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Harmine poisoning?

Migrated topic.
THERE WASN`T PROBLEM WITH SCALES

They are been calibrated yesterday and are accurate as before. the have +/- accuracy 2 mg so there wasn`t that big different, sorry about that

..... Anyway I absolutely forgot that ILPT has had higher dose of mentioned harmine probbably week before. It was round 250 mg but that time he hasn`t had any coffee....
For some reason he hasn`t eat anything apart some fruit and veg that day and ate vegetarian meals two days beforhand..... and he didn`t puke that time....

Seems like more toxic shit you have in your body less harmalas is required for purge...
 
kemist said:
Seems like more toxic shit you have in your body less harmalas is required for purge...
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Indeed, that is my experience too. I feel that there are different levels of "toxic shit". You have the surface level that triggers very easily and that can quickly be discarded. Then again, many other herbs triggers this level too. The more caapi/maoi you take the deeper it digs. Some shit takes a long time to surface. There may be other stuff that has to be dug out to get to it. You can use very strong doses of maoi if you want to dig new stuff out. Adding DMT also helps. It puts more force and energy behind the caapi.

Also intention seems to have something to do with it. You can work for years without getting any significant purging, then you change your intention on what you want to work with, and then suddenly it comes. An intention of healing your body and mind may make you purge more than an intention of exploring hyperspace.

Have you ever noticed how clean you feel after some journeys? You can go into the forest or outside and see the beauty that is in nature. It is like the world or your perceptions has been washed clean. In my mind this is because it has cleaned out the surface level of your mind. It is like the surface of a water in motion. It is hard to see through. But if it is still, you can see much clearer what is beneath. The problem is that the surface area is not agitated by itself. There can be rocks that disturbs the peace. I think that with psychedelics, and perhaps especially with the maoi/dmt combo you can dig deeper and remove the culprits. You can dig under the surface and remove that stone that agitates the water. This way you will have permanently have removed something from yourself that creates disturbances.

So, i'd say continue digging, and who knows what you will find down there :)
 
Dagger said:
Indeed, that is my experience too. I feel that there are different levels of "toxic shit". You have the surface level that triggers very easily and that can quickly be discarded. Then again, many other herbs triggers this level too. The more caapi/maoi you take the deeper it digs. Some shit takes a long time to surface. There may be other stuff that has to be dug out to get to it. You can use very strong doses of maoi if you want to dig new stuff out. Adding DMT also helps. It puts more force and energy behind the caapi.

Also intention seems to have something to do with it. You can work for years without getting any significant purging, then you change your intention on what you want to work with, and then suddenly it comes. An intention of healing your body and mind may make you purge more than an intention of exploring hyperspace.
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GOOSH If one never tried harmalas ,he would say what you wrote is INSANE, but it`s actually NOT
...
 
Anyway now Harmaline is tested...

....Ilpt decieded that most reliable would be using it half subling(to get the buzz quicker :) )and half oraly(to make it last).This way they dissolving in matter of 5-10 mins under the tongue and dripping with saliva down the throat. Overall after ~ 15 mins bitterness becomes annoying so he splashing it down with some water.
He found out that the bitterness of alks have some insides. But he generally like bitter stuff(he doesn`t even use sugar for tea or coffee)and he eating sweets only when stoned get `munchies`

...anyway

1,50 mg day before yesterday didn`t brought any effects but significant mood improvement for 6-8
hours plus some decent yawning (which was killed with two coffees and a bull)

2, 80 mg yesterday brought on greater mood ,but there were tiny signs of looping and slight(yet comfortable) dizziness crept in...

So far no vision ......

....100mg should bring more dizzines and ILPT has job to do therefore testing have to continue on Tuesday...

For now it seems that harmaline is more sleepy and lazy then harmine...


what light should ILPT take with his harmalas after he establish adequate dose for him ...

he has about 20mg of vicoius Jungle spice, but he would like something more healing full...
...should he grab some plant(psychotria)
What ayahuascero recommended
 
kemist said:
what light should ILPT take with his harmalas after he establish adequate dose for him ...

he has about 20mg of vicoius Jungle spice, but he would like something more healing full...
...should he grab some plant(psychotria)
What ayahuascero recommended
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That is up to you, although I am not sure about the jungle spice. Most experienced people do prefer viridis or chaliponga, although mimosa ain't bad. Try them all and see for yourself.

Not sure why there is a difference, perhaps a different alkaloid profile.
 
kemist said:
can ya copy-paste higlights please ?
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From the ayahuasca forum thread:
Anonymous said:
To throw my glove onto the playing field, I like both -- a high vine + high admixture tea. I find the synergy to be downright magical.

With too little admixture I find that I can't do what I set out to do, as the mind doesn't tune into the right "frequencies." With too little vine the experience isn't pulled into the body enough, and the physical organism can feel slighted. But with both the body and mind are brought into magical, unitive harmony.

But any tea can be good. I've had tea with minimal vine and been shown amazing things. Likewise with tea with little admixture.

One should drink at least the quantity that you need to act upon your intentions, but at most the quantity which is safe for your body, mind, and environment. That's a wide continuum, and no one knows what your particular end-points are, so you should adopt a strategy for (safely) finding them.
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vaster than empires said:
what i'd add (and this is only my experience), is that too much admixture overwhelms the vine visuals, and i tend to get lots more geometric shapes. when the admix is just right, it compliments the visuals of the vine, painting them, so to speak. as far as i'm concerned, the real, visual aspect of ayahuasca is vine driven. (i've been working with some yellow vine recently -- 200g vine to 10g chali has been amazing. i should add that i bought the vine cheap, and it's pretty old -- so a fresher vine would be about half as much, 100g)

the above goes for the teaching that aya imparts, too.

a vine only or low admix tea is a quiet experience, and visuals & voice are there (if enough vine is used), but this seems much more like a low-level theraputic experience, which leaves me feeling mentally and emotionally refreshed. if you're trying to end an addictive/habitual behavior, i'd recommend this type of tea, 2 to 4 times/month, for several months.
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Anonymous said:
With caapi I've had anything from about 40 to about 125 grams of several different colors. I don't find as much variation in caapi strength as with other plants, so I tend to center around 75 grams per serving. That's more-or-less my "spot;" the nausea is manageable, the effects are strong-ish, and the purge goes well, getting the gunk out (physical, psychological, spiritual) but moving to completion -- there is little worse than an incomplete purge!. I used to brew the tea with about 50 grams per serving, but I found that 75 just works better. Properly alloyed in can bring an experience of profound energy into one's body that has to be experienced to be believed and appreciated. At 50 grams the ceremonies tended to be much more mental and seemed to lack a important component.

Normal ranges of caapi tend to fall between 50 and 100 grams, although some people go higher, some lower.

The approach to the admixture is a little more complicated and delicate. When approaching material of unknown potency I tend to start with a quantity that I estimate to be about half of a strong experience. For example, with MHRB I tend to brew with about 10 grams, so if I were to use a new batch of unknown quality I would start with 5. Please note that this lies a little out of the range that is usually recommended; most folks here recommend beginning with 3-4 grams of MHRB if you're inexperienced.

The last few times I've brewed the tea with 75 grams of cielo caapi, 30 grams of chaliponga, and an unmeasured quantity of mimosa extract (per serving). The chali I have seems a good deal weaker than some on the market, and many people report 10-15 grams as being quite intense. At 30 grams this chali is somewhat mild, which is why I've been adding a little mimosa extract, perhaps doubling the strength of the admixtures.
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Anonymous said:
I can walk, after a fashion, on both 50 and 75 grams, but it took a long time to learn to do so (i should note that, save accident or substandard components I always alloy my tea now, so unraveling the effects of one component from another is more an exercise in intuition and experience than an empirical fact). The world's stage can be somewhat insubstantial from the vantage point of the tea-infused mind, so locomotion is rarely easy. At 50 grams the control of one's body isn't too hard (with practice). With 75 grams proprioception is altered, so it can be hard to know what position your body or limbs are in without actually looking. Laying with eyes closed it can feel as if one's body is undulating like a snake or as if one's limbs are moving in the air on their own accord.

With 75 grams it can feel as if the body is being messaged, stretched, and contorted by a pair of high-voltage hands. Incredible energy can be felt moving through the body, the latter feeling like nothing so much as a conduit for the former. If one gives way to it the experience is rejuvenating and ecstatic. At the peak walking, even if possible, would be unwise. At 50 grams I am unlikely to feel the energy, although the stretching and message can sometimes be felt.

I've never been given to tracers. I do notice my eyes twitching around very quickly (almost as if I'm sitting on a vibrating platform), so it becomes very hard to focus on any one thing. This can happen at either dose, although it is stronger at 75.

Thinking back, I haven't heard the buzzing much at all in the past few years (where previously it was a signpost that things were getting ready to begin). Regardless, the buzzing seems to be (to me) a synergetic phenomena, requiring both vine and admixture of sufficient quantity. I do hear beautiful ringing tones and singing (the main conduit for information transfer), but I associate these more with the admixture than the vine. The vine, at 75 grams, can produce visions of an intense hypnogogic type which are very similar to the visions of deep meditation. At 50 grams I am unlikely to notice much in the way of visions from the vine; at that dose the admixture plants seem to drive the visions (which are beautiful, deep, and abstract but which lack representational form).

The vine -- at any dose -- always makes me heavy and tired and cold. At 75 grams the cold can be extreme. Some of the coldest I've ever been in my life is during the period of time after which the vine has kicked in but before I've moved to the realm of pure perception (in which coldness is experienced but not felt).

The handful of times that I've used Rue (cold infusion, between 6 and 8 grams -- I have a healthy MAO system) I have noticed little (if any) of the above, so I have some confidence that the above effects come more from the vine than the admixture, even if an admixture may help to actually feel them.
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vaster than empires said:
i'd add in that a high vine/high admix tends to cause more of this body shaking/moving than a normal range of vine/admix, or a solo high vine.
i find it pleasant, in a strange way, like my body is being energetically tuned. once, i started shaking with big vibrations in my chest, out near the ribs -- the shakes started moving in towards my heart, and as they did, became very fine and fast vibrations. at first, i was a bit worried, but then i realized it was the vine working on me, and i relaxed into it.

i'm pretty much glued to one spot when this sort of thing is happening. it always backs off when i need to purge, which i'm thankful for!
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I'd recommend registering. A lot of interesting stuff over there if you take the time to read.
 
Today he took another larger dose of 220 mgs.
Boy this stuff is strong.Three hours after ingestion he has a dash of coffee and vomit immediately. He felt harmine buzzing strongly still feel the afterglow, now 9 hours after ingestion(it took an hour to kick on, as it was gelcaped)he also felt harmaline. He even seen swirling patterns whith eyes closed, faces metamorfing ( both only black and white) and other cevs typical for harmalas.

He precipip. about pH 8,5 but think he has more then 10 % harmaline in this mixture.

He is a bit pissed of, as he couldn`t attend work :shock: When harmaline running strong he cannot concentrate or read from the screen and using touchscreen an reading it`s involved in his duties :(

He thinking to reddisolve precip and basify with sodium bicarbonate to get as litttle harmaline as possible.
ILPT giving up with weed and need harmine and thh to go trough these hard days 😉
Harmaline is undesirable for daily use, but occasionaly few ahours before going to bed it`s nice to heave this light dreamy visuals. Harmaline very incapacitate ILPT in psychedelic doses so he is only able lying in the bed and do nothing.
He also vomit a lot from harmaline and don`t wanna socializing or talk to the people at all.

On harmine he talk way too much. It`s so stimulating, but it need to be harmaline free.
 
High doese of rue feel very toxic and are never any fun. In fact, none of the harmala's are any fun at high doses. With Caapi at least you can get some very important visions (not visuals), but it is still an uncomfortable ride.

The type of extraction you did also makes a big difference. If you only did an A/B you will have all the toxic alkaloids that are in the rue. If you did a Manske at some point a large majority (if not all) should have been removed. IF you only did the A/B 400mgs would produce a very unhappy experiences.

Mixing a high dose of harmine/harmaline (that's what's in rue) with a bit of coffee makes for a VERY unpleasant ride. If people decide to take large doses of harmala alkaloids they should refrain from coffee, stims of any kind (esp "energy drinks") and for the most part, all pharma's.

Even RIMA's mixed with the wrong thing can be a disaster.
 
acolon_5 said:
Mixing a high dose of harmine/harmaline (that's what's in rue) with a bit of coffee makes for a VERY unpleasant ride. If people decide to take large doses of harmala alkaloids they should refrain from coffee, stims of any kind (esp "energy drinks")
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Geez you just remind him.
ILPT have had THH in the morning later he drunk two coffees and later he had relentless juiced (energy drink with caffeine and taurine)

BEWARE !
DON`T TRY IT YOURSELF.
HE NEVER GONNA DO IT AGAIN

ILPT is so lucky because he has high tolerance to caffeine. He can drink as many as 5 coffees (at decent strenght) during nightshift. This probably saved his poor life.

He doesn`t exactly remember , how much THH he took and by which route.(sorry) However he was in great mood and buzzing from the coffee and thh nicely. Then he drank relentless and that was it.
In matter of hour he was so speeded up , it was insane. The stimulation was as strong as meth can give. It become unpleasant after while as rapid hartbeat worried ILPT. He thought the stuff make him explode.He was extremely speeded up also his brain worked so quick that it hurted.
Finally 14 hours after thh have been taken ILPT was able to get into bed and get some sleep. (It was hard day at busy fastfood restaurant,where ILPT earning some extra cash working part time)
However he could sleep only 4 hours (instead of normal 8-9) and slept rough (turning around in bed all the time)
He has bit of sleeping disorder, even 2 nights after this experience.
 
Alright guys I gotta chime in here. Combining coffee with high doses of harmaloids is not a good idea.

Both increase your heart rate. Coffee also has some MAOI effects. Combining to two has been responsible for hospitilizing an individual. Although no death has been reported its not a smart combination. As kemists experience shows it should be avoided. Just because some of you can combine the two doesn't mean everybody can or should. There is no reason too the effects of rue are strong enough on their own. Someone who has heart problems or is older could seriously be putting their life at risk.
 
Yep, maois seems to potentiate the xanthines by A LOT. Perhaps 5x potentiation. My girlfriend also noticed that with turmeric and chocolate, made her really speedy. But I believe you can take the xanthines before taking the maoi, perhaps 1 hour+ or more beforehand. But this may potentiate the maoi...Many seem to take yerba mate or guayusa with ayahuasca to no ill effect. But taking maoi first, then later on caffeine/theobromine...Speedy :lol:

But yes,some people does seem to get a very strong potentiation of the maoi, when the maoi is taken after the xanthines, especially if you take large amounts of it, like 5 cups of coffee. It could be dangerous.
 
It’s likely that all of these MAOIs affect each person a little differently.

SWIM drinks coffee all the time and never had a problem with it, especially with THH. He’s had as much as 300 mg of THH orally with several cups of coffee and was fine. The coffee wasn’t any more potent. However, he’s noticed that with harmine or harmaline the coffee is about double potency, so the MAOI effects of THH, harmine, and harmaline are not quite the same for SWIM. With SWIM THH seems to go better with things that harmine and harmaline don’t go well with. For example, 200 mg of THH and 100 mg of mescaline is a pretty smooth experience, but 200 mg of harmine and 100 mg of mescaline is a speedy experience.

I think the MAOI effects of THH are very limited compared to those of harmine or harmaline. What’s interesting is that the DMT activating effects of THH are the same as those of harmine, but harmine seems to be a much more potent MAOI than THH is, at least for SWIM. But maybe their MAOI effects are the same, but rather it’s their other effects that are the problem. Harmine is a stimulant at high doses, and combining it with coffee or mescaline causes much more stimulation. THH is also a stimulant at high doses, but it doesn’t seem to increase the stimulant effects of coffee or mescaline, but seems to actually bring them down a notch for SWIM. However, THH increases the stimulant effects of DMT for SWIM more than harmine or harmaline can.

Anyone else have similar experiences with theses?
 
Guys you twisted what i said. My warning was about energy drinks. Caffeine is not a problem but taurine is ! Tonight ILPT having 70 mgs of thh subling. and already have had three coffees with no problems. He is not speeded up only alerted and happy. Again he has huge tolerance to caffeine so don't take him for example. When coffee ingested with harmine freebase it always make him purge or feel just uncomfy heavy feeling in tummy. Not much of speedines unless taurine is taken. Ok
 
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