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Hello every body

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Ghikal

Rising Star
Hello everyone !

I'm going to introduce myself to the family, but before I want to apology : My English isn't perfect.
I'm studying biochemistry hoping that I will have a PhD, maybe in bioinformatics and drug design. I'm totally and desperately passionate about everything that can shift our usual consciousness, including drugs and meditation. I used to abuse codeine and DXM, and before GHB and empathogens. Thanks to vipassana meditation (did 4 10 days retreats) and some psychotherapy (EMDR), I'm far more healthy right now and I want to explore the first drugs that created all this interest in shifting consciousness : Psychedelics. I'm really frightened by psychedelics because of a lack of confidence to myself. But I'm working on it actually and want to confront my fears.

I'm really interested by the interaction of a meditative practice and psychedelic use. This is a controversial topic, but according to Myron Stolaroff, the use of low doses entheogens with meditation can be an accelerator of personal development. I want to implement that on my life.

On the topic of DMT and IMAO, I completed my first harmala extraction this summer and I felt in love with these compounds. Right now I want to try to reduce harmaline in THH using zinc powder. Will try it really soon ! In order to make the perfect changa (DMT-THH-harmine-muellin-caapi-leaves) ever, because I want the best to be introduced in the changa world ! :D
I have also a question ^^ That's such a fucking nightmare to filtering the sludge from goodies in a Syrian rue extraction. That's why I was thinking of an extraction using naphta or toluene like the DMT extraction.

1. Extracting the harmala salts using an acidic solution (water + vinegar).
2. NO FILTERING
3. Basifing the aqueous solution using NaOH or sodium carbonate.
4. Pull the freebase alkaloids from the basified aqueous solution with naphta or xylene.
5. Shake well an separate the two layers.
6. Freezing the naphta or xylene to precipitate harmalas ; or if it don't work like DMT, evaporate the naphta.

In this way, all the vegetal materials will be left on the basified aqueous solution (3).

Did somebody succeed to do that already?
 
Welcome to the Nexus :)

Good luck with your studies. Please do share your knowledge here in the Nexus as you learn things :thumb_up:

Harmalas are very poorly soluble in naphtha/xylene, you won't have success using those solvents. Maybe something like DCM or Chloroform but those have their own safety/risks profile, availability in different places, etc. If you work with them be sure to be in a well ventilated area ideally with flow hood, etc..

Personally I like a lot the normal salt vinegar and sodium (bi)carb harmala extraction, you can do it with stuff you find in your kitchen, I like that :D Also with experience the filtering isnt so bad, there are tricks you can try to help with it, for example:

- Use vacuum filtering which can be improvised with plastic funnel/coffee filter/tubes/hard plastic container/vacuum cleaner
- Use a propper vacuum filtering system buchner/flask/filter/vac pump for less than 100 bucks like for example this
- Use whole seeds instead of grinding them (conflicting reports on how this affects the yield.. For me yields were reduced)
- Decant as much as possible instead of filtering everything
- Filter the rue tea (and the redissolved harmalas in acidic solution later too) as much as possible with a lot of cotton filter stuffed in a funnel before precipitating the alkaloids.
- The first precipitation make it a Manske , being sure to add not more than 100g salt per 1l solution, and let it cool down very slowly from boiling (for example having the container with the recently boiled harmala solution in a hot water bath and turning off heat source and letting it all cool).. This will make for purer precipitation.
- Alternating between manske precipitation and base precip seems like the most cost/time-effective way instead of doing successive precip in the same method.
- Use multiple funnels/filters to make it faster.
- Last but not least, patience, and if not using vacuum, let it happen while you are doing something else and can forget about it for a while.
 
Good luck with your studies. Please do share your knowledge here in the Nexus as you learn things

Will do it for sure if I can, I love rambling about drugs and pharmacology, and this forum seems fuelled by cleaver people. I want to thank you for your work here endlessness, I've already benefited from it. And I love your scientific mindset in spite (If I remember well) of no scientific background.

Harmalas are very poorly soluble in naphtha/xylene, you won't have success using those solvents. Maybe something like DCM or Chloroform but those have their own safety/risks profile, availability in different places, etc. If you work with them be sure to be in a well ventilated area ideally with flow hood, etc..

Ok that the answer I was seeking ! :) My flat is in town so it isn't really practical, solvents odour aren't neighbour friendly ^^. Maybe DCM... Will think about it !

Thanks a lot for all the tips !!! I've already worked on whole seed with sufficient yields. Will try to use NaOH instead of sodium carbonate for the first rounds of basification. Holy shit your link with the filtration kit, I want that for Christmas !

And I will report my results for the Harmaline reduction using Zn. Too bad I haven't enough harmaline yet to lauch it, but It will be made in a matter of weeks !

Cheers :)
 
I used NaOH for my basifying steps and it worked very well precipitating everything out.

Welcome to the nexus by the way, good luck with the studies and anything that you can contribute to the community via them studies.


Peace :thumb_up:
 
Good to have another harmala chemistry enthusiast here. Definitely read through that thread downwardsfromzero mentioned and join in the investigations..

I dont have a good filter setup either but got good yields using whole seeds and doing 3x30 minute pressure cooks in acidified water (adding vinegar to each boil). Quick and easy to filter through muslin. Any sludge will settle overnight and the liquid can e decanted. After basification, lots more plant stuff can be washed out, then manske, base, manske, base etc.
 
Ghikal said:
That's such a ****ing nightmare to filtering the sludge from goodies in a Syrian rue extraction.
Endlessness mentions using whole seeds with reduced yield which is fine to avoid the sludge problem and the seeds are so cheap in any case. My version of this is to deep freeze them then just crack them up a bit to expose a greater surface area.

Good luck with meditation+psychedelics :thumb_up:
My path entirely :)
 
I used NaOH for my basifying steps and it worked very well precipitating everything out.

Welcome to the nexus by the way, good luck with the studies and anything that you can contribute to the community via them studies.

Peace Thumbs up

On the question of NaOH/harmalas and heating, there are strong conditions to put a chemical onto, I was afraid that harmine, harmaline or THH could be destroyed by hydrolysis. Thanks for the info and to welcome me ! :)

I'm sure you must have seen the big thread going on right now: Harmine, harmaline and THH from Syrian Rue. Verification and finetuning of the VDS-protocols

Hoo no I didn't know this topic, will read it with pleasure as soon as possible thanks a lot !

I dont have a good filter setup either but got good yields using whole seeds and doing 3x30 minute pressure cooks in acidified water (adding vinegar to each boil). Quick and easy to filter through muslin. Any sludge will settle overnight and the liquid can e decanted. After basification, lots more plant stuff can be washed out, then manske, base, manske, base etc.

I do it also with a pressure cooks. Compared to 3x3h boiling in acid water, It seems 3x30min with a pressure cook work just as well as just boiling for longer periods of time Great method. But I didn't tried 3x30min just boiling to compare/conclude yet! Muslin is like coton ? If it is that, I use it but I'm lazy and always trying to find more efficient ways with less effort haha ! :)

My version of this is to deep freeze them then just crack them up a bit to expose a greater surface area.

How that can be a good idea I don't do that! Will try it next time ! Combined with an efficient filtering technique that can be an interesting middle way between grindered and whole seeds !

Good luck with meditation+psychedelics

Yeah I will create a post in this topic as soon as I can create topics I think ! Lot to say, mostly unknown and controversial territory, all I love hehe !

Thanks again all for your warm welcomes ! Peace :)
 
Ghikal, would Buddha use words with **** in them? 😉

As for the filtering problems, Endlessness has already given you all the tricks I know. But let me emphasize the importance of time here: what took me about 2,5 hours (!) of filtering before, now takes about 30 minutes. The magic words are settling and decantation. It really is the sludge in the bottom of your container that blocks your filters. Let your container stand for 24-36 hours and then siphon off your top layer without disturbing the bottom. The supernatant will run through a coffee filter like nothing. If you're worried about loss of alkaloids in the bottom layer, just add some plain water and let it settle again.

Welcome and please join the research. The VDS-protocol thread has become quite long by now, but to make a long thread short: the VDS protocols (and more specifically, the experimental details in chapter 2) seem to be correct. We're awaiting the LC/MS results of some samples from the thread. If they confirm the separation and conversion techniques, I will edit the OP to contain all the wisdom gathered in the thread.
 
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