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How do i milk bufo alvarius?

Migrated topic.
nen888 said:
..in California it's an endangered species, in New Mexico it's threatened..
and perhaps they could kind of do with their defence venom while in the wild..

an endangered animal is exploited, while for over 20 years strains of 5meo-DMT Phalaris have been known and cloned..

i think what the op is encouraging is offensive, and the op's friend 'Dr O.' equally so for the exploitation of disappearing animals, for personal gain, creating international markets when easily grown plant sources could have been developed..

i'm just disgusted..
.

it is in the IUCN 2013 Red List of Threatened Species
!
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AMEN
 
nen888 said:
..in California it's an endangered species, in New Mexico it's threatened..
and perhaps they could kind of do with their defence venom while in the wild..

an endangered animal is exploited, while for over 20 years strains of 5meo-DMT Phalaris have been known and cloned..

i think what the op is encouraging is offensive, and the op's friend 'Dr O.' equally so for the exploitation of disappearing animals, for personal gain, creating international markets when easily grown plant sources could have been developed..

i'm just disgusted..
.

it is in the IUCN 2013 Red List of Threatened Species
!
Click to expand...

When i lived on the gulf coast of Florida I would hear of invasive toxic toads, however I'm fairly certain these were Bufo marinus toads...

The strange thing is smoking toad venom was popular in Florida... were they buying these toads as pets? Or were there actually bufo alvarius toads wild in Florida?

These toads are sold as pets, Home this link is an example, I'm not sure how I feel about this...I mean, a skilled reptile enthusiast would be a fine owner, however some young person looking to get high may not provide the best care for these creatures, and the toad's well-being is not my only concern, people may actually end up hurting themselves with the compounds contained in the toad venom...

(with an unknown but large amount, smoked) I observed the subject pass very quickly into an almost coma-like state. Within seconds his face became purple and his breathing stopped. I pounded his chest, and breathed for him, and he seemed to emerge in consciousness, with the comment, "This is absolute ecstasy." He stopped breathing a second time, and both heart massage and mouth-to-mouth resuscitation was provided. Again, he recovered and managed to maintain a continuing consciousness and achieve a partial recovery. In the awake condition he was increasingly lucid, but on closing his eyes he became possessed with, what he called, "The energy of terror." He could not sleep, as upon closing his eyes he felt threatened in a way he could not tolerate. Three days later, medical intervention with antipsychotic medication was provided, which allowed the recovery of an acceptable behavior pattern in a few more days. -shulgin;TIHKAL
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5-meo-DMT can be some serious stuff, not to mention the other compounds present in toad venom.

It's probably better that these toads are rare, and honestly, I feel they should be left alone.

However:
Plant sources for 5-meo-DMT are vastly unsatisfactory in the quantity which they contain...

Virola Theiodora and virola resins are probably the best bet as far as plant sources go...

Delosperma cooperi is a common ornamental plant commonly available for sale, I'm hoping that this plant will prove to be viable source for 5-meo-DMT...

Though I feel chemistry may be the answer, these compounds can be synthesized, taking living sources out of the picture.

-eg
 
If you have a pet, might as well be a toad. Or in my case 2. Have had over a year now. Cool pets, never milked and probably never will. They did hibernate for a few months as well. Just make sure you have plenty of space for them!!!!
But I am also a biologist so my skill with animals may be above others.

Not sure if this came up before, awesome interview threw vice. Google vice 5-meo dmt, and I am sure it will come up. Shows actual medicine man "pressing" a toad...
 
These toads are not rare at all, nor are they in any apparent danger. Taking endangered/threatened lists at face value seems rather naïve. A map is not the territory. I have been studying these toads in their natural habitat for well over a decade. There is one posted up by each porchlight now as I'm typing. This time of year we are literally tripping over them trying to walk through the yard at night. Populations are most dense in agricultural areas. Good luck with finding toads where humans are not providing water and light (for easy bug hunting).

I generally don't like the idea of Bufo toads being kept in captivity because not many people would have the level of dedication, resources and skills necessary to give them a decent life. But as others have said, the toads typically don't mind being milked. Their instinct is to give their “gift” and 'teach a lesson'. Most dogs will not bother them again after one toad experience, however I've heard some actually develop a craving for it.
 
Biawak said:
These toads are not rare at all, nor are they in any apparent danger. Taking endangered/threatened lists at face value seems rather naïve. A map is not the territory. I have been studying these toads in their natural habitat for well over a decade. There is one posted up by each porchlight now as I'm typing. This time of year we are literally tripping over them trying to walk through the yard at night. Populations are most dense in agricultural areas. Good luck with finding toads where humans are not providing water and light (for easy bug hunting).

I generally don't like the idea of Bufo toads being kept in captivity because not many people would have the level of dedication, resources and skills necessary to give them a decent life. But as others have said, the toads typically don't mind being milked. Their instinct is to give their “gift” and 'teach a lesson'. Most dogs will not bother them again after one toad experience, however I've heard some actually develop a craving for it.
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not being on the ground in the US myself, i'd ask whether this is in one area as opposed to the original range? it can be hard, some environmental management types tell me, to get even things which are in danger on official endangered lists so it's hard to take that lightly..perhaps they are more common in captivity and subsequent escape..i'd take more reassurance from that if there wasn't growing international interest (a movie is about to be made, really), a growing market and no properly developed and circulated 5meo plant yet..and come from a place where for years, optimists who talked of the plants 'sharing' said 'theres plenty of that tree', and now they warn it's in trouble..sacred ceremony honouring is one thing, fashions and markets are another..when the entheogen world crosses into animals, my all bells automatically ring..but they are indeed amazing creatures...whatever will be, i pray for the frogs..
 
^^^

They're not common in captivity. Distribution shifts over time for various reasons but the Sonoran Desert is their original and current range, afaik. Appropriate soil and a good amount of rain in the monsoon season is what they need, but they have a preference for areas that humans irrigate.

I had not heard about a movie. That's interesting and could be the sort of thing that leads to toads being abused.
 
What do you guys know about Dr. Octavio Rettig?

I have heard mixed things, and find it hard to find objective information on the guy, most people are either bad-mouthing or praising the guy, and are leaving very little room for one to view the situation in any sort of objective manner.

This guy uses bufo toad venom to treat addiction, he claims to have been trained by a shaman named "Don poncho", and holds toad ceremonies in the toads native habitat of the Sonoran Desert, this is about all I know, there are YouTube videos, but I have not viewed any of them yet.

-eg
 
I've heard some questionable things regarding Rettig from associates of his, nothing I want to repeat here without confirmation, but disturbing allegations nonetheless. Although these could be made up by detractors with an agenda.

There is at least one other guy using toad venom, Gerry Sandoval, who IS responsible with it,and who does not place himself and his ego in front of it.
 
null24 said:
I've heard some questionable things regarding Rettig from associates of his, nothing I want to repeat here without confirmation, but disturbing allegations nonetheless. Although these could be made up by detractors with an agenda.

There is at least one other guy using toad venom, Gerry Sandoval, who IS responsible with it,and who does not place himself and his ego in front of it.
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Seems like this guy is just a murky character who inspires these sort of "maybe he is maybe he isn't" type of responses...I would love to meet him, and judge for myself.

Thank you for the recomendation, I'll look into Gerry Sandoval.

-eg
 
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