Harmine poisoning?

[kemist]

ILpt has his breakfast this morning consistent off 2 hard boiled eggs two slices of brown bread with butter and cup of black tea with little milk

An hour or so after he ingested 400mg of harmine(isolated from rue)and splashed it down with cup of white coffee....

....20` after he noticed familiar buzz and effects start to develop

....but after another 40 mins he become dizzy and drowsy there was looping in his sight what gave him already mentioned "cybersickness" walking cause vertigo and stuff....

...he decided to purge and did so for 15 mins. he has to lay in to the bed to feel alright and not to be nauseous.

.... this become actually very nice apart ILPT didn`t wanna be incapacitated since he has job to do..

... never mind.... when hi shut his eylids they were geometric swirling patterns, and visuals consistent of faces, machines and others man-made thing well known by ILPT from the real world. Nothing unnatural ...

... those "visions" were strong for about an hour then faded away
....cybersickness lasted another three hours

... need to tell he has also OTC antiallergen medicine CETIRIZINE.HCl one pill of 10mg roughly 4-5 hours beforehand

What caused this nasty side effects of such a beautiful substance???
Tyramine in eggs? cetirizine? or simply OVERDOSE ? :?:

........it wasn`t tea neither coffee, ILPT used them with sublingual harmine(up to 250mg)with great success

anyway he`s off to bed now as he has 150mg of harmaline sublingually (without any xanthines)and it making him sleepy now 8)

 

[coz42]

It could possibly be the purity of said product, and I'm quite positive that tyramine+MAO-A is not the cause of nausea.

Weighing at 75kg, taking around 250mg of rue extract genuinely puts me in that head space as harmaline is psychedelic at 100mg doses, as proven sublingually

 

[prottel]

What caused this nasty side effects of such a beautiful substance???

I don't see it as a side effect. I think it is a pretty normal reaction to higher doses of harmine. Perhaps something potentiated the harmine, possibly the coffee.

Btw, did you feel a heavyness? Like a 1000 pound gorilla was sitting on you? :d

My guess is that over time, if you worked with the same dosage, the purging will be less likely. Might take some time though.

I welcome the purging, as does many, if not most experienced ayahuasca users.

 

[kemist]

ILPT said there was no gorilla or other monkey business going on.:lol:
He will be soon of cetrizine medication and will go for high dose of both harmine and harmaline
....for here and now up to 250 mg sublingually is good way to go.
.... it was most likely overdose as there weren`t any impurities apart salt,CH3COONa,and little bit of Na2CO3
Cetrizine itself making him slightly dizzy sometimes and make his mouth dry all the time

I welcome the purging, as does many, if not most experienced ayahuasca users.

ILPT can`t imagine to have light as well and tripping hard whilst purguing. That`s why he never had ayahuasca :shock: but only fumohuasca or spice separately and maoi`s separately

 

[prottel]

ILPT can`t imagine to have light as well and tripping hard whilst purguing. That`s why he never had ayahuasca Shocked but only fumohuasca or spice separately and MAOI`s separately

When I first read about ayahuasca some years back I thought it was not for me because of the vomiting. But I tell you, it ain't that bad, in time you might come to appreciate it. You might start to experience that it unlocks and precipitates crap that has festered in your mind and body.

You don't necessarily purge with the combination of MAOI and DMT. The chances of purging increases with the sum of both. If you want to try this combination, perhaps try with a low dose MAOI and a medium dose DMT? Should make vomiting much less likely.

But if it happens, try to accept it, even welcome it.

 

[acolon_5]

ILpt has his breakfast this morning consistent off 2 hard boiled eggs two slices of brown bread with butter and cup of black tea with little milk

An hour or so after he ingested 400mg of harmine(isolated from rue)and splashed it down with cup of white coffee....

....20` after he noticed familiar buzz and effects start to develop

....but after another 40 mins he become dizzy and drowsy there was looping in his sight what gave him already mentioned "cybersickness" walking cause vertigo and stuff....

...he decided to purge and did so for 15 mins. he has to lay in to the bed to feel alright and not to be nauseous.

.... this become actually very nice apart ILPT didn`t wanna be incapacitated since he has job to do..

... never mind.... when hi shut his eylids they were geometric swirling patterns, and visuals consistent of faces, machines and others man-made thing well known by ILPT from the real world. Nothing unnatural ...

... those "visions" were strong for about an hour then faded away
....cybersickness lasted another three hours

... need to tell he has also OTC antiallergen medicine CETIRIZINE.HCl one pill of 10mg roughly 4-5 hours beforehand

What caused this nasty side effects of such a beautiful substance???
Tyramine in eggs? cetirizine? or simply OVERDOSE ? :?:

........it wasn`t tea neither coffee, ILPT used them with sublingual harmine(up to 250mg)with great success

anyway he`s off to bed now as he has 150mg of harmaline sublingually (without any xanthines)and it making him sleepy now 8)

This sounds like a high dose of Caapi (I know you were using harmine). high doses of harmine can cause all the symptoms you mentioned including the stomach issues and visions.

Coffee could have potentiated the all the effects, positive and negative.

 

[acolon_5]

What caused this nasty side effects of such a beautiful substance???

I don't see it as a side effect. I think it is a pretty normal reaction to higher doses of harmine. Perhaps something potentiated the harmine, possibly the coffee.

Btw, did you feel a heavyness? Like a 1000 pound gorilla was sitting on you? :d

My guess is that over time, if you worked with the same dosage, the purging will be less likely. Might take some time though.

I welcome the purging, as does many, if not most experienced ayahuasca users.

The purge is very emotinoally cleansing in my opinion. I welcome the purge now, it usually denotes the start of my Ayahuasca experience and helps me enter spirit realm with a clean system. I find that it really releases many negative emotions that I have stored up or have become blocked.


On another note: you'd be suprised at how many Americans have intestinal parasites. I believe a study done about 10 years ago had the number at about 15% (this was done in NY). Undercooked pork and beef were the main culprits, as was drinking unclean water. Caapi is known to help rid the body of parasites, partially due to both purges (top and bottom). I imagine that Harmine would act in a similar way.

 

[69ron]

High doses of harmine will cause nausea in some people. It's motion sickness style nausea usually, at least for SWIM. Same goes for THH and harmaline.

 

[kemist]

Goosh :shock: yesterday was ILPT incapacitated again....

He has only 250mg subling. ... (well some of it dripped with saliva down the throat so it was a bit orally too)
and after an half an hour drank again that bloody coffee in course of 50`

.... he done only 3/4 of mug when need for purge took hold

... it must be something in that bloody coffee what makes him that sicky because this time he didn`t overdosed, did he
... it was nescaffe classic instant coffee :roll:

...the side effects were weaker then those that day before but still noticeable and unpleasant

again when he lay down in bed he felt good again and drifted for couple of hours in "visuals"
...now it`s crystal clear why they initially called it thelepatine
... they`re not real visuals like dmt it`s more like daydreaming. he loves it

.... later when dizzines almost gone he took guarana extract pill and attended his 8 hours shift,
...he has another two coffees after two and four hours since his started mentioned nightshift

There was strange post trip state of mind. ILPT was much clever then usually. His mouth and hand like weren`t quick enough compare to the enormous speed in which he was thinking....
amazing :shock:
... he was also more aggressive :shock: then usual
but this aggression went hand in hand with emphathy, it was like some sort of rightsesous anger
.. only towards people whose deserve it ?.... really interesting
Is here something you didn`t tell me guys???

Anyway he ran out his harmine for a while so now he will test precip. which should be harmaline

after that he will search for actives in salting liquores after precip. and some really gentle purification

anyway he discovered several new things which he would like to share with some "harmala heads" around
as a thanx for initial ideas :idea: he will post(trough me) new thread in extraction`s section
..and since it`s all perfectly legal I probably try do one extraction myself and make some research about therapheutical effects of this compounds :d
Thanx very much for your inputs folks, much appreciate.

 

[prottel]

He has only 250mg subling. ... (well some of it dripped with saliva down the throat so it was a bit orally too)
and after an half an hour drank again that bloody coffee in course of 50`

.... he done only 3/4 of mug when need for purge took hold Sad

... it must be something in that bloody coffee what makes him that sicky because this time he didn`t overdosed, did he
... it was nescaffe classic instant coffee

250 mg sublingually? I thought these maois were about 10x as potent sublingually compared to orally. No wonder you get these effects! :lol:

I don't think it is the coffee that makes you feel bad. The thing about these maois is that it usually takes something like 1 hour+ before crap comes up, and that is when you start feeling bad. You can get strong effects earlier too, but it takes a little time to digg up stuff.

 

['Coatl]

I'd leave out the Cetrizine next time.

 

[69ron]

I've got to say that SWIM loves harmine visuals. Harmine is definitely psychedelic for SWIM at 200 mg without any side effects. The visuals are like you said, similar to daydreams. They can be quite amazing. He uses pure harmine he purchases on-line which has all the harmaline removed from it. Harmaline is more likely to cause side effects. You’ll have a better, cleaner experience with pure harmine. With harmaline, side effects kick in at a lower dosage. With THH and harmine, for him, side effects don’t happen until over 300 mg are taken. With harmaline, side effects happen at about 150 mg.

If you really want a full psychedelic experience from harmala alkaloids, the best combination is harmine + THH, about 50:50. THH is more of a true psychedelic than harmine, while harmine is more visual than THH. When the two are combined, the experience is quite something.

SWIM is thinking about mixing harmine with 1-3 Datura stramonium seeds or perhaps 1-3 Datura inoxia seeds in order to take a larger dose without the nausea. He’s nervous about it though and has yet to get the guts to try it out.

SWIM experienced full psychedelic style effects from THH, without the strong visuals of harmine, at 350 mg orally. The problem was dizziness and nausea was present at that dose which made the experience unpleasant. At 300 mg THH didn’t cause psychedelic effects, but there were also no side effects, just euphoria, tingling sensations, etc. At 350 mg, effects included clear alteration of sounds, mild visuals, emotional and mental psychedelic effects similar to LSD, stimulation, feeling of movement without actually moving, slight slowing of time, it was sort of like taking LSD, but along with those effect were nausea and dizziness.

I’m thinking since there was nausea and dizziness, that most likely 1-3 Datura inoxia seeds would be effective at blocking the side effects. Nausea and dizziness are symptoms of motion sickness and Datura inoxia seeds contain nearly pure scopolamine which is the number 1 medication used to treat motion sickness. Even NASA uses scopolamine. Datura stramonium is also useful for treating nausea, but not motion sickness style nausea. So I’m thinking Datura inoxia would be best.

At some point SWIM will try it out and post a report.

Can you imagine s strong harmine trip without the side effects? That would be quite awesome. I’m pretty sure either 1-3 seeds of Datura inoxia or Datura stramonium will make that possible. Hopefully Datura stramonium works because it potentiates the effects of other psychedelics and will probably make the harmine active at even lower doses.

SWIM is excited to try this, but still a little nervous about it.

 

[prottel]

SWIM is excited to try this, but still a little nervous about it.

Looking forward to hearing the results.

 

[kemist]

250 mg sublingually? I thought these maois were about 10x as potent sublingually compared to orally. No wonder you get these effects! :lol:

10x :shock: Blimey!!! he knew is shorter and stronger subl. but 10x ? :shock:

I don't think it is the coffee that makes you feel bad. The thing about these maois is that it usually takes something like 1 hour+ before crap comes up, and that is when you start feeling bad. You can get strong effects earlier too, but it takes a little time to digg up stuff.

never say never for instance coffee contains traces of toxic acrylamide:

The levels of acrylamide ranged from 45 to 374 ng/g in unbrewed coffee grounds, from 172 to 539 ng/g in instant coffee crystals, and from 6 to 16 ng/mL in brewed coffee.

could be any other shit in there you never know

 

[prottel]

Well, maoi can make you feel REALLY bad, especially on high doses, so that would be my main suspect. All your symptoms are common on higher doses of caapi.

 

[kemist]

He uses pure harmine he purchases on-line which has all the harmaline removed from it. Harmaline is more likely to cause side effects. You’ll have a better, cleaner experience with pure harmine. With harmaline, side effects kick in at a lower dosage. With THH and harmine, for him, side effects don’t happen until over 300 mg are taken. With harmaline, side effects happen at about 150 mg.

Well in europe there isn`t harmine vendor even that THH one didn`t pop out yet
ILPT admitting there could be up to 10-15 % of harmaline in his "harmine".
However new approach was determined and will be proceed to obtain virtually harmaline-less harmine

If you really want a full psychedelic experience from harmala alkaloids, the best combination is harmine + THH, about 50:50. THH is more of a true psychedelic than harmine, while harmine is more visual than THH. When the two are combined, the experience is quite something.

pheeww sounds good but again we not in USA and parrot cannot fly that far to get some

SWIM is thinking about mixing harmine with 1-3 Datura stramonium seeds or perhaps 1-3 Datura inoxia seeds in order to take a larger dose without the nausea. He’s nervous about it though and has yet to get the guts to try it out.
I’m thinking since there was nausea and dizziness, that most likely 1-3 Datura inoxia seeds would be effective at blocking the side effects. Nausea and dizziness are symptoms of motion sickness and Datura inoxia seeds contain nearly pure scopolamine which is the number 1 medication used to treat motion sickness. Even NASA uses scopolamine. Datura stramonium is also useful for treating nausea, but not motion sickness style nausea. So I’m thinking Datura inoxia would be best.

ILPT decided to try hyosc. niger seeds but dose is not yet determined

 

[kemist]

Well, maoi can make you feel REALLY bad, especially on high doses, so that would be my main suspect. All your symptoms are common on higher doses of caapi.

Yep there wasn`t mentioned one thing. His scales are not calibrated and very accurate. What if 350mg was actually 450mg :shock:

 

[fuckyourmother]

goin get raped!

 

[SWIMfriend]

Well, maoi can make you feel REALLY bad, especially on high doses, so that would be my main suspect. All your symptoms are common on higher doses of caapi.

Yep there wasn`t mentioned one thing. His scales are not calibrated and very accurate. What if 350mg was actually 450mg :shock:

The effective dose vs LD50 ratio is an important consideration for drug safety...

 

[69ron]

There are many cases of people being poisoned from taking extreme overdoses of peganum harmala, however no human deaths have been reported. The toxic symptoms usually subside within 12 hours. People have eaten up to 100 grams of seeds and survived. That’s a LOT of harmine. With an average of about 3% harmine/harmaline, that’s 3000 mg of harmine/harmaline.

I wouldn’t worry too much about fatal poisoning from harmine/harmaline.

I've included a paper with a case study on the toxicity of peganum harmala.