guayusa and ayahuasca

[bomshiva]

"Natema Recipe of the Shuar
The Shuar shamans (uwishin) split a 1- to 2- meter-long piece of Banisteriopsis caapi stem into small strips. They place the strips in a pot along with several liters of water. They then add leaves of Diplopterys cabrerana, a Herrania species, Ilex guayusa, Heliconia stricta, and an unidentified Malphighiacea known as mukuyasku. The resulting mixture is boiled until most of the water has evaporated and a syrupy fluid remains (Bennett 1992, 486). The Kamsá, Inga, and Secoya make similar preparations (Bristol 1965, 207 ff.)."

I think I've read that it is typical for ecuadorian shamans to drink guayusa for up to a week in preparation for ayahuasca and that here it is even cited as being in an ayahuasca recipe. Is there no negative interaction between maoi and caffeine? I thought caffeine was a no-no for la dieta. Guayusa is a delicious tea and a beautiful ancient healing medicine for those of you haven't tried it.

I would like to here more about la dieta from the more experienced ayahuasceros on this board

 

[ShamanicHerbalist]

Looks intresting this stuff, im going to order some now,hopefully they will combine shipping as i ordered some shredded black caapi, whole red caapi,chaliponga and some white sage earlyer on today. Im gonna drink this stuff evryday if i can offord and also experiment adding it to the brews ill be making later this week Id also like to see what more experienced people have to say about this herb, any other alkaloids other that caffiene? Im going to do some research on this.

 

[bomshiva]

what is your personal preference for la dieta de ayahuasca? What kind of foods do you prefer to eat before the experience and for how long do you do this? Will all caapi teas cause a purge? What is the best/most convenient food grade extraction for harmalas from syrian rue? do you prepare for the experience in any other sort of ways?

 

[Ryusaki]

Wait, one can drink/eat white sage? Thats new for me. I always use the white sage as incense. Please elaborate on the dosis and how to prepare it (just drop it in with the caapi?).
When drinking Guayusa as a tea (alone) how much do i have to use?

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

Is there no negative interaction between maoi and caffeine?

none that i have heard of, and i have drunk caffeinated teas before while MAOI'd
also if it is done traditionally, there should be no reason to worry.

what is your personal preference for la dieta de ayahuasca? What kind of foods do you prefer to eat before the experience

AFAIK la dieta is optional, so whatever you feel is best would work. i personally like to just munch on raw veggies and fruits, but honestly it shouldn't matter much.

and for how long do you do this?

i start as soon as i wake up the day/night i plan on imbibing. but you can start as early or as late as you feel would be good.

Will all caapi teas cause a purge?

most likely. the purge is a part of the ayahuasca experience.

What is the best/most convenient food grade extraction for harmalas from syrian rue? do you prepare for the experience in any other sort of ways?

i know of no food-safe extractions except maybe just doing a water-extract of some sort.
maybe with slight acidification.

perhaps some of the more chemically inclined would be able to help you work out a gibran's/tao of rue tek using calcium hydroxide as a base... but i would think if it were a simple solution it would have been attempted by now (though admittedly this is not always the case)

Wait, one can drink/eat white sage?

it is used for cooking, not as commonly as garden sage, but it is not unheard of.
i am not aware of any activity, just toss a couple leaves in there for good vibes.

 

[sidefx]

Yeah i have found that maois do not have many deadly interactions, mainly with medications and additives.

And i think the Aya diet is different with every medicine man, some eat nothing, some eat chicken, some only raw stuff, some will not touch fruits with lots of acid.

I have recently fasted for 24hrs before smoking DMT 3 times now, and i REALLY notice the effects; it takes over faster and seems more electric or pure, feels like the DMT reaches deeper into my source.

 

[obliguhl]

I tried Yerba matè (Ilex paraguariensis) with ayahuasca and it was horrible. I got strange heat flushes and felt miserable. But it also was my first caapi experience so this might have had played into the experience as well. I'd be careful. Even traditional admixtures do not have to agree with everyone.

 

[rOm]

Ilex Guyasa is very nice admixture to ayahuasca, helps conteract the sedation of harmalas in my experience.
It goes very well with chaliponga tea.

 

[dragonaut000]

I was very worried about diet complications before I learned that the harmaloids are reversible mao inhibitors. I think you can still run the risk of a headache but in my unprofessional opinion a strict tyramine free diet is not required when ingesting harmaloids.

 

[bomshiva]

I was experimenting with mild doses of syrian rue a couple of years ago and I accidentally ate a piece of pizza at a community dinner and I got a gnarly headache, so it's hard for me to believe they are "completely" reversible/no interactions

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

I was experimenting with mild doses of syrian rue a couple of years ago and I accidentally ate a piece of pizza at a community dinner and I got a gnarly headache, so it's hard for me to believe they are "completely" reversible/no interactions

IIRC harmalas only inhibit your MAO-B enzymes,
it is your MAO-A that break down stuff like tyramine, and are the ones you have to worry about diet interactions.

what you experienced could have been psychosomatic or unrelated...
or maybe somehow the rue inhibited your MAO-A though i am not sure of the plausibility of that.

 

[bomshiva]

if you are so sure of your theory, then try eating 5g of syiran rue + 1lb of aged cave cheese and tell us how that goes :twisted: :shock: 8) :thumb_up: cheesehuasca

disclaimer: don't do this

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

if you are so sure of your theory, then try eating 5g of syiran rue + 1lb of aged cave cheese and tell us how that goes :twisted: :shock: 8) :thumb_up: cheesehuasca

beta-Carboline alkaloids in Peganum harmala and inhibition of human monoamine oxidase (MAO) - PubMed

Peganum harmala L. is a multipurpose medicinal plant increasingly used for psychoactive recreational purposes (Ayahuasca analog). Harmaline, harmine, harmalol, harmol and tetrahydroharmine were identified and quantified as the main beta-carboline alkaloids in P. harmala extracts. Seeds and roots...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

i couldn't eat a pound of cheese sober, but there would be little to no danger.

also it appears i confused MAO-A and MAO-B.
B is the one you need for stuff like tyramine, A is the one harmalas break down.

 

[evil804]

never had any issues with diet and ayahuasca except for salt/msg. If i have salty foods like bacon, sausage, chinese food, etc... the brew is pretty much inactive, though i still get nausea. some people have no issues with salt, others do. i remember a previous thread about salty foods and it seems about 50/50 on whether it has any effects on the brew.

 

[ShamanicHerbalist]

Wait, one can drink/eat white sage? Thats new for me. I always use the white sage as incense. Please elaborate on the dosis and how to prepare it (just drop it in with the caapi?).
When drinking Guayusa as a tea (alone) how much do i have to use?

Yeah drink it good stuff also smoke/vapourize some, my aya/chali brew didnt taste bad at all with the white sage. And i havent got scales atm i just divide what ive got up when i get it, really need to get some though. white sage purifies I dunno how it would effect aya/chali or harmala/dmt though my chaliponga didnt seem to be active. I had relaxed effects that probably came from the aya. Im going to experiment more but white sage is important in my rituals now always gonna burn as insence/drink/smoke, it gonna try changa with it too when i start extracting stuff in the near future And cant wait to try this guayusa stuff gonna drink everymorning