How do we define "Ego Death"?

[indydude19]

Hello all, I was browsing through threads and i always see mentions of ego death, but i have not found any discussion, at least as the purpose of a thread, about what exactly ego death is, how it is achieved, and other details of it. (If i missed the thread, sorry, feel free to move it mods).

The purpose of this thread is to allow for open discussion of what constitutes an ego death, not what impacts it has on a person, but what it truly is as i feel this is something to be discussed further. I would LOVE to read everyone's ideas on this subject.

As i read members' interpretations of ego death, it occurs to me that there is some variability in what people think of it, including myself.

I'll start by stating that i feel many take ego death too lightly. It seems to me that many have glimpsed ego death, have seen the path, but have not walked it.

I believe entheogens, deep meditation and other methods can be used to see the path to ego death. They give us that glimpse that we are a mere tiny cog in a grander mechanism, and that we are also a significant part of that mechanism despite our size, importance, or existence as a living being. They break the barriers that keep us isolated from the world and allow our ego to dissociate into that world.

This is not ego death in my eyes however. A Famous matrix quote" There is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path." I feel the previously stated existence is "knowing the path", but many fail to walk it.

The ego does not dissociate by itself though, just as energy must be put into making a bond, energy must also be used to break it. To me ego death is complete when one has thrown themselves into the world, and completely merged with life, living to the fullest. living to the best of one's potential every single second, and to not escape reality.

To me a true measure of ego death is to discard the self completely and sacrifice one's life, abilities, and potential for the grander purpose of all others.

If one has completed ego death, they use no drugs to alter the mind, they use no vices to cope with reality, and they truly love unconditionally, from caring for a rock, to a sunflower, to an ant or aunt. One is not uncontent or content, they simply exist as is and follow the course of their own nature and accept it, hopefully with optimism rather than pessimism.

I have not completed ego death, but i try to walk the path as best i can. I feel very very few have completed ego death, anywhere, but those who have can truly maximize their impact in the world, their cog's part in the grand mechanism.

I feel the vast majority of people claiming ego death, have simply seen the path, but not walked it based on peoples' descriptions, they stop at the idea of ego death, not the actualization of it.

These are just some of my opening thoughts on the matter, i have more and will probably add on at some point soon, but again i would love to read what others think on this matter.

Peace and light :d

Thanks in advance for you're input

 

[zhoro]

Simple definition of ego - the notion of the existence of an entity separate from everything else, something with defines boundaries. The end of this notion is ego death.

The definition is not the experience.

 

[indydude19]

Simple definition of ego - the notion of the existence of an entity separate from everything else, something with defines boundaries. The end of this notion is ego death.

The definition is not the experience.

I would say that psychedelic experience lets us see through or over those boundaries but they still need work to knock down after seeing past. It's like a drug addict saying they need to quit using, just because you know you need to quit doesn't mean you have, there's still the process of quitting to be done.

I don't think that simply realizing you have that notion kills your ego, actual work must be put into your life to truly end this notion.

That's just my interpretation though, what are you're thoughts on it?

 

[zhoro]

Agreed. Temporary glimpses or subsidence of ego are not ego death but are useful indicators of potential. Work is necessary, however the idea that work is necessary and there is a distance to be traveled are still ego-based notions, implying separate agency. The desire to reach the goal and the work towards it are both gifts that come about of their own accord, there is no choice. The notion "I do this" is ego.

 

[indydude19]

Work is necessary, however the idea that work is necessary and there is a distance to be traveled are still ego-based notions, implying separate agency. The desire to reach the goal and the work towards it are both gifts that come about of their own accord, there is no choice. The notion "I do this" is ego.

I agree, which is why i think that only at the actualization of one's potential is the completion, because at that point you go from "I do this" to "I am this". and when one is finished doing and simply is, is when ego death has completed...IMO

Its not something you do, destroying your ego, but something you become, ego-less.

*EDIT: I feel that last statement is a little contradictory to what i said earlier, I Mean when you complete ego death you become ego-less, and that during the process, you are not working to kill your ego, but working to free yourself of it, if that's a little clearer.

 

[zhoro]

Language will always be subject to incompleteness, apparent contradictions and paradoxes

The sages say that upon completion of ego death one realizes that ego never existed in the first place.

 

[indydude19]

Language will always be subject to incompleteness, apparent contradictions and paradoxes

The sages say that upon completion of ego death one realizes that ego never existed in the first place.

I like that a lot haha. I interpret that as the ego is no more real than language or math. The ego has it uses in society like math or language, but it seems some would be much happier without it

I think that is one i'll look at every few years and see if or how the meaning changes to me :thumb_up:

 

[zhoro]

Language will always be subject to incompleteness, apparent contradictions and paradoxes

The sages say that upon completion of ego death one realizes that ego never existed in the first place.

I like that a lot haha. I interpret that as the ego is no more real than language or math. The ego has it uses in society like math or language, but it seems some would be much happier without it

I think that is one i'll look at every few years and see if or how the meaning changes to me :thumb_up:

It's inevitable, my friend, that you will do exactly as you will do! May it be as pleasant for you as possible.

 

[indydude19]

It's inevitable, my friend, that you will do exactly as you will do! May it be as pleasant for you as possible.

To you as well! Thanks for entertaining this discussion

 

[Doodazzle]

I believe that ego death is simply the powerful experience of the annihilation of self.


This talk of living an ego-less life....I tried it myself, seen others go down that path too. Never seen it play out too well. I've chilled with monks, shamans and gurus. Tibetan monks even, well known gurus and obscure ones as well. They had egos.

Living with less of an ego is still a major concern in my life. Emphasis on the personal pronoun because....well, come on. I am a distinct entity and have an ego. That's very different from being ego-centric. I'll return to the source and cease to be, perhaps, at some point. I'll also have many more peak experiences, in which I cease to be, utterly. Only to return, to laugh and play with my fellow discreet entities again. Mere temporary points of reference, perhaps, but you're all groovy in my book.

And maybe I'm missing something here, I dunno. I'm not saying that what you guys are on about is uncool. Ego death *seems to me* to be a temporary (or timeless, really) mystical event. The ego-less path in life, a different thing entirely. And possibly, a blind path, a dead end. keep playing with it though, learn your own lessons, draw your own conclusions.


Forever in love, with all I see

 

[Infectedstyle]

Short words perhaps,but..

I definitely resonate with killing my ego. true ego death. to see through the veil once and upon return, i envision and still work on shaping the ego in order for my ego to be less of an influence and hinder in alleviating suffering for both myself and for mankind. (I believe my ego makes bad descisions time and time again)

It is even a saddening and emotional thought to consider killing my ego. I wonder if it is akin to true death of the soul. And marvel at the thought of the emotional turmoil that preceeds that moment of ego death.

 

[starway6]

Isnt ego death an act of letting go of the [self]?
To become selfless?
Ive found egos dont give in very easily ..in fact they rebel against and efort to change them...
I guess its an automatic human response for survival..
I find that moderate trips actually reinforce the ego by making it rebell..
Yes some people can become more of a pain in the A ..after a trip ..than befor the trip..
But with heaver trips the ego can be put in check and experiance atleast temporary death....
Over inflated Egos.. are what gets people into trouble with each other..
Becoming selfless is a superior way to live...but humans arent used to giving up so much for the benifit of others...
It takes dedication to do whats right...
just my opinion..

 

[Bill Cipher]

When people here discuss ego death, they are talking about a transient state of being brought about by psychedelics - and If you've experienced this, you know it. It's the point at which the sense or awareness of self is completely obliterated - where for lack of a better description you simply cease being you. It is not some kind of lasting transformation that exists once the drug wears off. To achieve this, you will want to look into getting a lobotomy, or maybe just wait for the permanent physical death that will come to you naturally in time.

If you are a human being who is alive and conscious, you are going to have an ego. You can strive to live in a less egocentric fashion (and to that end, the use of psychedelics may either help or hinder), but that is hardly the same thing.

You're not going to "kill" your ego through the use of any substance, except as a brief and temporary phenomenon.

 

[Muskogee Herbman]

I trip-sat my girlfriend on her first LSD trip recently and she definitely underwent ego-death.

She asked me who I was, who she was, why/how I could love her etc etc she said she felt she was losing her archetypes of "muskogee's girlfriend" "college grad" etc etc.. She has identity issues because she's a twin and she had referred to herself as we for most of her childhood. I think she realized that she didn't have an identity of her own and that she needed to work on that.
I am uncertain how to help her integrate this more but she's completely fine and it wasn't like a crisis or anything. I just want to help her find herself.

The crazy part was it was only 1 hit. Judging by her experience though I'd gauge she had 300-400 microgram experience I'd like to consider myself pretty experienced in psychedelics and I have never undergone ego-death myself, I'm not sure why but I've always never been super involved in labels on myself, or I already gave my ego up during one of my cluster headaches, or I just simply have not had that experience.

Maybe its that state where I just don't think about myself at all.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts on this.

 

[f1]

Breakthrough dose -> Enter Hyperspace -> Not a sound/sight/thought to be seen

 

[zhoro]

It is a matter of primary identification. It is a matter of a switch of identification from the transient to the permanent. That which remains as the base reality during a peak psychedelic experience, after all the habitual boundaries of identity have disappeared, exists now and at all times.

It is a result of gradually, persistently redirecting the attention to that, which is, upon examination, the only permanent aspect of one's existence, one's actual being, that to which all other aspects appear as objects of perception or ideation. There is nothing else that is permanent.

How can there remain any identification with the impermanent? It makes no sense! The very need for such identification dissolves upon bringing the attention to it. This body just changed in a million ways as this sentence was being typed. Thoughts come before the awareness and go without end. Can there be an attachment to any of them? Memory, the very story of this "I", changes all the time.

The more these supports of the ego are examined, the more the support for it weakens. The more the attention is drawn to the unchanging Presence, the more it rests there. It simply is its proper place, its home, its very self. It happens naturally, with less and less effort. The taste for all else gradually melts away. The ego may remain to support functioning in the world, but in a very transparent form. It simply cannot be taken seriously. It can be played, but it doesn't play you any more. This changes the whole game. It actually becomes a game, a source of joy, as the stakes that previously prevented it from being so, hold no weight.

This is the experience of many. People here know this, more or less.

 

[Synkromystic]

When people here discuss ego death, they are talking about a transient state of being brought about by psychedelics - and If you've experienced this, you know it. It's the point at which the sense or awareness of self is completely obliterated - where for lack of a better description you simply cease being you. It is not some kind of lasting transformation that exists once the drug wears off. To achieve this, you will want to look into getting a lobotomy, or maybe just wait for the permanent physical death that will come to you naturally in time.

If you are a human being who is alive and conscious, you are going to have an ego. You can strive to live in a less egocentric fashion (and to that end, the use of psychedelics may either help or hinder), but that is hardly the same thing.

You're not going to "kill" your ego through the use of any substance, except as a brief and temporary phenomenon.

:thumb_up:

exactly. Well said.

 

[indydude19]

When people here discuss ego death, they are talking about a transient state of being brought about by psychedelics - and If you've experienced this, you know it. It's the point at which the sense or awareness of self is completely obliterated - where for lack of a better description you simply cease being you. It is not some kind of lasting transformation that exists once the drug wears off. To achieve this, you will want to look into getting a lobotomy, or maybe just wait for the permanent physical death that will come to you naturally in time.

If you are a human being who is alive and conscious, you are going to have an ego. You can strive to live in a less egocentric fashion (and to that end, the use of psychedelics may either help or hinder), but that is hardly the same thing.

You're not going to "kill" your ego through the use of any substance, except as a brief and temporary phenomenon.

When reading it seemed to me that people had different ideas, at least slightly, on what this is, so i thought for the sake of common understanding, Everyone could give their ideas on the matter. Not what they think everyone else is talking about. even in this thread, people have defined it differently than what you just said, so please just give your idea and not what you think everyone's' is.

I am not intending this to sound rude or mean, just that i feel your post is not appropriate for this discussion. I would love to hear your ideas, which it seems you've stated, but i don't like "When people here discuss ego death". I don't believe you speak for everyone on the nexus.... If you do, then sorry to intrude on your authorita, but atleast put IMO or something, you sound like you're talking down :d

EDIT: I did not think Death implied murder, I think i said something about killing it earlier, but later stated, after collecting my thoughts better, that it to me is a detachment from the ego. To me its letting the ego die, not killing it my friend

 

[indydude19]

I trip-sat my girlfriend on her first LSD trip recently and she definitely underwent ego-death.

She asked me who I was, who she was, why/how I could love her etc etc she said she felt she was losing her archetypes of "muskogee's girlfriend" "college grad" etc etc.. She has identity issues because she's a twin and she had referred to herself as we for most of her childhood. I think she realized that she didn't have an identity of her own and that she needed to work on that.
I am uncertain how to help her integrate this more but she's completely fine and it wasn't like a crisis or anything. I just want to help her find herself.

The crazy part was it was only 1 hit. Judging by her experience though I'd gauge she had 300-400 microgram experience I'd like to consider myself pretty experienced in psychedelics and I have never undergone ego-death myself, I'm not sure why but I've always never been super involved in labels on myself, or I already gave my ego up during one of my cluster headaches, or I just simply have not had that experience.

Maybe its that state where I just don't think about myself at all.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts on this.

Thanks for the interesting story and your thoughts! good specualtion/take on it, I like your last statement on it especially :thumb_up:

 

[Tranzcentral]

Breakthrough dose -> Enter Hyperspace -> Not a sound/sight/thought to be seen

That was my experience from my last breakthrough, after hyperspace there was nothing but pure silence.....except for the sound of my own heart beat, everything that i had known to exist, even myself had all but gone...but when i no longer heard my heart beating, i panicked and broke the trip.

Has anyone had that happen, when all that was left was the sound of your own heartbeat and nothing else? I've never felt such an amazing calmness, everything was so still and quiet after i had disappeared..it went from being so intense to so amazingly peaceful.