Harvesting bark

[The Unknowing]

Hi,

I've recently gone for a bushwalk and identified the Acacia Pycnantha.
There were plenty of young trees with healthy looking bark, but I found a few trees that had collapsed and were beginning to die. The bark on the dying trees is a dark reddish/brown colour as could be removed very easily by hand.

My question is,
Is dried out bark sufficient to make an extraction? Does the alkaloid content change with age?

 

[zzzwurple]

Thats been salted out of limonene?
Looks ok but not in smokable form. If its goey you can do amor fatis process now to freebase. Youre nearly done!

OK so unfortunately this goo is either 1) not in a vape-able form 2) I have followed the process incorrectly or 3) an error of mine with the identification of the species. I used 'the machine' that has successfully vaped many crystals...while the goo is no longer tasting vinegary, as well as smelling slightly 'plasticy' a bitter taste was left in my mouth when vaped. Corn chips seem to be helping with that. But no psychoactive properties observed. The area I collected from has been listed by a gov study in the region on a particular stretch of road, and supposedly it is the Jam Wattle that is found there. I saw no other type of wattle/ acacia in the area. They were flowering at the time. Being no expert though it is possible...I have the wrong species. Or I need to further extract...what do you think? BTW I do have phyllodes in the freezer (after being well ground and soaked in vinegar for 12 hours) and then tomorrow follow the additional instructions. Maybe that will achieve different results...anyhow i appreciate your walk-through and I am hoping to have success soon!!

 

[DreaMTripper]

Thats been salted out of limonene?
Looks ok but not in smokable form. If its goey you can do amor fatis process now to freebase. Youre nearly done!

What I did was use the non-polar solvent (vinegar and then water) to separate the fumerate (?) in 3 pulls from the limonene (after the phyllodes had soaked for 24-48-72 hours +) in the limonene...separating the bottom layer from the top (reserving bottom layer) using a stainless baster with an injection tip. To get a dark goo I re-reduced (hot water bath) after filtering well (I did not do this previously) but I don't know how to 'salt out' the limonene....unless the evap like i have done is what that means? I have included the most recent pic- thanks again-

ok lets backtrack first stop smoking it.

Vinegar and water is not the NP solvent limonene is, you cant evap limonene but seems like youe tried? There is no fumarate as such that requires fumaric acid....

The goo is (should be) after vinegaring, the alkaloid salts which you cant smoke.

You need to soak/boil the phyllodes in vinegar-water not limonene.
Stop everything im just on way to work, will try and come up with a salvage later, unless someone else can beforehand?

 

[zzzwurple]

Thats been salted out of limonene?
Looks ok but not in smokable form. If its goey you can do amor fatis process now to freebase. Youre nearly done!

What I did was use the non-polar solvent (vinegar and then water) to separate the fumerate (?) in 3 pulls from the limonene (after the phyllodes had soaked for 24-48-72 hours +) in the limonene...separating the bottom layer from the top (reserving bottom layer) using a stainless baster with an injection tip. To get a dark goo I re-reduced (hot water bath) after filtering well (I did not do this previously) but I don't know how to 'salt out' the limonene....unless the evap like i have done is what that means? I have included the most recent pic- thanks again-

ok lets backtrack first stop smoking it.

Vinegar and water is not the NP solvent limonene is, you cant evap limonene but seems like youe tried? There is no fumarate as such that requires fumaric acid....

The goo is (should be) after vinegaring, the alkaloid salts which you cant smoke.

You need to soak/boil the phyllodes in vinegar-water not limonene.
Stop everything im just on way to work, will try and come up with a salvage later, unless someone else can beforehand?

Well the goo I have is a result of following the Q21 Tek (food safe); first the dried and ground phyllodes (the Tek is for bark- not phyllodes- not sure if this makes a difference...?) were mixed with vinegar and allowed to stand. Then lime (calcium hydroxide) was stirred into the mix and left to sit with limonene covering the material. I drained off the limonene into a jar and added vinegar and shook. After the polar (limonene) and non polar (vinegar) separated then I used a baster to remove the bottom layer from the top. Then I added hot water to the limonene reserved and shook the jar, waited for the layers to separate and then removed the bottom non-polar layer (water) and added to this to the vinegar. I did 3 such pulls over a week. I reduced the vinegar water solution, filtered through a ciggy filter (roll your own- no fiberglass) and reduced further in a hot water bath. Now I have the goo that I can't smoke . Assuming the goo I have is alkaloid salts, do I now need to use sodium bicarbonate to create a freebase form? Trying to not just rely on your help I have looked on the forums but not found just how to do this. Just a lot of references to doing this.

Now I am trying experiment #3 at your suggestion not using limonene at all, only vinegar and vodka and reducing. The ground and previously dried phyllodes are now thawing after soaking o/n and then freezing o/n. So I will try this...do you know what ppl are talking about with the sodium bicarb to separate from the goo a freebase form? If I can save my goo...Cheers mate

 

[DreaMTripper]

Ah ok I thought it looked right. There are a few conversion methods on the nexus wiki. Step 6 acetates conversion BLAB - The Big Leisurely A/B - DMT-Nexus Wiki
Choose one you have the resources for and are comfortable doing..they have great breakdowns of the methods. Its sodium CARBonate you use not BICARB thats too weak.

Sodium carbonate raises the pH of the solution so dmt is in its freebase form and a couple of steps away from a dry vapeable form.

 

[zzzwurple]

Ah ok I thought it looked right. There are a few conversion methods on the nexus wiki. Step 6 acetates conversion BLAB - The Big Leisurely A/B - DMT-Nexus Wiki
Choose one you have the resources for and are comfortable doing..they have great breakdowns of the methods. Its sodium CARBonate you use not BICARB thats too weak.

Sodium carbonate raises the pH of the solution so dmt is in its freebase form and a couple of steps away from a dry vapeable form.

Many thanks to you- I have thought I have followed the directions this far- with both methods and I am reducing the 'amor fatis' method as described ATM and will report back on both and what has been the best and easiest of the two- I will look for sodium carbonate in the meantime...Cheers for all the help

 

[DreaMTripper]

No worries you can get it as washing soda cheap at woolworths, Lectrics in a red and white pack.

 

[zzzwurple]

Ah ok I thought it looked right. There are a few conversion methods on the nexus wiki. Step 6 acetates conversion BLAB - The Big Leisurely A/B - DMT-Nexus Wiki
Choose one you have the resources for and are comfortable doing..they have great breakdowns of the methods. Its sodium CARBonate you use not BICARB thats too weak.

Sodium carbonate raises the pH of the solution so dmt is in its freebase form and a couple of steps away from a dry vapeable form.

Many thanks to you- I have thought I have followed the directions this far- with both methods and I am reducing the 'amor fatis' method as described ATM and will report back on both and what has been the best and easiest of the two- I will look for sodium carbonate in the meantime...Cheers for all the help

Results from experiment #3 'Amor fatis' this is so simple and dead easy (so far) and after the steps provided the results are a very dark brown extremely sticky thick goo/ resin that does not smell of vinegar. The yield from the phyllodes is impressive...much, much better than the vinegar/lime/limonene Tek as far as amount obtained in my experiment #2 (using phyllodes and extracting with vinegar/lime/limonene..) Now I don't have a bong for changa, and would like to convert to the freebase form that can be vaped in my 'machine', so I take it that by following the instructions provided in the link supplied, that I can use the sodium carbonate to convert into a freebase form. If I can do this, I will never have to use anything other than phyllodes in the future...and why would anyone want to use bark and toxic chemicals?! I will let you know how i go- so am I right in assuming the resulting resin from the 'Amor Fatis' Tek is in fact DMT acetate?

 

[DreaMTripper]

How did you get the brown goo? Just a boil down of the liquid?
If you havent used sodium carbonate yet then it is still alkaloid(hopefully mainly DMT) acetate.
Have a read of the faq on the nexus wiki page its important to know the terminology and have at least a basic understanding of extraction chemistry.
Yes phyllodes are easy and pleasant to work with and if you prepare them well beforehand you cant really go wrong if its a reliable species especially with the Jams. Have you pH/litmus papers?

 

[zzzwurple]

How did you get the brown goo? Just a boil down of the liquid?
If you havent used sodium carbonate yet then it is still alkaloid(hopefully mainly DMT) acetate.
Have a read of the faq on the nexus wiki page its important to know the terminology and have at least a basic understanding of extraction chemistry.
Yes phyllodes are easy and pleasant to work with and if you prepare them well beforehand you cant really go wrong if its a reliable species especially with the Jams. Have you pH/litmus papers?

Yes the goo was the result of just boiling down the liquid, after drying, grinding, freezing, defrosting and mashing the phyllodes. First boil of an hour or so (with vinegar and vodka) and second boil of 30 minutes then added to the first, straining through cotton wool in a funnel. I boiled down the liquid in a pot and then decanted into a pyrex dish and reduced in a water bath. I haven't used the sodium carbonate yet but i picked it up easily as described...I don't have much of an understanding of chemistry- been out of school for a long time- but it's an effective way of learning; creating something magical and out of this World. I have PH strips 0-14. If what I have now is likely acetate then I can follow the instructions on the link you provided...might not throw in the lot first...see how it goes and then update...can the phyllodes of many acacias be used in a similar way? Every second tree is an acacia here...

 

[DreaMTripper]

Ok sounds like your on task, yeah maybe try converting half of the goo first. Good luck!

Most active acacia will have active phyllodes, you are lucky for having such a vast ammount of a.acuminata on your doorstep. Check acacia info for other active plants in your area.

 

[zzzwurple]

Ok sounds like your on task, yeah maybe try converting half of the goo first. Good luck!

Most active acacia will have active phyllodes, you are lucky for having such a vast ammount of a.acuminata on your doorstep. Check acacia info for other active plants in your area.

OK. Well I did mix an excess amount of sodium carbonate and water, dried and powdered. I then washed and pulled after settling using IPA first (resulted in less goo, dark brown, not psychoactive) and then I pulled with acetone (more yellowish, melts better into scourer, smokes rather than vapes- not harsh but not psychoactive either...)

So I think 1) The phyllode tips do not containe any/ enough DMT 2) i picked at wrong time of year (Winter into Spring) 3) a mis-identification on my part (but I'm not sure about that) 4) ?

I have included a pic of after 'amor fatis' tek and after 'A/B Blab' step six converting DMT acetate to freebase and then washing/ pulling with acetone

 

[DreaMTripper]

Hmm yeah not sure what youve done wrong seems a lot of tars and resins in there. Did you de-fat?
Give us a breif step by step summary of your procedure so we can pinpoint what you missed.. Acuminata is reliable (narrow phyllode anyway) so possibly a mis-id but looks like youve also gone wrong somewhere it shouldnt be that tarry after the conversion.

I advise you try and thoroughly mix it all into some vinegar and leave it for a while to dissolve and salt any alkaloids, then do a defat with NP or sunflower oil to get the oils out.. then rebase or convert again to freebase using sodium carbonate..
Was the IPA dry? (waterless)

 

[zzzwurple]

Hmm yeah not sure what youve done wrong seems a lot of tars and resins in there. Did you de-fat?
Give us a breif step by step summary of your procedure so we can pinpoint what you missed.. Acuminata is reliable (narrow phyllode anyway) so possibly a mis-id but looks like youve also gone wrong somewhere it shouldnt be that tarry after the conversion.

I advise you try and thoroughly mix it all into some vinegar and leave it for a while to dissolve and salt any alkaloids, then do a defat with NP or sunflower oil to get the oils out.. then rebase or convert again to freebase using sodium carbonate..
Was the IPA dry? (waterless)

I did not de-fat. There does not seem to be a reference to that I could see. I have searched and there is reference to de-fat with hot sunflower oil or naptha but not instructions. I suppose many people are working with bark rather than phyllodes and maybe is why? The tar is very tarry...I do have some left...so if I soak/ dissolve the tar in vinegar, then add hot sunflower oil (or naptha) and then reserve/ keep the (vinegar?) and discard the sunflower oil, and repeat 3-4x; then what I am left with I can evap, mix with carbonate, dry and powder, pull with acetone? Would that be right or is that wrong. If I can make this work I will be amazed at this point

I did use 100% IPA and then 100% acetone- for the two experiments...

 

[DreaMTripper]

Yes thoroughly mix and dissolve in hot vinegar then let cool and pull with hot sunflower oil separate and reduce the vinegar down to a goo again. Then try the sodium carbonate and IPA pull again.
What are the noodle-like things in it? Is it solid or waxy?

Next time you can actually follow the BLAB tek but throw in some vodka to help things along and prepare the phyllodes like you did before via soaking freezing thawing.

Here is a paragraph attached you might like..

 

[DreaMTripper]

Hmm yeah not sure what youve done wrong seems a lot of tars and resins in there. Did you de-fat?
Give us a breif step by step summary of your procedure so we can pinpoint what you missed.. Acuminata is reliable (narrow phyllode anyway) so possibly a mis-id but looks like youve also gone wrong somewhere it shouldnt be that tarry after the conversion.

I advise you try and thoroughly mix it all into some vinegar and leave it for a while to dissolve and salt any alkaloids, then do a defat with NP or sunflower oil to get the oils out.. then rebase or convert again to freebase using sodium carbonate..
Was the IPA dry? (waterless)

I did not de-fat. There does not seem to be a reference to that I could see. I have searched and there is reference to de-fat with hot sunflower oil or naptha but not instructions. I suppose many people are working with bark rather than phyllodes and maybe is why? The tar is very tarry...I do have some left...so if I soak/ dissolve the tar in vinegar, then add hot sunflower oil (or naptha) and then reserve/ keep the (vinegar?) and discard the sunflower oil, and repeat 3-4x; then what I am left with I can evap, mix with carbonate, dry and powder, pull with acetone? Would that be right or is that wrong. If I can make this work I will be amazed at this point

I did use 100% IPA and then 100% acetone- for the two experiments...

How did it go?

 

[zzzwurple]

A little too late lamby! The extraction failed. Will be searching for some fresh burkitti bark this time, probably phyllodes would be better if I can get some. I'll have to drive inland to find any though, at least 3 hours travel time. Sigh.

At least my baby acuminata's are growing like crazy! (not really)

Damn! I think Simplexus and SWIM agree. That outer bark is a pipe dream.

What tek are you using out of interest? A lovely brew of 1.8kgs cooks as SWIM writes.

Anyhoo, why not try a trip out west? As soon as I can PM you I can tell you exactly where you'll find manna from heaven on every country road. Talking with a pal, SWIM was told: anyone would be happy if someone came and removed a few hundred of those jam trees!

I could add a bit to this Wattle Day page in the section 'What do wattles mean to Australians?'...you might find something interesting here too.

A trip West yesterday and road works (road widening) Spencer Brook Rd. from York and several Jam Wattles been felled recently...unless I have misidentified- have still failed to yield a positive extraction from past using phyllodes and well dead and dried bark...these felled trees have phyllodes that are still green and the inner bark has moisture- pinkish layer between outer dark crust and inner whitish/ yellowish timber... just across the train tracks as one enters Shire of Northam...immediate left on to dirt track after crossing train tracks...couple big heavy trees...I'll update and hopefully I will finally have some success. Crossing my fingers

 

[zzzwurple]

Hmm yeah not sure what youve done wrong seems a lot of tars and resins in there. Did you de-fat?
Give us a breif step by step summary of your procedure so we can pinpoint what you missed.. Acuminata is reliable (narrow phyllode anyway) so possibly a mis-id but looks like youve also gone wrong somewhere it shouldnt be that tarry after the conversion.

I advise you try and thoroughly mix it all into some vinegar and leave it for a while to dissolve and salt any alkaloids, then do a defat with NP or sunflower oil to get the oils out.. then rebase or convert again to freebase using sodium carbonate..
Was the IPA dry? (waterless)

I did not de-fat. There does not seem to be a reference to that I could see. I have searched and there is reference to de-fat with hot sunflower oil or naptha but not instructions. I suppose many people are working with bark rather than phyllodes and maybe is why? The tar is very tarry...I do have some left...so if I soak/ dissolve the tar in vinegar, then add hot sunflower oil (or naptha) and then reserve/ keep the (vinegar?) and discard the sunflower oil, and repeat 3-4x; then what I am left with I can evap, mix with carbonate, dry and powder, pull with acetone? Would that be right or is that wrong. If I can make this work I will be amazed at this point

I did use 100% IPA and then 100% acetone- for the two experiments...

How did it go?

I appreciate all your help with extraction from phyllodes- unfortunately it ended up being unsuccessful and with some expense. I have been away for awhile...would of replied sooner..the quote is meaningful. I lean towards Buddhism myself. I'll let you know how it goes soon with next experiment

 

[omnilucident]

What tek are you using out of interest? A lovely brew of 1.8kgs cooks as SWIM writes.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've got a 2kg Acuminata soup I've had far too much difficulty extracting. I was wondering if you could share your large quantity technique?
Mostly which solvent, how much per pull, how much liquid you're working with and what heat you work at.
I can't PM otherwise I would have left this thread alone.

Also any of you Acuminata fans know whether its too late in the season? Will yields have dropped/will trees be flowering because of the recent climate change?

I wouldn't brother with dead bark unless you know for sure it hasn't rained and that white ants haven't had a go at it. If the bark is as hard to remove as a live tree then I think its safe. good zzzwurple

 

[zzzwurple]

What tek are you using out of interest? A lovely brew of 1.8kgs cooks as SWIM writes.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've got a 2kg Acuminata soup I've had far too much difficulty extracting. I was wondering if you could share your large quantity technique?
Mostly which solvent, how much per pull, how much liquid you're working with and what heat you work at.
I can't PM otherwise I would have left this thread alone.

Also any of you Acuminata fans know whether its too late in the season? Will yields have dropped/will trees be flowering because of the recent climate change?

I wouldn't brother with dead bark unless you know for sure it hasn't rained and that white ants haven't had a go at it. If the bark is as hard to remove as a live tree then I think its safe. good zzzwurple

The thread has been dead for awhile. I sort of hijacked the thread myself. I am not able to PM either as I'm still a seedling. Someone did say earlier this thread that DMT concentration is at it's peak mid-summer. I would also appreciate if RAL could enlighten me as to the method used for acuminata extraction as I have fresh bark finally...I am going to try the vinegar/limonene/lime (q21q21) tek again and see if I get results...will update. Soon...

 

[omnilucident]

Good luck buddy! let me know how it goes.
I just got a whole load of phyllodes but will have to wait till I can PM to get the tek I need to extract from them.