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Harmine Crystals from Syrian Rue

Migrated topic.
swim performed this extraction as is on the first page
50g rue - ground soaked and boiled - then swim added 1/3 the solutions volume in saturated salt solution - left it over night - and there is nothing forming at the bottom of the bottle - ideas -= swim is a bit stuck and would like to succeed
 
I never understood this way of adding a third of saturated solution.. the whole thing should be salt saturated, not just a third... i would add more salt.

did SWIY make 3x boiling, filtering coarsely at the end and then letting decant once for a whole day in the fridge? If not I would do it also.. but since some salt is already added, I would add more salt (total around 32g per 100ml of water) and into the fridge again
 
okay so swim got a pile of what looks like instant coffee granules - can swim take these add them to water - filter - and add sodium carbonate to freebase - wait for them to crash out then filter ?
Then can swim add the freebase harmala alkys to a solvent to xtalize some way ? maybe acetone, d-limonene, naptha+freeze precip ??? or what - swim would like to clean them but has no alcahol of any kind and cant get any.(swim doesnt have ammonia either,)
ideas ?
 
I just finished my exact of 50 grams of rue last night and ended up with 1.5 grams, Thank you to endlessness becase i followed your teck of salting then a/b extract. I just had to try it out when i was finished so i sublingly took about .o6 of a gram about 10pm and by the time i went to bed at 12pm i felt so great i didnt want to go to sleep. When i woke up for work this morning i still feel the efects or some strong after effects. It is great!! Thanks to all who contributed to this thread and to endlessness.
 
Phlux- said:
okay so swim got a pile of what looks like instant coffee granules - can swim take these add them to water - filter - and add sodium carbonate to freebase - wait for them to crash out then filter ?
Then can swim add the freebase harmala alkys to a solvent to xtalize some way ? maybe acetone, d-limonene, naptha+freeze precip ??? or what - swim would like to clean them but has no alcahol of any kind and cant get any.(swim doesnt have ammonia either,)
ideas ?

yes SWIY can dissolve them in water (with bit of vinegar just to make sure), filter/decant, add sodium carbonate and filter. But SWIM would recommend before adding the sodium carbonate, precipitating with salt again, as mentioned before, maybe even doing it twice.

Well yeah I guess there must be a way to further clean them using some solvent.. You gotta find a solvent in which it is not very soluble in at colder temperatures but is soluble in at higher temperatures. Or a solvent that dissolves the impurities but not the harmalas, or vice versa. You can make the tests yourself or maybe someone else here will know, I dont. But to me, the beauty of the harmala extraction is it being food safe and so on.. I wouldnt add them to a solvent, but rather repeat the first steps consecutively to get a pure and safe product.

redeyesmj said:
I just finished my exact of 50 grams of rue last night and ended up with 1.5 grams, Thank you to endlessness becase i followed your teck of salting then a/b extract. I just had to try it out when i was finished so i sublingly took about .o6 of a gram about 10pm and by the time i went to bed at 12pm i felt so great i didnt want to go to sleep. When i woke up for work this morning i still feel the efects or some strong after effects. It is great!! Thanks to all who contributed to this thread and to endlessness.

hey man no problem, im just a fellow psychonaut sharing the experiences like you :)

Glad to know it turned out well for you! Did you have problems with filtering, or decant mostly?
 
hey man no problem, im just a fellow psychonaut sharing the experiences like you :)

Glad to know it turned out well for you! Did you have problems with filtering, or decant mostly?
[/quote]

I had no real problem with filtering as i decanted. Swim has alot experince with tough filtering as in a previous life as a speed freak/cook, a/b extracts of psdoephedrine are very diffucult to filter. But like i said that was a previous life and i am strictly natural now totally reformed!! thanks to my little girl :)
 
Dagger said:
Try charcoaling the rue in the oven at around 180C/356F for 30 minutes. Should make it much easier to powder and filter.
ILPT just tried toast the seeds at 120C and only benefit he noticed was ease of grinding. Looks like toasting at this temp. won't get rid of oils. However he was a bit afraid to go as high as 180C. Perhaps next time
 
This looks good. How do you know that you're getting harmine and not harmaline as well?

Also, the description of the steps confuses me for some reason. Please correct if I got any of this wrong.

1) boil syrian rue and pull as many times as you want. Reduce to a few hundred ml. Strain out the seed particles
2) Add as much rock salt to the extract until no more will dissolve.
3) put it in the fridge for a few hours. Harmine should precip out.
4) strain and collect the harmine. Let it dry.

Anything wrong with that? Thanks.
 
fnog9 said:
This looks good. How do you know that you're getting harmine and not harmaline as well?

Also, the description of the steps confuses me for some reason. Please correct if I got any of this wrong.

1) boil syrian rue and pull as many times as you want. Reduce to a few hundred ml. Strain out the seed particles
2) Add as much rock salt to the extract until no more will dissolve.
3) put it in the fridge for a few hours. Harmine should precip out.
4) strain and collect the harmine. Let it dry.

Anything wrong with that? Thanks.

harmaline will precipitate too when saturating with salt.
 
acolon_5 said:
This is not my tek but the author is unknown so I cannot give due credit to the correct person.

What you need:
Syrain Rue
Salt (rock salt or iodine free table salt)
Distilled water
Vinegar

"At this moment I am looking at my Harmine HCL crystals growing on a plate... I saw this extraction somewhere else on the net, and didn't know If anyone had tried it, but it works... The first time I tried it I didn't get the 4 mm long crystals that I was supposed to get, but the whole extraction process I went through just became a cluster ---- in my kitchen... I hadn't cleaned all my glass properly, and I didn't have what I needed at that time....

Now I have seen harmine hcl for sale online and in can cost as much as $100 a gram, and you can buy a pound of seeds for less than half that and do your own extraction.... hmmmm

Anyway, here is the process I used to get the beautiful 1-4 mm long crystals growing on my plate... I don't even know who's process this is that I am stealing, but the one I use is for chem idiots like me, no math or any thing involved...

Step one:
Take your harmala seeds and boil 'em ( you can add an acid or not. I always add a little vinegar, never measure though). When they have boiled for about 30 mins, strain the water with a tea strainer into a pyrex measuring cup/mixing bowl thing you can get from a grocery store. Boil 'em again... strain into the same container. Boil 'em again... strain into the same container.

Step two:
Dump the seeds and wash the pot you were using. Boil some water and add rock salt (important to use rock salt because there is noting add to it, regular table salt fas stuff add to it. If you have to use table salt, make sure it doesn't have Iodine in it). Keep adding rock salt to your booiling water 'till No more disolves, so now you have a super saturated salt-water solution....


[EDIT: There seems to be some problems with steps two, three and four.. instead of doing step two with some water and then mixing this salt saturated solution to the rue tea, better to straight away add salt to the rue tea, saturating it with salt. No need to add cold water as said in step four. Just saturate the liquid from the rue boilings with water, which should be around 20-30g salt per 100ml liquid, and then put it in the fridge overnight, thats it]

Step three:
Strain the hot salt water into you hamarla boilings to keep out the salt rocks, Only adding enough salt water so that you have 2 or 3 parts harmala-water and 1 part Salt-water. I try to make sure that I have 3 times as much harmala solution as I have salt water.

Step four:
Stir it all up, then add a little bit of cold water to aid in the cooling of the mixture...SOMETHING should precipitate out. That's a good thing: the crystals form when the temp of the solution drops. Put it in the freezer for an hour. After that put it in the fridge for a few hours (longer if ya like, but three of four hours is what I did).

Step five:
There should be a whole bunch of crystals and grunge at the bottom of your container It doesn't matter how big the crystals are just yet.... I could hardly notice that they were actually crystals, the just happened to be about 1 mm little needles. Now it should be strained again...I used a bandanna to strain, but a t-shirt will work... Put your filter cloth over the top of a big stock pot and slowly pour you crungy/crystal solution through it... Now you can dump the shit in the pot outand lay your t-shirt over the pot under a fan to dry out...

[EDIT: Do step 6 at your own risk. dissolving harmalas in different types of alcohol and acetone seem to create a different reddish and gooey product that is sometimes called Harmala Red, and it is possibly inactive, though there is little info on what it is exactly and if its really inactive, its toxicological safety, etc)

Step six:
It should look like you have extracted sparkling dirt from the seeds... Scrape all your sparkling dirt off your t-shirt and into a clear glass container and add just enough methyl alcohol (ethyl should work too though, and you will know when there's enough you'll have yellowish/reddish/orangish alchy with brown shit in the bottom). The sparkles dissolve and the crunge doesn't... strain again through a t-shirt and into your a flat Pyrex baking dish or onto a clear plate. Place under a fan or somewhere with adequate ventilation and wait and watch.... "


is this rescepi above ok to get rue crystals or is it out dated ..to get HCI crystals dont i have to involve hydracloric acid???

any opinion welcom!
 
your necromantic powers are amazing starway

no you don't need hcl
that tek is not particularly outdated
but look on the wiki at "the tao of rue" for one with pictures! :thumb_up:
 
So one decade ago a manske was exotic news ;)
It amazes me how young our practices actually are.
 
starway6 said:
acolon_5 said:
This is not my tek but the author is unknown so I cannot give due credit to the correct person.

What you need:
Syrain Rue
Salt (rock salt or iodine free table salt)
Distilled water
Vinegar

"At this moment I am looking at my Harmine HCL crystals growing on a plate... I saw this extraction somewhere else on the net, and didn't know If anyone had tried it, but it works... The first time I tried it I didn't get the 4 mm long crystals that I was supposed to get, but the whole extraction process I went through just became a cluster ---- in my kitchen... I hadn't cleaned all my glass properly, and I didn't have what I needed at that time....

Now I have seen harmine hcl for sale online and in can cost as much as $100 a gram, and you can buy a pound of seeds for less than half that and do your own extraction.... hmmmm

Anyway, here is the process I used to get the beautiful 1-4 mm long crystals growing on my plate... I don't even know who's process this is that I am stealing, but the one I use is for chem idiots like me, no math or any thing involved...

Step one:
Take your harmala seeds and boil 'em ( you can add an acid or not. I always add a little vinegar, never measure though). When they have boiled for about 30 mins, strain the water with a tea strainer into a pyrex measuring cup/mixing bowl thing you can get from a grocery store. Boil 'em again... strain into the same container. Boil 'em again... strain into the same container.

Step two:
Dump the seeds and wash the pot you were using. Boil some water and add rock salt (important to use rock salt because there is noting add to it, regular table salt fas stuff add to it. If you have to use table salt, make sure it doesn't have Iodine in it). Keep adding rock salt to your booiling water 'till No more disolves, so now you have a super saturated salt-water solution....


[EDIT: There seems to be some problems with steps two, three and four.. instead of doing step two with some water and then mixing this salt saturated solution to the rue tea, better to straight away add salt to the rue tea, saturating it with salt. No need to add cold water as said in step four. Just saturate the liquid from the rue boilings with water, which should be around 20-30g salt per 100ml liquid, and then put it in the fridge overnight, thats it]

Step three:
Strain the hot salt water into you hamarla boilings to keep out the salt rocks, Only adding enough salt water so that you have 2 or 3 parts harmala-water and 1 part Salt-water. I try to make sure that I have 3 times as much harmala solution as I have salt water.

Step four:
Stir it all up, then add a little bit of cold water to aid in the cooling of the mixture...SOMETHING should precipitate out. That's a good thing: the crystals form when the temp of the solution drops. Put it in the freezer for an hour. After that put it in the fridge for a few hours (longer if ya like, but three of four hours is what I did).

Step five:
There should be a whole bunch of crystals and grunge at the bottom of your container It doesn't matter how big the crystals are just yet.... I could hardly notice that they were actually crystals, the just happened to be about 1 mm little needles. Now it should be strained again...I used a bandanna to strain, but a t-shirt will work... Put your filter cloth over the top of a big stock pot and slowly pour you crungy/crystal solution through it... Now you can dump the shit in the pot outand lay your t-shirt over the pot under a fan to dry out...

[EDIT: Do step 6 at your own risk. dissolving harmalas in different types of alcohol and acetone seem to create a different reddish and gooey product that is sometimes called Harmala Red, and it is possibly inactive, though there is little info on what it is exactly and if its really inactive, its toxicological safety, etc)

Step six:
It should look like you have extracted sparkling dirt from the seeds... Scrape all your sparkling dirt off your t-shirt and into a clear glass container and add just enough methyl alcohol (ethyl should work too though, and you will know when there's enough you'll have yellowish/reddish/orangish alchy with brown shit in the bottom). The sparkles dissolve and the crunge doesn't... strain again through a t-shirt and into your a flat Pyrex baking dish or onto a clear plate. Place under a fan or somewhere with adequate ventilation and wait and watch.... "


is this rescepi above ok to get rue crystals or is it out dated ..to get HCI crystals dont i have to involve hydracloric acid???

any opinion welcom!

You will get HCL crystals with the salt/manske precip. If im not mistaken the way it works is that the acetic acid reacts with the sodium chloride to form a small amount of hydrochloric acid in solution, which then bonds with your harmalas to form harmine/harmaline HCL while simeltaneously taking advantage of the low solubility of the HCL salts of harmalas in salt saturated solution.
 
I think it works in any acid and no HCl is formed and no hydrochloric acid bonds to harmalas. In an acidic environment, the harmalas will accept an H+. Once they do that, they are in salt form and share a common ion with Na+, the common ion being Cl-. Turns out that the harmalaH+ and Cl- ion equilibrium constant pushes harmalaHCl to form and precipitate when the Cl- concentration is high and temperature is low.

Also, nothing special about Na+, any source of Cl- ions should work (KCl for example). Source just needs to remain soluble at low temp so the Cl- are pushing the harmalas to precipitate.

In short, as long as one has harmalaH+ (naturally happens in acid pH and is aka pronated, aka salt form), a reliable source of Cl- ions, and cold, manske (harmalaHCl precipitation) should occur.

I'm not a chemist, this is just what I've gathered so far. If I'm wrong it would be interesting to know. Thanks.
 
Thanks for reply Shadowman x..and everyone...

The tec looks easy !...will crystals cause less stomach problems than something less pure?

Will crystals vaporize easier than a less pure harmalas?



[[[Where did i read that too much salt could cause problems?//]]
 
well i did a quick small scale test on two and a half grams of rue seed .. but i may have used too much salt?

Because after one hour in freezer .. a crystaline mass appeared on bottom of dish ... then I left it in refrigerator all night...

The crystal mass tastes much like salt.. and i assume the harmala is mixed in it?

I know it shouldent be much... but just how much harmala crystals should i expect to get from 2 and a half grams of rue seeds?

Is there any way to sepperate the harmala from the salt crystals/

im shure ill have to try this again...
 
Because of the salty taste i didnt get to the alcohol part of the test yet...

this info on line says too much salt could cause this problem...

Erowid Syrian Rue Vaults: Extraction : Overview
A brief overview of Syrian Rue Extractions, by Zam. ... The most common method for extracting harmala from Syrian Rue seeds is a simple boiling extraction. ... One pitfall with this method is that if too much salt is added, it can also precipitate out as the water cools and extractors end up with a mix of harmala and NaCl.
 
Shadowman-x said:
two and a half grams of seeds? 😁 buddy!
use 100G of seeds. Its easy! They're cheap and you really can't muck it up too much.


I got plenty of rue seed too ...i just wanted to start low as a test to to get the method right.. and see how much crystal equals ..[one dose]..

Because 2 and a half grams is usualy considered one good dose for rue tea...

I also figured that the crystal harmala is much stronger and if i could see and weigh one dose of crystal rue i would know what dosage i was taking..

I was thinking of saftey not being cheap with rue seed!
 
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