''good vs evil''?

[SoulCrushingBass]

All this about "evil" and darkness got me talking with a friend who deals with energies. He does believe in evil, as where I don't see.it as self existing. But he had a good point from his beliefs. Evil, or darkness, cannot control free will, you can only be as vulnerable as you let yourself be. They can distort perception and manipulate senses he says. Makes me remember McKenna; don't give way to astonishment.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

First of all, I think the terms good & evil are relativistic and amount to saying nothing more than better and worse. It is always a matter of compared to what? IMHO.

I don't believe in pure evil. I think that all conscious beings that aren't truly ascended masters... are insane to some degree. The more insane one is, the more irrationally and anti-life one will behave. Dark entities tend to range from demonic (chaotic rage filled madness) to devilish (cold sadistic criminally insane).

You will notice that in my posts I talk about dark and light (sometimes angelic or demonic), but I tend to avoid the terms good and evil. This is because these beings appear as living darkness & living light. If you've seen them, you know what I mean. It is a description of their appearance rather than a judgment about some universal good vs. evil meme.

Personally, I see that there are a wide spectrum of beings in Hyperspace, the Astral Plane, and various Dreamworlds I know. It is not a dualistic worldview. Light beings feel sorry for the crazies... they just can't infringe on the free will to be insane.

The dark entities tend to be abusive and parasitic. This is not mumbo jumbo or merely my opinion.

Read through 1000 trip reports (seriously, do it), and you will find that the dark entities invariably are the ones who kidnap and torture people... often sucking out some life force or feeding hungrily on their emotions. You will not find a single trip report on any of the major sites where a dark, malevolent entity gave anyone a purely blissful or uplifting experience.

On the other side of the fence, there are tons and tons of trip reports showing glorious beings of light and wisdom gifting travelers with information, wisdom, prophetic visions, and understanding of the cosmos. How many trip reports have you read where light beings soul raped someone?

Critical thinking...

It is not the mark of a critical mind to dismiss phenomena and evidence out of hand simply because it contrasts sharply with one's current world view. To say that supernatural hocus pocus is laughable and makes us all look bad is a mark of one's own insecurities.

The trip reports of the web are a form of evidence gathered by explorers. They are not all that different from the journals of the explorers of old. Mind you, there were plenty of people in Europe who disregarded fanciful tales of whales, golden statues, pyramids in the jungles, and giant sequoia trees.

We must look objectively at our own experiences, as well as those of the thousands of others who feel the burning need to share their adventures. The overwhelming picture painted by these reports is that:

A) A huge number of people come in contact with alien intelligences that demonstrate, in no uncertain terms, that they are well beyond the level of our most brilliant minds.

B) Said entities come in a variety of flavors... loosely grouped into dark and light camps.

C) The darker entities tend to be mischievous and can become downright malevolent. They are reported as sadistically enjoying torturing unfortunate psychonauts. Many accounts show them as parasitic beings who not only prey on us, but attach themselves to us and continue to feed.

D) Light beings are immeasurably more powerful than the dark beings. Even a single angelic presence can scare away hordes of sucky negatrons.

E) Nearly all the insights and wisdom given to travelers in trip reports come from the light beings. They also tend to be the ones who guide trippers to blissful realms and gilded wonderlands.

So. Should we discount all of this because it makes certain hardcore materialists jittery?

I say no.

The only major study of DMT done in the past 30 years concluded that the vast majority of test subjects reported that they had alien encounters. Many of them were terrifying. (Rick Strassman's studies chronicled in THE SPIRIT MOLECULE)

Again, should we discount this off hand? Is there any other study to point to with even slightly contradictory data? Is it just artistic license that caused Mr. Strassman to name DMT the Spirit Molecule?

Even here, in this bastion of rationality in a sea of entheogenic fruitcakes and nutjobs... what terms does the great Trav ascribe to us as rankings... Spirit, Astral Planer, Infinite Being etc.

While I am sure that these are done in jest... they show an understanding of the basic memes that go with spice exploration.

For me, the idea that these trip reports coincide like hand in glove with the writings of just about every spiritual tradition on the planet... seems to be well beyond coincidence. I won't go into all the tens of thousands of documents that describe spirits and entities in detail. Let's just say that they continue to be among the most popular books of all time.

If people out there feel that their strict scientific materialist worldview amounts to the majority view of reality, I would have to tell them they are wrong. Statistically speaking, the vast majority of people in the world ascribe to some spiritual beliefs.

Furthermore, materialism is not even necessarily the most logical or rational of stances. The most cutting edges of science begin to sound awfully mystical when the try and explain the known phenomena of the cosmos. Just try reading the various "many worlds" theories without thinking about Carlos Castaneda or the Tibetan Book Of The Dead.

Science represents the culmination of a lot of very developed left-brained inquiry into the apparent world, and should be lauded for the good it produces. However, let us remember that many of its highest practitioners and promoters were themselves mystics, alchemists, spiritualists, Freemasons, Rosicrucians, and highly religious folk. The Scientific Method was put forth by Rene Descartes who, by all accounts was far more mystical than most new-age Sedona vortex seekers.

Let me wrap this up by saying that even IF all of this was amazingly coincidental, and proved nothing whatsoever... I still have my OWN EXPERIENCE. Which, in this case, is exceedingly vast and detailed. I do not need anything outside of my own subjective anecdotes to convince me of what I know to be true.

And, having said all of this... I am not an evangelist. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am merely giving people tips, advice and friendly warnings. After all, just because one doesn't have to be possessed by astral entities to become schizophrenic... doesn't mean that you need to risk becoming one of poor, unfortunate psychonauts that do (once in a while) come down from their journeys in straight jackets speaking in guttural tongues, or worse.

My points are simple.

1) Playing with light beings is more fun and more rewarding.

2) The more you hang out with angelic beings, the less likely you are to even encounter the dark ones.

3) Every shaman since the dawn of time can't be totally wrong.

Be careful my friends. Don't have fear (that is what they feed on remember). Just remember not to do stupid ass shit or go asking for trouble. Just because you might have a yellow belt in jiujitsu doesn't mean you should go picking fights with drunken marines.

Love & Light to you all. May your journeys be ever more blissful.
HF

 

[onethousandk]

While I can only speak for myself and no one else, it doesn't seem like the argument here is materialism vs something else. No one seems to be claiming that entities are all made up nonsense. The argument started when you claimed these encounters can traverse the hyperspace plane and affect the material world (ie possession). These are different. I'm not a strict materialist, but I don't believe in possession.

Read through 1000 trip reports (seriously, do it), and you will find that the dark entities invariably are the ones who kidnap and torture people... often sucking out some life force or feeding hungrily on their emotions. You will not find a single trip report on any of the major sites where a dark, malevolent entity gave anyone a purely blissful or uplifting experience.

There are numerous accounts on this very forum that contradict this. Several people in this very thread have said that engaging these dark entities helped them realize it was all just personal fear. SoulCrushingBass is one example. In the same way that you recommend others don't project their experience upon you I would ask that you do the same.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

While I can only speak for myself and no one else, it doesn't seem like the argument here is materialism vs something else. No one seems to be claiming that entities are all made up nonsense. The argument started when you claimed these encounters can traverse the hyperspace plane and affect the material world (ie possession). These are different. I'm not a strict materialist, but I don't believe in possession.

Read through 1000 trip reports (seriously, do it), and you will find that the dark entities invariably are the ones who kidnap and torture people... often sucking out some life force or feeding hungrily on their emotions. You will not find a single trip report on any of the major sites where a dark, malevolent entity gave anyone a purely blissful or uplifting experience.

There are numerous accounts on this very forum that contradict this. Several people in this very thread have said that engaging these dark entities helped them realize it was all just personal fear. SoulCrushingBass is one example. In the same way that you recommend others don't project their experience upon you I would ask that you do the same.

Untrue.

Having a horrific experience that you grow from... or that turns out good in the end, is NOT the same as having a "purely blissful experience" or being directly gifted wisdom without the torture.

As for possession, no one is trying to convince anyone. How many times does one have to say that?

Just realize that of the entheogen users from the dawn of human history til now... people who don't believe in spirit possession are the infinitesimal minority.

I wonder why so many of you think you know more about these realms than the experts. (the hoary hosts of shaman and mystics throughout the ages)

And, there are a lot of Nexians who do, in fact, think that entities are made up nonsense.

 

[PrimateSphinx]

Wow PROvocaTIVE,
what a divisive debate this has become. Though I believe that the majority of entities (and people for that matter) are neutral I do not have any shadow of a doubt that there are some not so well intentioned entities out there who would like to see some not so good things happen to us (who could say why, buy I've definitely seen them and they are not fun to say the least), and same with the opposite. As above so below. To quote the good words of Terence "People have been talking to angels and demons far longer than they haven't". I don't know about the possession thing but one definitely cannot say that these entities and the aggression and malice that these entities project onto people does not have some sort of real world repercussions. I know when I had my "hell" experience I really wasn't the same for months that aggression and hatred that was projected onto me stayed with me and really kinda screwed me up for a while and made me really paranoid, especially immediately after the experience. but that's just me

 

[tele]

None of us really know what DMT is all about so we should have difficulty equally in presenting ideas and debunking them, so therefore I am still on the point that no one should critisize other peoples ideas no matter how weird or far out they seem to one(especially you art).

 

[endlessness]

I think Art's point is very valid regarding critical thinking. Demons literally raping your soul doesnt sound like an experience I would like to have, I dont know why people are using DMT if they feel this can happen so easily. Also, just being accepting, taking as if all "dark demon" talk is true, means one is not taking in account that at least in some cases this is not true and its misinterpretation/delusion, so just talking about it as if its always true can simply be reinforcing some people's delusions, making some people more affraid and open to being hurt (by themselves, imo), and on top of it all indeed making the whole community seeming like a bunch of nutcases. Whether this is always the case or not, is another discussion, one which we are having and should continue respectfully

BTW hyperspace fool, you keep talking about how "shamans/old cultures cant be wrong", which is an artificial division of two groups: people who dont believe in demonic possessions (which isnt the same as believing they absolutely dont exist, btw), VS shamans (as if they have one and the same opinion). This is simply not true, you say you have been with shamans and constantly make reference to your extensive experience in life, so I dont know how comes you've never come across incredible contradictions between different shaman's world view. I've met shamans from different ethnic groups that you might as well say they had exact OPPOSITE opinions about "hyperspace/alternate dimensions". I've said it before but, what one shaman considers "bad/evil/dark', another one will consider it light (take the spirits of datura, for example... ) .

By the way the whole idea of "spirits" is completely different than our typical idea and image of what spirits are. We ascribe the word spirits to the meaning that it is a free-standing 'permanent' entity, and this is not what several shamans talk about. Take the Huni Kuin tribe for example, for them, Yuxin, the equivalent of spirit, isnt some being or entity as we would imagine, but simply a pattern or totality that affects them in any given moment. So for example, they would talk about the yuxin (spirit) of a smile, or the spirit of a laughter, or of anything, really. This doesnt mean they see some entity that is a big mouth smiling in hyperspace, its a more symbolic reference. I also gave examples about how buddhists consider demons to be part of ourselves (for example tibetan book of the dead), as well as other worldviews where "beings of darkness" are actually helpers. And this shouldnt be about what does the majority of cultures think, one way or another, this is a falacious argument (appeal to authority, appeal to tradition, appeal to majority etc). Im sure the majority of cultures would not aprove of most of your poly drug use, and this doesnt mean its bad.

Also just because people perceive dark usually as bad/evil and light as good doesnt mean thats what they are. IMO this talks much more of our psychological mechanisms and projections (possibly related with our childhood fear of dark, or our evolutionary natural fear of not-seeing things which has been, over thousands of years, a potential threat to our safety, etc etc many other possibilities). Again, one could also pull up examples of dark being good and white being bad, for some person in some context. While again, i dont say absolutely what existence is because who knows, at least one thing has been pretty clear to me, that its not so black-and-white, that there is a myriad of contextual factors that affect how one's experience will be integrated, and that this light-vs-dark is way too reductive to account for the complexities of existence.

 

[polytrip]

Can we not just say:'OK, some people believe in demons and some don´t' and leave it there instead of just keeping hammering that these things realy do exist, or not.

I don´t believe in devils or demons. These arguments don´t convince me at all. Just respect that please, instead of repeating over and over that non-believers are arogant materialists or something.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

I think Art's point is very valid regarding critical thinking. Demons literally raping your soul doesnt sound like an experience I would like to have, I dont know why people are using DMT if they feel this can happen so easily. Also, just being accepting, taking as if all "dark demon" talk is true, means one is not taking in account that at least in some cases this is not true and its misinterpretation/delusion, so just talking about it as if its always true can simply be reinforcing some people's delusions, making some people more affraid and open to being hurt (by themselves, imo), and on top of it all indeed making the whole community seeming like a bunch of nutcases. Whether this is always the case or not, is another discussion, one which we are having and should continue respectfully

BTW hyperspace fool, you keep talking about how "shamans/old cultures cant be wrong", which is an artificial division of two groups: people who dont believe in demonic possessions (which isnt the same as believing they absolutely dont exist, btw), VS shamans (as if they have one and the same opinion). This is simply not true, you say you have been with shamans and constantly make reference to your extensive experience in life, so I dont know how comes you've never come across incredible contradictions between different shaman's world view. I've met shamans from different ethnic groups that you might as well say they had exact OPPOSITE opinions about "hyperspace/alternate dimensions". I've said it before but, what one shaman considers "bad/evil/dark', another one will consider it light (take the spirits of datura, for example... ) .

By the way the whole idea of "spirits" is completely different than our typical idea and image of what spirits are. We ascribe the word spirits to the meaning that it is a free-standing 'permanent' entity, and this is not what several shamans talk about. Take the Huni Kuin tribe for example, for them, Yuxin, the equivalent of spirit, isnt some being or entity as we would imagine, but simply a pattern or totality that affects them in any given moment. So for example, they would talk about the yuxin (spirit) of a smile, or the spirit of a laughter, or of anything, really. This doesnt mean they see some entity that is a big mouth smiling in hyperspace, its a more symbolic reference. I also gave examples about how buddhists consider demons to be part of ourselves (for example tibetan book of the dead), as well as other worldviews where "beings of darkness" are actually helpers. And this shouldnt be about what does the majority of cultures think, one way or another, this is a falacious argument (appeal to authority, appeal to tradition, appeal to majority etc). Im sure the majority of cultures would not aprove of most of your poly drug use, and this doesnt mean its bad.

Also just because people perceive dark usually as bad/evil and light as good doesnt mean thats what they are. IMO this talks much more of our psychological mechanisms and projections (possibly related with our childhood fear of dark, or our evolutionary natural fear of not-seeing things which has been, over thousands of years, a potential threat to our safety, etc etc many other possibilities). Again, one could also pull up examples of dark being good and white being bad, for some person in some context. While again, i dont say absolutely what existence is because who knows, at least one thing has been pretty clear to me, that its not so black-and-white, that there is a myriad of contextual factors that affect how one's experience will be integrated, and that this light-vs-dark is way too reductive to account for the complexities of existence.

Critical thinking that dismisses mountains of 1st hand and 2nd hand accounts as being jibberish simply by virtue of not conforming to your current belief system strikes me as less than critical.

I don't know why everyone keeps foisting the idea that I am making an argument to convince anyone. What I stated about trip reports and historical documents is simply a matter of record. The fact that exorcists and witch doctors have existed around the globe for all of human history is not open to debate. My experiences are my subjective analysis of things I have observed. Here again, I don't see what there is to debate.

While you may be able to point to certain minorities of human culture that didn't believe in possession or even spirits, most of what you have said amounts to grasping at semantics. I have never said that such demonic or dark entities are NOT aspects of your mind. Who can know this? It is possible that all of reality is a dream and thus everything and everyone are aspects of mind. This changes nothing. Demonic aspects of your mind are still demonic.

I am quite familiar with Tibetan beliefs and you do them a disservice by claiming that they do not believe in spirits or demonic possession. They only have some of the most extensive exorcism rites in the entire known world. What would be the point in that if they believed (as you claim) that these beings are unable to do you harm?

As for the dark and light dichotomy, it is not saying that you don't have black light beings and light colored dark beings (this is often the case)... it is the energy that fills them and pours out from them that is dark or light, not something superficial like their clothes or skin colors. Many angelic beings have features that are African.

Often what I term "dark" energy is more sickly or repulsive than simply black (though it is often inky or smoky black as well). I have seen putrescent looking pus and puke green energies that are somewhat vibrant... but I still term them dark.

Terminology aside, the question is loving, life-affirming, glorious or malefic, destructive, anti-life. If you choose to hang out with beings that radiate malice and subject you to horrific experiences... who am I to question your masochism?

Demons literally raping your soul doesnt sound like an experience I would like to have, I dont know why people are using DMT if they feel this can happen so easily.

Demons never rape my soul, and my experiences are extremely blissful. I give this advice to people so they don't have to endure such experiences... even a quick perusal of the active topics at this very moment should prove that plenty of people do indeed have these soul-raping experiences.

They come here seeking guidance and help with these very troubling and scarring experiences, and what do you materialists propose to offer them by way of help? "Its all in your mind, these experiences mean nothing, and you are probably crazy." Really helpful.

I, on the other hand, know that these experiences are possible and tell people how they can actually avoid them.

The materialist answer to people who have experienced torture at the hands of alien intelligences (including a large number of the only people to have clinical DMT tests done on them) is what? Suck it up? Go to a psychologist?

If I didn't know how to avoid such horrific experiences 100% of the time, I seriously doubt I would want to continue exploring those realms. (note: such experiences are not restricted to entheogen use, but often happen in dreams, as well as waking life) I am also, btw, completely free of nightmares and am able to teach others not to have them as well.

With all the talk here about harm reduction, you would think that people would want to protect amateur psychonauts from any potential dangers... even if they are somewhat difficult to agree upon. If a majority of trip reports that involved people experiencing uncomfortable physical side effects could be traced to certain substance combinations or set & setting agglomerations, I think the Nexus would be quick to point out the potential for problems. Considering that the vast majority of negative reactions to psychedelic drugs (which tend to be rather safe physically when done correctly) are psychological in nature... the attitude expressed among the non-spiritual members here can be construed as somewhat cavalier.

Personally, I could care less what anyone believes or chooses to accept. My position here is not a logical fallacy or an appeal to anything. And, I am certainly not asking people to believe in boogey men.

What I am saying, is that annecdotal reports from psychonauts, tribespeople, shaman, religious people, spiritualists, occultists, mystics and freaks of a wide sort from all around the globe... and throughout human history... should not be disregarded.

If there are simple tips that help people to avoid having the experience of being soul raped, force fed insects till they can't breathe, or beaten mercilessly for epic lengths of time between heartbeats (just a few examples taken from the current threads)... then why shouldn't we give people the benefit of our experience?

Is this really such a threatening idea?

 

[SoulCrushingBass]

All this about "evil" and darkness got me talking with a friend who deals with energies. He does believe in evil, as where I don't see.it as self existing. But he had a good point from his beliefs. Evil, or darkness, cannot control free will, you can only be as vulnerable as you let yourself be. They can distort perception and manipulate senses he says. Makes me remember McKenna; don't give way to astonishment.

But I have to quote myself and say I disagree. In keeping an open mind I change my mind a lot until I find what makes the mist sense, which is still open to change. I would say that evil is not really evil in the traditional sense we all think of. If you poke a hold in a piece of paper, that hole isn't there, its an absence of paper. Evil is just the absence of light, which is not to be feared I believe for now, because we came from light. We bring light to the dark. So if we don't venture into the dark, the dark will never become illuminated, and remain dark. I remember a proverb, "You can be the light, or the mirror that reflects it."

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

good?
evil?

A perception, a choice, a consequence, an opinion?

where do they come from?
is one older than the other?

If an ant colony swarms out, attacking and killing another ant colony and taking its property and resources, is this evil?

If i do the same thing to my neighbor, is that evil?

But what is my neighbor is planning on killing children?

But what if those children were all going to be serial killing baby rapists?

Good?
Evil?

Malice, what is that?
The intent to harm?
is it evil for me but not for a wolf?

Context means so much that without one, good and evil are meaningless.

Evil may exist as an intention, so may good, but the real intention that counts is of self
there is no devil outside your head, but that doesn't mean you are safe from it or that it isn't real

Evil is a hat God likes to wear when bored.

 

[damon]

I try not to put too much "belief" in anything I see on DMT. It is a psychedelic, it causes hallucinations and puts you in a psychotic mindset, delusional, and it makes you believe. It can make you believe you are experiencing the most profound of the profound, which some people will believe without question. Of course I learn some things in hyperspace, it is one of my primary purposes, but some beliefs can only be based on faith. You can never take anything at face value in hyperspace, whether you think it is all in your head or not. The most disturbing visions can quickly turn heavenly. I believe that while I'm in hyperspace, I am insane.

 

[endlessness]

I have never said that such demonic or dark entities are NOT aspects of your mind. Who can know this? It is possible that all of reality is a dream and thus everything and everyone are aspects of mind. This changes nothing.

To me it changes everything, because it empowers you to search within yourself for the solution instead of believing that no matter what you do, certain consistent demons will be out there to hurt you unless you follow whatever arbitrary advice someone has to give you. It opens up to contextual factors and looking at the whole entity/hyperspace phenomenon from a more complex view.

I am quite familiar with Tibetan beliefs and you do them a disservice by claiming that they do not believe in spirits or demonic possession. They only have some of the most extensive exorcism rites in the entire known world. What would be the point in that if they believed (as you claim) that these beings are unable to do you harm?

Do you disagree that buddhist thought says that these demons are part of yourself and that through inner work/self-observation/self-realization is when you come to terms with it and can "pass on" ?

As for the dark and light dichotomy, it is not saying that you don't have black light beings and light colored dark beings (this is often the case)... it is the energy that fills them and pours out from them that is dark or light, not something superficial like their clothes or skin colors. Many angelic beings have features that are African.

Often what I term "dark" energy is more sickly or repulsive than simply black (though it is often inky or smoky black as well). I have seen putrescent looking pus and puke green energies that are somewhat vibrant... but I still term them dark.

How arbitrary. If its your personal model that fits for you, fine, but dont talk as if its an objective model that is the same for all

Terminology aside, the question is loving, life-affirming, glorious or malefic, destructive, anti-life. If you choose to hang out with beings that radiate malice and subject you to horrific experiences... who am I to question your masochism?

Again you are making this pure arbitrary black and white division and I dont see it as such. Feel free to use your own model for yourself, I dont subscribe to it and that doesnt make me a masochist.

They come here seeking guidance and help with these very troubling and scarring experiences, and what do you materialists propose to offer them by way of help? "Its all in your mind, these experiences mean nothing, and you are probably crazy." Really helpful.

That is the kind of wordings that I dont find constructive and neither realistic. Just read some of our posts throughout all the years in this forum, and see if this is the way we offer people help. Read the health and safety section and tell me if thats the kind of attitude we have. Just because we dont subscribe to your idea doesnt mean we are all die hard materialists that call all people who have certain experiences as crazy, please think a bit about what and how you are saying. Also please stop equating people in groups, each one is unique.

With all the talk here about harm reduction, you would think that people would want to protect amateur psychonauts from any potential dangers... even if they are somewhat difficult to agree upon. If a majority of trip reports that involved people experiencing uncomfortable physical side effects could be traced to certain substance combinations or set & setting agglomerations, I think the Nexus would be quick to point out the potential for problems. Considering that the vast majority of negative reactions to psychedelic drugs (which tend to be rather safe physically when done correctly) are psychological in nature... the attitude expressed among the non-spiritual members here can be construed as somewhat cavalier.

I disagree. Just read my post further back, for example talking about how one can get "power objects" or things they feel comfortable with which can help people being protected, plus all the talk in health and safety section and all of that. Not dividing entities in "light and dark" or believing in this dichotomy of good and evil, and not believing in the objective reality of demons doesnt mean you cant have a holistic view and offer appropriate open help to others. Using a more psychological, agnostic, open psychedelic perspective to respond to others has also worked well for hundreds of people who have come here asking for help throughout the years.

What I am saying, is that annecdotal reports from psychonauts, tribespeople, shaman, religious people, spiritualists, occultists, mystics and freaks of a wide sort from all around the globe... and throughout human history... should not be disregarded.

Nobody here is saying the experiences should be disregarded (at least Im certainly not), its rather about the interpretation and integration of those experiences, and another alternative way of looking at it which is being proposed. If you dont agree with it, thats perfectly fine, but the words you use, at least in my view, seem to have an implicit message that whoever doesnt agree with you is closed minded materialist and is doing harm to "noobs". It's the collective varied response from nexians that is so benefiting. The fact that you give your response and others give theirs is whats so good, then they have a more extensive overview and can decide for their own how they interpret their own experience

 

[tele]

I don´t believe in devils or demons. These arguments don´t convince me at all. Just respect that please, instead of repeating over and over that non-believers are arogant materialists or something.

Yeah or the other way around that those who believe in them are something "off", example:

In one fell swoop you've destroyed any shred of credibility you may otherwise have enjoyed. You may be able to find validation from other like minded characters, but to the world around you, you're weirdo nutcases, and honestly, with good reason. Schizophrenia is demon possession??? I mean come on now... how to respond???? This point of view is marginalizing, and yes, it's extremely embarrassing. It reflects very poorly on our community, and this is why I get snarky.

What kind of community doesn't allow people to share their views freely?

Personally I don't care about demons or evil entities, I just care that we can express our views freely without anyone coming to diss you about it!

 

[polytrip]

I don´t believe in devils or demons. These arguments don´t convince me at all. Just respect that please, instead of repeating over and over that non-believers are arogant materialists or something.

Yeah or the other way around that those who believe in them are something "off", example:

In one fell swoop you've destroyed any shred of credibility you may otherwise have enjoyed. You may be able to find validation from other like minded characters, but to the world around you, you're weirdo nutcases, and honestly, with good reason. Schizophrenia is demon possession??? I mean come on now... how to respond???? This point of view is marginalizing, and yes, it's extremely embarrassing. It reflects very poorly on our community, and this is why I get snarky.

What kind of community doesn't allow people to share their views freely?

Personally I don't care about demons or evil entities, I just care that we can express our views freely without anyone coming to diss you about it!

I think it´s not the fact that some people have these opinions wich triggered art and others to say such things. I think it´s the zeal with wich they´re being ventilated.

 

[Bill Cipher]

Tele - I don't really see how I've censored anyone. If you publicly express an idea or opinion on a community web forum, you open yourself up to responses. If those ideas or opinions run contrary to a) the most basic tenets of the community (i.e. critical thinking and mature exploration of the interior landscape), b) logic, common sense and intelligent discourse in general, or c) all of the above, the responses that follow can reasonably be expected to become somewhat more confrontational.

I understand that you find me rude. For this, I suggest you try some deep breathing, have a good cry or go out for a walk. Regardless, you should understand that I'm probably not going anywhere. If you're uncomfortable with the status quo, there are other less constricting web forums on which you can express your more fanciful notions. Or do so here. You're entitled. Just don't be surprised when you see me reply.

 

[tele]

I just don't understand why do you have to reply so negatively to a person who was simply stating his views, even if they seem extreme to you. I just think one should use common respect to fellow nexians:

In one fell swoop you've destroyed any shred of credibility you may otherwise have enjoyed. You may be able to find validation from other like minded characters, but to the world around you, you're weirdo nutcases, and honestly, with good reason. Schizophrenia is demon possession??? I mean come on now... how to respond???? This point of view is marginalizing, and yes, it's extremely embarrassing. It reflects very poorly on our community, and this is why I get snarky.

Do whatever you like but consider that would you actually speak to a person like this if you were standing in front of him, not just behind a nickname?

Everybody has different temperaments...

 

[Bill Cipher]

Do whatever you like but consider that would you actually speak to a person like this if you were standing in front of him, not just behind a nickname?

I would, yes. If you find me rude, you'd be twice as offended meeting me face to face.

 

[tele]

Do whatever you like but consider that would you actually speak to a person like this if you were standing in front of him, not just behind a nickname?

I would, yes. If you find me rude, you'd be twice as offended meeting me face to face.

I imagine that to be true:lol:

Peace8)

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

If you publicly express an idea or opinion on a community web forum, you open yourself up to responses. If those ideas or opinions run contrary to a) the most basic tenets of the community (i.e. critical thinking and mature exploration of the interior landscape), b) logic, common sense and intelligent discourse in general, or c) all of the above, the responses that follow can reasonably be expected to become somewhat more confrontational.

No need for confrontation. And if you can't express your belief that such expressions are not mature logical, common sense and intelligent... in a mature, logical, or common sense way (insults and assumptions don't qualify)...

I guess you might want to take your own advice to heart.

I mean that in a constructive way brother.

Logic is not only what you think it is, but rather a very detailed set of paradigms by which to analyze experiences. Not just the ones you find common sense, mind you, but all experiences. Remember that logic was invented millenia before the scientific method. Materialists didn't invent logic... on the contrary, materialism is in direct opposition to the philosophy of rationalism. (not making this up)

I suggest we cool our jets and get back on topic here.

No viewpoint (however common sense it may seem to you) is held to a higher standard than any other. People like tele & myself have contribute as much to this wonderful place as anyone else.

Truth be told, many of my most recent contributions to the field of knowledge here are completely empirical, science-based advances. (Proof that TSP works as a base, proof that liquid parrafin (mineral lamp oil) works as an NPS, and a fool proof method to eliminate burn while insufflating DMT... just to scratch the surface.)

I say this not to toot my own horn, but rather to challenge your unfounded belief that you and other naysayers like yourself are the "voice of reason" here, or do all the heavy lifting science-wise around here. This is not borne out by the actual public record.

If you don't like talk of spirit possession or entities being real... no one forces you to read such posts... let alone reply to them.

Peace.