from the word 'go'.

 

[bigtdotcom]

Thanks for the fast response Orion! I might just hold off to start my next extraction until some other members chip in so I can make an educated decision to use it or not.
Thanks

 

[starway6]

In my experiance.. Clear Glass quart vinegar ..[narrow necked bottles].. are best to use..
They often have a plastic screw on caps with a liner designed to resist ....
light acids such as vinegar...

Over time the liner may degrade from napatha contact a little.. but it still works fine...

Forget about quart mason jars! ...they are too much trouble and too easy to spill..and the wide mouth jars [alow a lot more fumes!] to get into the air faster than the narrow necked vinegar bottles...

The narrow neck is best to use with a pipette when removing the top napatha layer...

Any time you can cut down on the amount of fumes the better...

The vinegar bottles work well in hot water baths too...

 

[null24]

Okay, forgive me for not looking this up but maybe the info needs a home here anyway. Ive been wondering. What about cork? Other than of course absorbing a little, can it be used to cap an e.v.?

 

[concombres]

Okay, forgive me for not looking this up but maybe the info needs a home here anyway. Ive been wondering. What about cork? Other than of course absorbing a little, can it be used to cap an e.v.?

I'd like to see that info too.
It's very hard to find a glass container with a glass top.
I have one & have not come across another one for use in cleanup steps :thumb_dow

 

[bigtdotcom]

so can I use the LDPE lid?

 

[null24]

so can I use the LDPE lid?

I think it was Orion who said that the LDPE is NOT safe to use, per se, but that you may not notice anything in your final product. Guess it all depends on how much cancer you like in your spice.

 

[witch.dokta]

Okay, forgive me for not looking this up but maybe the info needs a home here anyway. Ive been wondering. What about cork? Other than of course absorbing a little, can it be used to cap an e.v.?

I used a Patron bottle for an A/B extraction once. I wouldn't recommend it as the cork absorbs a bit of both the naptha and aqueous layer. I don't know about short term use, but I removed the cork a couple months after the extraction and the bottom of it was slimy from the lye and or naptha eating away at it, and smelled disgusting.

EDIT: You can find glass bottles with glass stoppers all over the internet. Ebay is your friend.

 

[bigtdotcom]

Thanks for all the input....I've decided NOT to use the mentioned glass bottle with plastic lid.

 

[bigtdotcom]

Sorry one last question....would putting a layer of say aluminum foil between the lid and the bottle be safe/recommended thing to do?

 

[WanderingTraveler]

I wouldn't suggest using aluminum foil...

Something tells me that lye & naptha don't get along to well with aluminum foil.
But that's just me.

I've always used vessels with metal lids, always made sense to me.

I would recommend going to your local corner-store and take a look at their juices.
Not sure where you live, but around me, there's a few different drinks that are bottled in glass, with metal lids. (if you're doing a small extraction)
Relatively cheap, and they work.
If you're looking to do a sizable extraction, Growlers are rather easy to get a hold of (their used in beer brewing and sometimes wine storage)
Also Cheap.

I mean, Im no CYB (HAHAHA) but I'd like to think I know my way around an extraction.

Just my opinion though.


Thanks for reading!

Travel Safely.

 

[Orion]

WanderingTraveler is correct about aluminum. Lye solution will start degrading it instantly. If you find a metal lid be sure to check if it's aluminum. A lot of metals will probably degrade eventually though.

For what it's worth I think a lot of plastic hexane / heptane and naphtha lids are made of polypropylene, but it still isn't recommended for just the same reasons as other plastics. The manufacturers have cleaning car panels and thinning paint in mind afterall, not so much producing vaporizable hallucinogens

 

[Firemetal420]

Sorry one last question....would putting a layer of say aluminum foil between the lid and the bottle be safe/recommended thing to do?

I would say that aluminum foil isn't the idea to go with for several reasons but if you can't find a suitable bottle with a suitable lid then maybe do what swim did which is go and get an extra set of chemical gloves and carefully carve a seal to fit in the lid... just make sure it seals correctly because you don't want anything leaking out of it before you want it to... Good luck

 

[null24]

This is actually a good thread, vessels are hard to find. Growlers are very popular here ,there's all kinds of beer halls that fill them here in the land of weed strippers ales and trees.

I thought that they all were like the Grolsch beer bottles, idk what you call them, but with the little ceramic cap and wire deal tops . Don't they have a red rubber gasket that would react with the naps?

 

[t0t0t0]

Yes indeed bottles with ceramic lid seem to be easier to find than bottles with glass lid. I guess there are no problems in using ceramic lid ?

 

[Orion]

Yes indeed bottles with ceramic lid seem to be easier to find than bottles with glass lid. I guess there are no problems in using ceramic lid ?

Ceramic on glass would be ideal, but most of them appear to have rubber seals. Rubber is far worse than plastic for this purpose.

 

[geeg30]

I would say your making a mountain out of a molehill. The chances of super contamination are very slim at best. We (mostly) all live in a society that has contaminants everywhere from vehicle fumes to additives in our food and water - a little plastic contamination will not be the death of you.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Yes indeed bottles with ceramic lid seem to be easier to find than bottles with glass lid. I guess there are no problems in using ceramic lid ?

Ceramic on glass would be ideal, but most of them appear to have rubber seals. Rubber is far worse than plastic for this purpose.

Using a silicone washer as a replacement is entirely feasible. Silicone does absorb liquid hydrocarbons, with slight swelling, but is otherwise unaffected by them. After contact with 2% NaOH solution for a week there is less than 1% loss of mass. Silicone rubber should not contain any nasty plasticizers either.

Resistance to oils, solvents, and other chemicals Silicone rubber has outstanding resistance to oil at high temperatures. Among common organic rubbers, nitrile rubber and chloroprene rubber have somewhat higher oil resistance at temperatures below 100°C, but at higher temperatures silicone rubber is superior.

Silicone rubber also has excellent resistance to solvents and other chemicals. It is essentially unaffected by polar organic compounds (aniline, alcohol, etc.) or dilute acids or bases, with the increase in volume due to swelling in the range of only 10%–15%.

Silicone rubber does swell in non-polar organic compounds like benzene, toluene and gasoline; but unlike most organic rubbers, it does not decompose or dissolve, and will return to its former state when the solvent is removed. Silicone rubber is, however, adversely affected by strong acids and bases, so it should not be used where it will come in contact with such chemicals.

Typically, the effects of solvents on silicone are evidenced by the swelling, softening and reduced strength of the rubber; the extent of these effects depends on the type of solvent involved.

Check the table on page 6 of this document.

 

[bigtdotcom]

Thanks for the on going input guys. Much appreciated, I still have the originally bottle I was posting about but don't think i will be using it. I've since came across 2 vessels that maybe better choices.

The first is a large juice bottle, think it is about 3.5 liter, made from glass and has a metal lid.

The second one i just came across in a hardware store, Its glass, has a kinda thin neck, roughly 2 liter, has a glass lid but some type of hard plastic as a stopper to hole the lid in place. The only thing concerning me about the second bottle is the plastic stopper.

Which bottle would you choose?