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harmala alkaloids and UV light

Migrated topic.
E

entheogenic-gnosis

Rising Star
(If a thread on this topic already exists I apologize)

The link is to an article focused on harmala alkaloids and UV light. There's some really interesting and useful information contained in it.


Alexander Shulgin writes:

Extraction techniques with harmala can be evaluated for effectiveness using UV light. Both of Peganum harmala's major carbolines, harmaline and harmine, are rather intensely fluorescent compounds.

Erowid Syrian Rue Vaults: UV Glow of Harmala Extracts

Information about Harmala glow under black light
www.erowid.org

-EG
 
Its true and its a good test for an amateur chemist to do = Look at your kitchen with UV light before you extract a large amount of P.Harmala and again afterwards ........ = You are very probably going to get a shock because it gets everywhere . The walls . The floor . The surfaces . In my case the ceeling to .
 
GOD said:
it gets everywhere . The walls . The floor . The surfaces . In my case the ceeling to .
Click to expand...
Your hands, your face, everywhere you occasionally get an itch. Especially the nails seem to soak it up, still glows in uv light after weeks.

entheogenic-gnosis said:
powdered banisteriopsis caapi should react with UV light, correct?

Is this a reliable test to determine if your vines do in fact contain the desired harmala alkaloids?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is a good test for the presence of harmala alkaloids. Not a very good quantitative test, as the harmalas cause strong fluorescence at even minute amounts present. But if there is no glow then there surely aren't any harmalas in the brew (need to test solution, not bare plant).
 
That's what I was asking about was testing the bare plant, that way if it did not contain the desired alkaloids I would not have to go through the trouble of putting it into solution.

"One interesting thing about syrian rue seeds is that the powder from the seeds glows dimly under blacklight and extracts made from it glow brightly under common UV."
-This is the first line on the link in my original post ( Erowid Syrian Rue Vaults: UV Glow of Harmala Extracts )

Because it worked with powdered peganum harmala I assumed that it would work with powdered caapi as well.




-EG
 
I dabbled with rue snuff a few months back. We visited a club pre-Christmas, and I looked like Scarface the White-Nosed Reindeer :oops: :oops: :oops:

My nostril hairs are still blinding white under UV.

Even better is berberine, from barberries etc, a really nice turquoise color under UV, if you're body-painting...!
 
.....Dave G writes: (January 1996; erowid link)-We dipped stuff into it and painted our bodies and the walls and it worked wonderfully. I think I remember hearing that P. harmala seeds are used in dyes, so I'm wondering if a psychoactive black-light tie-dye is in the works...

Has anybody ever tried to make black light reactive dye from p. Harmala and had it work?

Sounds like you can make black light reactive body paint with it...

-EG
 
Man From Chan Chan said:
I dabbled with rue snuff a few months back. We visited a club pre-Christmas, and I looked like Scarface the White-Nosed Reindeer :oops: :oops: :oops:

My nostril hairs are still blinding white under UV.

Even better is berberine, from barberries etc, a really nice turquoise color under UV, if you're body-painting...!
Click to expand...

That's classic! Your post reminded me of this recent one also, very cool idea i have yet to try.......

body painting with rue
 
The body paint idea has been around for a long time and it works ...... BUT ...... its harmala alkaloids that are glowing and they get taken up though the skin . Do we want that ? Do we want to have to be VERY carefull with our diaet to be sure that there are no posibly dangerous effects . Exactly the same as with ayahuasca .

LSD glows ( emits light ) in the dark when it shaken ......... would it be a good idea to spread an X amount of it on our skin ?
 
GOD said:
its harmala alkaloids that are glowing and they get taken up though the skin . Do we want that ? Do we want to have to be VERY carefull with our diaet to be sure that there are no posibly dangerous effects . Exactly the same as with ayahuasca .
Click to expand...
Not the same. The amount of harmalas needed to achieve vivid fluorescence is very small, milligrams per liter. Unless several grams of harmala are applied to the body, the amount effectively taken up into the blood stream is only good for placebo experiences. Even if an active amount of harmalas are taken up, the digestive system is bypassed, so that regular amine detoxification by the gut is mostly unaffected.

GOD said:
LSD glows ( emits light ) in the dark when it shaken ......... would it be a good idea to spread an X amount of it on our skin ?
Click to expand...
The triboluminescence of lsd crystals is not the same as the fluorescence of lsd in solution. LSD is active in microgram quantities, harmalas in milligram quantities. Comparing the same amount of both applied to the skin is not a sensible comparison.
 
entheogenic-gnosis said:
That's what I was asking about was testing the bare plant, that way if it did not contain the desired alkaloids I would not have to go through the trouble of putting it into solution.

"One interesting thing about syrian rue seeds is that the powder from the seeds glows dimly under blacklight and extracts made from it glow brightly under common UV."
-This is the first line on the link in my original post ( Erowid Syrian Rue Vaults: UV Glow of Harmala Extracts )

Because it worked with powdered peganum harmala I assumed that it would work with powdered caapi as well.
Click to expand...
Solid harmine/harmaline HCl glows yellow in blacklight, the same color as without the blacklight, but more intense. The effect is less striking than with solutions, but it may work to identify actives.

I would simply take a little sample of the plant and boil it for a few minutes in a small amount of water or dilute vinegar, that is enough to extract sufficient harmalas for a fluorescence test.
 
pitubo #10

Thats interesting . How much did your theoretical person put on his skin ? How often ? On how much of his skin ? How much harmala alkaloids were in it ? Does it also bypass the MAO system in the brain or does it also effect that ?

" Comparing the same amount of both applied to the skin is not a sensible comparison. "

I didnt do that . I said ---- > " would it be a good idea to spread an X amount of it on our skin ? "

An X amount = an unknown dose .


The comparison is that all things that have light effects are not nesecerily safe to smear on you skin = The light effect , the safety factor and not the effects of the drug . Cyanide kills . So does strychnine ........ but ...... they are not the same chemical . The lethal dose isnt the same . They dont look the same . They dont taste the same ...... BUT ....... victims of both are exactly as dead as eachother .
 
GOD, it's fairly common knowledge that harmel, aka syrian rue, has been liberally chucked on fires throughout the Middle East since way back when. Birth of a child? Harmel! Wedding? Harmel! You got the new iPhone? Harmel!

I bow to no one in my caution, but sometimes, some comparisons are just fatuous, and do more harm than good.

I still have glowing nostrils, and I'm alive. Harmel for everybody!
 
GOD said:
Thats interesting . How much did your theoretical person put on his skin ? How often ? On how much of his skin ? How much harmala alkaloids were in it ? Does it also bypass the MAO system in the brain or does it also effect that ?
Click to expand...
This hypothetical guinea pig / lab rat / friend called "SWIM" has some experience processing and handling sizable amounts of extracted harmalas. Additionally, he has experienced varying amounts smoked, eaten and facepainted. Only a minute amount of harmalas will make a large amount of water glow. In order to make the whole area of the body glow, he estimates that it would require an amount of harmalas less than that needed for effect when smoked. When applied to the body, most of the harmalas are not immediately taken up into body plasma, for else there would remain no body paint to be observe. These considerations make him theorize that harmala body paint is an unlikely and ineffective route of administration.

If the digestive MAO system is functional, it will have taken care of most exogenous amines. There is AFAIK very little data on what happens in terms of interactions with psychomodulatory substances when only the central nervous system's MAO system is inhibited by harmalas. Your conjectures are as good as mine.

GOD said:
" Comparing the same amount of both applied to the skin is not a sensible comparison. "

I didnt do that . I said ---- > " would it be a good idea to spread an X amount of it on our skin ? "

An X amount = an unknown dose .
Click to expand...
Oh thanks for clearing that up. Would it be a good idea to ask an unknown question?

GOD said:
The comparison is that all things that have light effects are not nesecerily safe to smear on you skin = The light effect , the safety factor and not the effects of the drug . Cyanide kills . So does strychnine ........ but ...... they are not the same chemical . The lethal dose isnt the same . They dont look the same . They dont taste the same ...... BUT ....... victims of both are exactly as dead as eachother .
Click to expand...
Don't put harmalas on your skin, because cyanide and strychnine kill? What are you arguing?
 
pitubo said:
entheogenic-gnosis said:
That's what I was asking about was testing the bare plant, that way if it did not contain the desired alkaloids I would not have to go through the trouble of putting it into solution.

"One interesting thing about syrian rue seeds is that the powder from the seeds glows dimly under blacklight and extracts made from it glow brightly under common UV."
-This is the first line on the link in my original post ( Erowid Syrian Rue Vaults: UV Glow of Harmala Extracts )

Because it worked with powdered peganum harmala I assumed that it would work with powdered caapi as well.
Click to expand...
Solid harmine/harmaline HCl glows yellow in blacklight, the same color as without the blacklight, but more intense. The effect is less striking than with solutions, but it may work to identify actives.

I would simply take a little sample of the plant and boil it for a few minutes in a small amount of water or dilute vinegar, that is enough to extract sufficient harmalas for a fluorescence test.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I appreciate the response, this was the exact info I was seeking, thanks again,

-EG
 
Haven't been on a forum in ages, but I decided today to do something with the 150g caapi vine that's been sitting in my cupboard for years. I did 4 boils (followed the tannin colour fade as indicator to stop boiling) and reduced the tea down to about 350ml.

My fingers are rough and tender from shredding hard caapi vine by hand after getting it as pulverised as possible by hammer. It's best when nature makes your work for it, like when you have to coax some mescaline HCl from a spine covered column of ouch :p

My UV light suggests that I have not destroyed the "spirit" :)


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