Heat DMT-solution - loose crystals?

[West-en]

When performing my very first extraction (STB), the (beautiful shiny white) DMT ended up precipitated in glass jars with a little heptane left in the bottom. The crystals were all over the sides. So, I got the idea to place the jar on my USB cupheater (maybe 50-60 degrees) to speed up the evaporation (first extraction-excitement and impatience). There was maybe 50-100mg in there, and when I looked five-ten minutes later, the only thing left was a little cloudy heptane in the bottom. Did I accidentally boil the DMT away? How carefully does one have to be when heating solutions to increase evaporationspeeds, is this a common problem?
Of course I put next pull in that same jar to reuse what might had been left, and I probably won't be heating anything again, but I wonder if this is something one should watch out for?

 

[SWIMfriend]

60C is aournd the melting point of DMT-freebase. It may be possible to eventually evaporate DMT-freebase if kept at 60C for a long time. Far more likely is that the DMT just re-dissolved back into your solvent--or perhaps redissolved AND melted back into the solvent.

Keep in mind that excessive heat can oxidize DMT-freebase.

 

[West-en]

60C is aournd the melting point of DMT-freebase. It may be possible to eventually evaporate DMT-freebase if kept at 60C for a long time. Far more likely is that the DMT just re-dissolved back into your solvent--or perhaps redissolved AND melted back into the solvent.

Keep in mind that excessive heat can oxidize DMT-freebase.

Oh thanks, now I'm happy! Since I reused it I should get a happy surprise in the freezer then. What is the boiling point? I've got very different numbers from different people.
I'm aware of the fact that the reaction DMT + Oxygen → DMT N-Oxide speeds up when there's heat, but this should have shown itself in the form of a yellow discolouration, something that only was present in one single crystal of my yield. Strange.

 

[Eezergoode]

bit of a noob question but whats the difforence between DMT N-Oxide and just normal N N DMT? is it only visable or are the effects diffirent? Can DMT N-Oxide be harmfull in away more?
thanks =]

 

[SWIMfriend]

bit of a noob question but whats the difforence between DMT N-Oxide and just normal N N DMT? is it only visable or are the effects diffirent? Can DMT N-Oxide be harmfull in away more?
thanks =]

I'm not certain, but I think there's "DMT oxide" and "DMT oxide."

The first is accurately named, results from simply leaving it lying around, and, according to some, is as nice--or even nicer--than non-oxidized DMT.

The second is "burned" DMT--which could be anything and everything. It comes from over-heating spice when trying to vaporize from smoking. It it the likely cause of the extreme harshness that some users report.

 

[SWIMfriend]

60C is aournd the melting point of DMT-freebase. It may be possible to eventually evaporate DMT-freebase if kept at 60C for a long time. Far more likely is that the DMT just re-dissolved back into your solvent--or perhaps redissolved AND melted back into the solvent.

Keep in mind that excessive heat can oxidize DMT-freebase.

Oh thanks, now I'm happy! Since I reused it I should get a happy surprise in the freezer then. What is the boiling point? I've got very different numbers from different people.
I'm aware of the fact that the reaction DMT + Oxygen → DMT N-Oxide speeds up when there's heat, but this should have shown itself in the form of a yellow discolouration, something that only was present in one single crystal of my yield. Strange.

Right, I've also read that DMT-oxide has a yellow discoloration--and that it is expected in any extraction, because there is almost certain to be some (or much) DMT-oxide already in MHRB.

 

[West-en]

I was able to retrieve them, my conclusion is that it simply melted into the heptane!

Right, I've also read that DMT-oxide has a yellow discoloration--and that it is expected in any extraction, because there is almost certain to be some (or much) DMT-oxide already in MHRB.

DMT N-Oxide is supposed to be a yellow oil, and this is very accurate to my personal findings. A heptanesolution of only (yes, really) DMT was let to evaporate on a dish. Trapped below the heptane was a couple of "bubbles" of water, not much, but a noticeable amount if you looked very closely. Well, time went as well as the heptane, but things did not go as expected. Around these "bubbles" of water (what are they called?) a clear yellow colour formed. Everywhere else extremely white 'n pure DMT formed, but around the water the colour was really impure. After everything had evaporated I was left with a little white DMT in the regions far away from the water, but mostly this yellow stuff - what I suspect is around 70-80% DMT N-Oxide. It had a very very soft waxy appearance and I scraped it up into a little ball. Conclusion: DMT N-Oxide forms very easily when in contact with water, oxygen and heat, much the same way rust (Iron Oxide) forms. A bit interesting when one consider that the VERY same solution of DMT precipitate pure DMT when there's not water present.
Also, the N-Oxide is NOT supposed to be soluble in alkanes (such as naphtha/heptane) and this of course means that there may be a lot of the yellow stuff stuck in the MHRB when you're done extracting. Actually, I think this is one of the reasons that VERY fresh MHRB tend to yield high amounts of DMT (>2%), while bark that has been stored for a long time yield low amounts (<1%). The DMT simply oxidizes and become invisible to the heptane. Therefore I am proposing a A/B-tek with a zincpowder step when the solution is heavily acidic (pH 3). Simply mix in, (stir, let rest, stir..) for one hour and then go on to the alkaline step. You should get higher yields since the N-Oxide hands over the oxygen to the zinc forming ordinary DMT (Zn + DMT N-Oxide → ZnO + DMT). Anyone sharing my thoughts?

 

[69ron]

bit of a noob question but whats the difforence between DMT N-Oxide and just normal N N DMT? is it only visable or are the effects diffirent? Can DMT N-Oxide be harmfull in away more?
thanks =]

DMT N-Oxide is sometimes the dominant alkaloid in authentic ayahuasca based on chacruna. Chacruna sometimes has more DMT N-Oxide than DMT. In general, chacruna has more DMT N-Oxide than mimosa because it’s DMT is not as well protected from oxygen.

The effects of DMT N-Oxide last longer than DMT. At least twice as long. It’s a smoother experience. It’s more water soluble so it takes more for the same level of effects, and it isn’t as mind altering, but still very visual. Because it has less “mind fuck” and is a smoother experience, some people find it more pleasant than DMT. There are even techs out there specifically designed to make DMT N-Oxide.

DMT N-Oxide is not known to be any more toxic than DMT. Ayahuasca that contains more DMT N-Oxide than DMT lasts longer, and is generally considered more pleasant, kinder, etc.

SWIM doesn’t always like the psychedelic “mind fuck” of DMT and on those days he prefers bufotenine (5-OH-DMT) or sometimes DMT N-Oxide.

The main problem with DMT N-Oxide is that it will not form dry crystals.

You can make DMT N-Oxide by mixing DMT, alcohol, and 30% hydrogen peroxide. It forms a yellow gooey substance that will not crystallize. It’s hard to measure doses of it because it’s very sticky and needs to be mixed with some sort of filler (like calcium carbonate) so you can measure it more accurately.

 

[olderROM]

SWIM made a gram of DMT N-Oxide. She is going to do a few different solvent pulls to see what DMT N-Oxides saturation ratios are for different solvents. From what she can tell, it's very low for almost everything. =P

She also has come across some interesting happenings. In the final stage when her PH 11 water+alkaloids were all pulled into her Xylene nonpolar solvent... that was then going to be evaporated and the left over alkaloids to later used as a solute in Acetone for the FASA process.

She tried to extract additional non-xylene friendly alkaloids from the leftover PH11 water. It seems out of all the solvents, MEK was the only one that pulled something. It was a DMT Fumarate look alike compound. Neither Xylene, D-Limolene, or Naphtha pulled anything.

She thinks her recollection is correct... regarding the point in the process that this solvent pull experiment was done. She wishes she had taken notes.

Also, after all the DMT Fumarate had crystallized and was removed, a large amount of goop was left over from evaporating the 'DMT empty acetone.' It is a semi solid brownish/reddish blob.

She suspects a lot of it might be DMT N-Oxide... which doesn't appear to be soluble in acetone? She haven't gotten around to messing around with that either and she doesn't know if either are psychoactive.

With time, she will get a better understanding of what these variant compounds are... and what that means.