skinwalker
Rising Star
gibran2 said:
i'm confused your saying "free will" cant possibly exist?
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hell again
- Thread starter skinwalker
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i'm confused your saying "free will" cant possibly exist?
That’s correct.skinwalker said:
I’ve made numerous posts regarding this. Of course, it all depends on how you define “free will”, but ultimately, nothing is “free”:
Everything (including DMT entities, if indeed they exist) either conforms to laws or behaves randomly, or some combination of the two. So unless you consider conforming to laws or random behavior to be “free”, then nothing is free.
skinwalker
Rising Star
fractal enchantment said:
the internet is an amazing invention. trying using it and learn about the Pagan Gods. I fail to see how my reference was indicitive of ignorance.
Wow did i touch a raw nerve with some of you? Some of you sound like i'm taking a crack addicts crack away. I thought DMT "strips the ego". Hardly you sound defensive of your psychologically addictive drug. I was the same. How DARE someone say something bad, huh? I thought the majority of "users" were rationally minded intellectuals, yet the majority of you are sounding like seething hostile drug addicts rather than a friendly intellectual discussion of my warning.
skinwalker
Rising Star
gibran2 said:
yes i believe even the entites themselves are subservient to universal unknown laws which govern them. the number of levels to top (god? enlightenment?) is almost infinite i believe. and i'm still confused, we do have free will. You ultimately choose what to believe.
Even if everyone in this thread was a raging dmt addicted looney (ha!) then there are still 10,000 other members who haven't found it worth their time to respond.
You're thoughts are yours alone buddy. Please take them with you when you leave.
You're thoughts are yours alone buddy. Please take them with you when you leave.
My only questions for you are as follows:
1) Why are you still here? Why stick around just to argue with addicts?
2) Why not move on with your life? What exactly is the purpose of obsessing over this forum?
You've been beating this same dead horse for what seems like a very long time now. Why not just go away and leave us to our spooky fates?
You've really worn out your welcome here. I think it's time that you go.
1) Why are you still here? Why stick around just to argue with addicts?
2) Why not move on with your life? What exactly is the purpose of obsessing over this forum?
You've been beating this same dead horse for what seems like a very long time now. Why not just go away and leave us to our spooky fates?
You've really worn out your welcome here. I think it's time that you go.
skinwalker said:
"Pagan" roughly translates to "country dweller"...
So you are referring to the gods of "country dwellers"?? Later the term "pagan" became a reference to describe the many many many different indigenous/animistic tribes of all of europe and then all over the world. Sorry but saying the "pagan gods" means nothing to me. I dont need to use an internet search I studied cultural and religous anthropology at college. Again..what pagan gods are you talking about?..europe was divided into so many different tribes before Rome decided to take over and not all tribes followed the same system of beliefs etc at all..the idea that there was one single sort of tribal system of belief/spirituality in europe before the christians invaded is an overly romantic new age wicca idealism at best.
"The term "pagan" originated as the Latin paganus, a Latin word meanining 'peasant' or 'rural inhabitant'[5] as opposed to a townsman"
Paganism - Wikipedia
Gunna have to be a bit more specific if you really want to have this discussion with me..again..what "pagan" gods are you even talking about? Are you talking about Pan? The horned flute playing goat man of the forest, who was never actaully negativly portrayed in the way he is now until the church used the symbol of the goat man to signify the devil? Sounds to me like you have bought into roman catholic scare tactic propeganda..
Firstly, I totally agree with you skinwalker. I had very similar experiances, not hell per se but definetly things and encounters that were manevolent to the nth degree and beyond what we can understand or rationalize away.
I don't get it, most of you are not even trying to learn from what this guy has been through or is saying, instead you are arguing and trying to make this guy leave the forum. This forum is designed to discuss all matters, not just the positive but also the negative, thats what a forum is for. Close mindedness or getting rubbed the wrong way because you are hearing the negative side of your favourite 'drug' is just immature. Someone who as been and seen the dangerous side to DMT and is warning people should be heard.
Shamans, Buddha Masters with supernatural abilities and other saints and holy people know this is all the real deal, there are uncountable deeper dimensions that exist parallel to our own including various underworlds, manevolent beings more powerful,cunning and intelligent then ourselves exis, spirit possesion is real and yes, this can effect you on this plane when you get back. The ancients knew all this, we in the industrialised paper thin scientific paradigm have forgotten it.
Pablo Amaringo, a famous Shaman most famous for that book he wrote with all those colorful pictures and descriptions of ayahuasca journeys quit Shamanism when a 'helper spirit' turned on him journing a Aya experiance. Another person over at the Ayahuasca forums who thought he was an 'urban shaman' developed schizophrenia after continually using Aya and DMT, he started encountering entities that eventually got full access inside him. Since that time he continually had voices in his head even when he was stone cold sober.
Then there was another guy named Kevin Furnas, he had been dabbling with Aya and DMT for a long time and thought himself somewhat of a Shaman. He got so wrapped up in the whole thing he commited suicide a few years ago as the entities convinced him that if he killed himself he could join them forever.
All these chemicals open the gates of your soul and greater being to the boundless multiverse and it's entities. You are doing this in a totally uncontrolled, clumsy and dangerous manner that can have serious and damaging effects upon your spiritual self.
All serious schools of cultivation of the Spiritual self know that you are on this plane of existence for a reason and that there are no free lunches or shortcuts when it comes to spiritual development. Ask yourself why you are here instead of these liberated multidimensional realms already? Theres a reason you are in this dense realm and not in these places and paying off your debts or Karma/Sins is one of them.
What one is doing when he/she takes DMT or most any psychedelic is that you are short circuiting/hacking your spiritual architecture and entering places that are most definitely real but that you haven't truly earned through your own development in this realm. It's cheating on the 'exam' so to speak.
The truly dangerous part comes into play in that where you end up is utterly random. Shamans use various techniques and tools like rattles and icaros to traverse these dimensions and to protect themselves, even so, they are not totally protected or safe when they journey through these realms. Also, so called 'healing' shaminism is actually still dealing with manevolent entities that have been 'reigned in' so to speak under the Shaman's will:
And here most people don't even want to know of all this and will smoke and think that there 'bad trips' are just that. There is so much more to it then that and so much going on to your spiritual self when you let down your spiritual firewall.
Skinwalker and others, check out this book. I think you will find it of great interest:
I don't get it, most of you are not even trying to learn from what this guy has been through or is saying, instead you are arguing and trying to make this guy leave the forum. This forum is designed to discuss all matters, not just the positive but also the negative, thats what a forum is for. Close mindedness or getting rubbed the wrong way because you are hearing the negative side of your favourite 'drug' is just immature. Someone who as been and seen the dangerous side to DMT and is warning people should be heard.
Shamans, Buddha Masters with supernatural abilities and other saints and holy people know this is all the real deal, there are uncountable deeper dimensions that exist parallel to our own including various underworlds, manevolent beings more powerful,cunning and intelligent then ourselves exis, spirit possesion is real and yes, this can effect you on this plane when you get back. The ancients knew all this, we in the industrialised paper thin scientific paradigm have forgotten it.
Pablo Amaringo, a famous Shaman most famous for that book he wrote with all those colorful pictures and descriptions of ayahuasca journeys quit Shamanism when a 'helper spirit' turned on him journing a Aya experiance. Another person over at the Ayahuasca forums who thought he was an 'urban shaman' developed schizophrenia after continually using Aya and DMT, he started encountering entities that eventually got full access inside him. Since that time he continually had voices in his head even when he was stone cold sober.
Then there was another guy named Kevin Furnas, he had been dabbling with Aya and DMT for a long time and thought himself somewhat of a Shaman. He got so wrapped up in the whole thing he commited suicide a few years ago as the entities convinced him that if he killed himself he could join them forever.
All these chemicals open the gates of your soul and greater being to the boundless multiverse and it's entities. You are doing this in a totally uncontrolled, clumsy and dangerous manner that can have serious and damaging effects upon your spiritual self.
All serious schools of cultivation of the Spiritual self know that you are on this plane of existence for a reason and that there are no free lunches or shortcuts when it comes to spiritual development. Ask yourself why you are here instead of these liberated multidimensional realms already? Theres a reason you are in this dense realm and not in these places and paying off your debts or Karma/Sins is one of them.
What one is doing when he/she takes DMT or most any psychedelic is that you are short circuiting/hacking your spiritual architecture and entering places that are most definitely real but that you haven't truly earned through your own development in this realm. It's cheating on the 'exam' so to speak.
The truly dangerous part comes into play in that where you end up is utterly random. Shamans use various techniques and tools like rattles and icaros to traverse these dimensions and to protect themselves, even so, they are not totally protected or safe when they journey through these realms. Also, so called 'healing' shaminism is actually still dealing with manevolent entities that have been 'reigned in' so to speak under the Shaman's will:
Self-Control | Singing to the Plants
There is a theme woven through the shamanisms of the Upper Amazon — that human beings in general, and shamans in particular, have powerful urges to harm other humans. The difference between a healer and a sorcerer is that the former is able to bring these urges under control, while the latter...
www.singingtotheplants.com
And here most people don't even want to know of all this and will smoke and think that there 'bad trips' are just that. There is so much more to it then that and so much going on to your spiritual self when you let down your spiritual firewall.
Skinwalker and others, check out this book. I think you will find it of great interest:
Oh well excuse me for wanting more than vague and ambiguous use of terms thrown around to essentially dumb down the understanding a vast, complex and diverse group of indigenous peoples. It is called not stereotyping for one. Why dont we all jump on the bandwagon and muddy up our historical and anthropological understanding just a bit more?? We can all be mindless dumbasses who think everything before the church is just "pagan" and therefore interchangable.
I have nothing against the idea of spirits or entities that have less than honerable intentions towards others. I do take issue with people making claims about something they dont fully understand in order to prove some point. What came out in this thread sounded more like regurgitated scare tactics.
I have nothing against the idea of spirits or entities that have less than honerable intentions towards others. I do take issue with people making claims about something they dont fully understand in order to prove some point. What came out in this thread sounded more like regurgitated scare tactics.
skinwalker
Rising Star
litrium
thank you so much for posting that. you have embodied what i am trying to convey much more eloquently that i am able to. Again thank you and I cant wait to download and read your link.
I'll bow out now and not continue this debate further. (which i never even ment as a debate, more of a warning). I dable in the paranormal and have spend quite a considerable amount of my time and money researching and experiencing the paranormal. My romance with DMT began as I discovered an immediate connection to the other side... no waiting, no more equiptment to buy or modify, no more witnesses to interview, immediate raw unpredictable and in my opinion convincing contact.. Over the past year and half what i found was a multiverse of hyper intelligent entities with confusing intentions. Sorry for all the drama and I'll step out of this topic now.
thank you so much for posting that. you have embodied what i am trying to convey much more eloquently that i am able to. Again thank you and I cant wait to download and read your link.
I'll bow out now and not continue this debate further. (which i never even ment as a debate, more of a warning). I dable in the paranormal and have spend quite a considerable amount of my time and money researching and experiencing the paranormal. My romance with DMT began as I discovered an immediate connection to the other side... no waiting, no more equiptment to buy or modify, no more witnesses to interview, immediate raw unpredictable and in my opinion convincing contact.. Over the past year and half what i found was a multiverse of hyper intelligent entities with confusing intentions. Sorry for all the drama and I'll step out of this topic now.
unclesyd
Rising Star
I would disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. There are numerous paths one can take to end up in the same place. I dont think species(cannabis, mushrooms, peyote, ayahuasca species, etc.) Would exist if they were not meant for our use. These are powerful plants for sure, and for some may be wise to avoid. But others such as myself can find/get what we need with the help of such things.
"What one is doing when he/she takes DMT or most any psychedelic is that you are short circuiting/hacking your spiritual architecture and entering places that are most definitely real but that you haven't truly earned through your own development in this realm. It's cheating on the 'exam' so to speak. "
What a load of crap. Why are they here then? Why are both tryptamines and beta carbolines found literally throughout the environment? I guess you believe that eating food is cheating as well right? You think nature f---ed up or something by making these things so easily available to us literally growing on trees? Before you get all high and mighty on your horse there telling the rest of us what we have or have not "truly earned" think a little deeper about the situation for a second. Animals even ingest psychoactive plants..jaguars eat caapi..there is nothing morally right or overly-admirable about not ingesting neurotransmitters from the environment. Again it is like denying food becasue you feel like the chemical shift induced in the body is something you have not "truly earned".
Why do you think humans evolved such complex brains? There is so much evidence that points to high ammounts of beta carbolines, steroids, neurotransmitters etc found in the ancestrial diet of tropical fruits and leafy green plants being responciple for the development of our current brain..
You might as well be a breatharian while you are at it.
"Ask yourself why you are here instead of these liberated multidimensional realms already? Theres a reason you are in this dense realm and not in these places and paying off your debts or Karma/Sins is one of them."
If it is not in my karma to exist multidimensionally, then why do I?
What a load of crap. Why are they here then? Why are both tryptamines and beta carbolines found literally throughout the environment? I guess you believe that eating food is cheating as well right? You think nature f---ed up or something by making these things so easily available to us literally growing on trees? Before you get all high and mighty on your horse there telling the rest of us what we have or have not "truly earned" think a little deeper about the situation for a second. Animals even ingest psychoactive plants..jaguars eat caapi..there is nothing morally right or overly-admirable about not ingesting neurotransmitters from the environment. Again it is like denying food becasue you feel like the chemical shift induced in the body is something you have not "truly earned".
Why do you think humans evolved such complex brains? There is so much evidence that points to high ammounts of beta carbolines, steroids, neurotransmitters etc found in the ancestrial diet of tropical fruits and leafy green plants being responciple for the development of our current brain..
You might as well be a breatharian while you are at it.
"Ask yourself why you are here instead of these liberated multidimensional realms already? Theres a reason you are in this dense realm and not in these places and paying off your debts or Karma/Sins is one of them."
If it is not in my karma to exist multidimensionally, then why do I?
I understand your reasoning, however, open mindedness and discussions hardly go hand in hand.
What is there to discuss if you are truly open minded? all you can say is i agree or i disagree.
Then what is a "Warning" ?
When one warns he/she is basically just doing 2 things, feeling fear and trying to spread it amongst others.
When one tries to convince others to accumulate that fear by offering a static model of truth, he or she becomes a danger to be warned for. Thus continuing the cycle.
Skinwalker I know for a fact that a lot of people have experienced very similar confrontations maybe even worse then you have, and some fall some rise.
Instead of pulling others with you while screaming for help you might consider to grab hold on the ropes people have been throwing down for you.
Once in a journey i was turned into Jezus lol, i had my arms behind my back and it felt literally as if i was hanging on a cross for days already.
Such physical pain i had never felt in my life before let alone in a trip, but i wasn't afraid you see, and the evil entity that did this to me was very frustrated and asked my why it didnt work on me.
Simple i said, if im your Jesus to forever folter in eternity, then im also God's child, and i know i will be saved. And i was.
Know don't get me wrong it's not about religion here, it is about creating your own dreams to escape the nightmares of others!
SpartanII
Rising Star
My heart goes out to you, skinwalker, I'm sorry you had to endure such suffering during your hellish experience, whether it was subjective or objective. I hope to never have to go through something like that.
I haven't made up my mind what exactly goes on when one ingests this molecule, but I would suggest caution- this is, after all, mostly unexplored territory.
My hesitation stems partly from the fact that I believe I may have been possessed several times throughout my life. I felt the presence of something very, very dark inside of me. I remember hearing loud, urgent whispers in my mind and getting the impression this presence was many, and that it/they was laughing or enjoying my fear and suffering.
I'm sure if you keep your attitude in line with the Attitude of this community, and that if you can suspend judgment and keep your ego in check, you will find help and acceptance here.
As for the other posters who felt the need to fight ego with ego in this thread, maybe some meditation/reflection would be in order?:?
I haven't made up my mind what exactly goes on when one ingests this molecule, but I would suggest caution- this is, after all, mostly unexplored territory.
My hesitation stems partly from the fact that I believe I may have been possessed several times throughout my life. I felt the presence of something very, very dark inside of me. I remember hearing loud, urgent whispers in my mind and getting the impression this presence was many, and that it/they was laughing or enjoying my fear and suffering.
I'm sure if you keep your attitude in line with the Attitude of this community, and that if you can suspend judgment and keep your ego in check, you will find help and acceptance here.
As for the other posters who felt the need to fight ego with ego in this thread, maybe some meditation/reflection would be in order?:?
How can you be so sure it´s all real? Some people believe the easterbunny is real, or santaclause.
Some people even believe in creationism. And they all believe with the same passionate conviction as you, or more even, like when they commit acts of terror in the name of what they believe.
In the horn of africa people murder their own childeren in the solid belief that they are witches. If you want to kill your own childeren because you think they´re witches, you muct be absolutely convinced that the whole witch-thing is real. You don´t do such a thing if you even have a shred of doubt.
Some people here have first-hand experience with false beliefs themselves. How many tripreports have i read, where someone stated:'i was absolutely convinced that i was going to die', only to experience the relief afterwards that they wheren´t, and even that they where still in perfect good health, just like they´d always been.
So the fact that you realy believe all of this soul-raping stuff and that you belief it very, very, very much and with great conviction, deep passion and absolute zeal, is no argument to convince anybody here that these convictions you hold have any value for anyone else than you.
So what´s the deal? Do you think you can buy your way out of hell by saving as many of our souls as you can or something?
Some people even believe in creationism. And they all believe with the same passionate conviction as you, or more even, like when they commit acts of terror in the name of what they believe.
In the horn of africa people murder their own childeren in the solid belief that they are witches. If you want to kill your own childeren because you think they´re witches, you muct be absolutely convinced that the whole witch-thing is real. You don´t do such a thing if you even have a shred of doubt.
Some people here have first-hand experience with false beliefs themselves. How many tripreports have i read, where someone stated:'i was absolutely convinced that i was going to die', only to experience the relief afterwards that they wheren´t, and even that they where still in perfect good health, just like they´d always been.
So the fact that you realy believe all of this soul-raping stuff and that you belief it very, very, very much and with great conviction, deep passion and absolute zeal, is no argument to convince anybody here that these convictions you hold have any value for anyone else than you.
So what´s the deal? Do you think you can buy your way out of hell by saving as many of our souls as you can or something?
Dream2Awaken
Rising Star
"yes its the familiarity that bothers me still. Yes oddly i agree with you regarding DMT making me a better person, HOWEVER i full heartedly believe that you are dealing with the same evil influencial forces that cause men to commite murder, rape, and suicide. I have no doubt of this, you are opening up your soul for anything to jump in and take the controls of you. Your also opening yourself up to the pagen gods... which apparently are more real than i could have previous imagined. DMT has taught me alot, but I believe only because of who i am and my ability NOT to be influenced and my free will of thought. There is a true source on the other side and we must stay focused on that source and never stray from our path in life. You do NOT need DMT or any mind altering substances to follow this path, cheating/hacking/circumventing the system via DMT and other ethnogens will have immediate negative reprecussions. Adam and Eve and the apple... want to know what God knows? Eat this fruit? ... i think we all know the consequences of that decision. We as low level humans are ment to follow a course in life, to not question it nor stray from it. I hope my story causes some of you to think twice before picking up the pipe. This is not a means of communicating with God or Angels, rather its the other side with will manipulate and use you and honestly , pitifully, you will all (myself included) be too entralled to realized it. The lies and deciet are beyond our human capability to recognize and to defend ourselves against. The ONLY thing DMT has convinced me of is of a unquestionable existance of life beyond death and beyond our 5 senses. The things i've been told while in DMT world are all coming true to date, its unimaginable the things that have happened to me that were predicted and told to me last year..(they are all true now). I also have been too fearful/smart to view the other side again. We simply are not prepared to nor created to experience this reality at this time in our enlightenment PERIOD. Disagree i'm sure and defend your drug, but I speak the truth, use it to open your eyes and begin living life without asking the questions, just accept and follow the path God (or whomever...) has laid before you. I again hope my story positive influences others to break the cycle."
I chose to quote this because it was one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read on here.
There was a lot of good advice given to you, and this is your response?
You say nobody here cares, but why would someone take time out of their day. To HELP someone they don't know, if they don't care?
You became angry and flustered at anybody who didn't fully agree with you. This sounds to me like a man that doesn't even consider the possibility that he is wrong.
Normally I don't agree with members ganging up on this forum, but it was justified. You refused to listen when a few told you, so more had to try to get the message across. That and your posts often contained immature attacks on some very intelligent individuals. Just begging for reaction.
You have clearly lied numerous times in your posts, and switch your ideas constantly. How is one supposed to believe you? When you don't know what you believe.
Frankly I found your posts to be quite unintelligent. A smart individual always accepts the possibility that he is wrong. Especially when dealing with something this complex.
You say you've done over 100 sessions. Yet you seem to have missed out on very basic concepts that DMT teaches you.
You clearly didn't get into DMT for the right reasons, and I doubt your intentions changed.
I'm sorry that you had such a terrible experience.
I am more sorry however that you have written DMT off and will discontinue use. Now you will never have the opportunity to find out just how wrong you are.
If you do return. Do it respectfully. You have shown a vast amount of disrespect towards other members and it was a shame to read.
I chose to quote this because it was one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read on here.
There was a lot of good advice given to you, and this is your response?
You say nobody here cares, but why would someone take time out of their day. To HELP someone they don't know, if they don't care?
You became angry and flustered at anybody who didn't fully agree with you. This sounds to me like a man that doesn't even consider the possibility that he is wrong.
Normally I don't agree with members ganging up on this forum, but it was justified. You refused to listen when a few told you, so more had to try to get the message across. That and your posts often contained immature attacks on some very intelligent individuals. Just begging for reaction.
You have clearly lied numerous times in your posts, and switch your ideas constantly. How is one supposed to believe you? When you don't know what you believe.
Frankly I found your posts to be quite unintelligent. A smart individual always accepts the possibility that he is wrong. Especially when dealing with something this complex.
You say you've done over 100 sessions. Yet you seem to have missed out on very basic concepts that DMT teaches you.
You clearly didn't get into DMT for the right reasons, and I doubt your intentions changed.
I'm sorry that you had such a terrible experience.
I am more sorry however that you have written DMT off and will discontinue use. Now you will never have the opportunity to find out just how wrong you are.
If you do return. Do it respectfully. You have shown a vast amount of disrespect towards other members and it was a shame to read.
Ah yes... Original sin, inherent alien contact experience,
the automatic human lonliness attribute--;
"manevolent beings more powerful"...
danger lingers near.
.... I like that. man-evolent.
.... meanwhile loonies sing 'row row row your boat' in the corner.
That’s correct. Either everything is an accident or it's all predetermined.
the only luck would be either 100% luck or no luck at all. There is no inbetween.
otherwise what's fate?
Fate said to luck, Knock knock. Then now, what would luck know?
would luck know what happened?
And Then..
the automatic human lonliness attribute--;
that's Assuming that I was put here before my actions occurred....
"manevolent beings more powerful"...
danger lingers near.
.... I like that. man-evolent.
.... meanwhile loonies sing 'row row row your boat' in the corner.
That’s correct. Either everything is an accident or it's all predetermined.
the only luck would be either 100% luck or no luck at all. There is no inbetween.
otherwise what's fate?
Fate said to luck, Knock knock. Then now, what would luck know?
would luck know what happened?
And Then..
