HPBCD DMT part 2

[ava69]

Oral Tetrahydroharmine + sublingual HPBCD DMT journeys, very similar to mescaline

(1) On the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH)
(2) 300mg oral THH + 60mg sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dose every 1.5 hour, 5 hours of brightly colored CEV visions: example of the importance of THH to the journey, brightly colored snake visions.
(3) Post #3 on-wards, additional journeys diary

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These high-dose profoundly beautiful trips are identical in effects to me as taking from 500 to 700mg of the infinitely beautiful mescaline. The trips feel like "super-mescaline", but are dirt cheap in comparison to the rare and expensive cactus.
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10.18.2021 update:

Post #40: | <span style="frontcolor:pink !Important ;">High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron)</span> | DMT part 2 - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Tetrahydroharmine + 1-acetaldehyde LSD (similar to ALD-52) combo, like high dose mescaline:

I've moved on from the 300mg oral THH + sublingual HPBCD DMT, onto a 100% oral alternative, no re-dosing necessary every 1.5 hour like with the HPBCD DMT:

I'm not going to totally abandon the sublingual HPBCD DMT, it can still be taken as a 3rd drug under the tongue to add to the already super potent combo below. 2 to 3 alkaloids are of course more potent than one.

In closing, I'm going to post what I believe to be a revolutionary psychedelic combination, and it's dirt cheap compared to the rare and very expensive cactus...but it's just as long-lasting, profound, highly euphoric, visual, neon-colorful, music-enhancing & super deep head space, with zero-anxiety as two feet of fat bridgesii.

300mg THH + 250ug 1-acetaldehyde LSD report (2oz fresh cold sherry wine morning glory extract can substitute as well)

1) The combo of 300mg THH + 1-acetaldehyde LSD makes the beauty & aesthetic enhancement way stronger than LSD alone. Same "over the top" beauty enhancement as high dose cactus tea.

2) The music sounds much better than LSD alone, it feels very much like when you combine mescaline with LSD, as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline.

3) The combo is highly visual & neon-colorful with open eyes, with each of the 3 trips spaced two weeks apart experienced so far have seen neon-red-greens, neon-orange-blues, and even neon-purple-yellows, supercolorful just like high-dose cactus tea.

3) Very beautiful combination.

4) This 300mg THH + 250ug 1-acetaldehyde LSD combo is my absolute favorite, have since used it every 2 weeks x 3 times now...prefer it over everything else. No re-doses necessary as the THH has a 10.5 hour half life with peak at 5.25 hours. Very powerful: Lasts all evening, infinitely beautiful. I've consistently reached +5 Shulgin level strength every time, very life changing experience every time. Super deep head space, Divine to the extreme, heavenly mescaline-like spiritual euphoria for hours on end, no words to describe.

Note: THH is NOT an MAOI, she (feminine spirit) is a psychedelic SRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitor just like the following psychedelic serotonin reuptake inhibitors: mescaline, LSD, shrooms, ibogaine.

Make sure your THH is pure and not contaminated with unconverted harmaline (which is a RIMA/maoi). Dab some THH on a wet cue tip, rub on paper plate, hold under blacklight, if it glows blue you have THH, if any green glow, you have harmaline in it, keep in mind harmine also glows blue too though.
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Everyone, feel free to add your experiences here, this is part II, as I feel the original 13 page thread has grown quite long for part I: Journal: 50 Sublingual | <span style="frontcolor:pink !Important ;">High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron)</span> | DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

In part I (beginning of May thru end of Aug 2021) I would first take from 250 to 300mg of THH orally ...then 45 minutes later take a HPBCD DMT dose sublingually. The HPBCD DMT was held sublingually under tongue for 15 minutes over 33 times in those 4 months if you count the number of times I re-dosed in an evening which is every 1.5 hour two more times beyond the original dose, for 4.5 hour total long strong journey with super-long afterglow beyond the 4.5 hours. Each dose gives 1.5 hour of very strong effects, so long as THH is taken around 45 minutes before beginning the sublingual HPBCD DMT phase for the evening, as the THH doubles the half-life of the DMT, among many other miraculous things, see rest of paper below.

Pic 1 on post #2: Here is 2.4 grams brand new DMT extracted from 170g bark for use in some more HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca experiments. See post #19 here: Journal: 50 Sublingual | <span style="frontcolor:pink !Important ;">High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron)</span> | DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus if you need help on how to do this. Always get from 2.4 to 2.5 grams from 170g bark. I really love this orangish/yellowish colored DMT, it is very potent and other-worldly.

Once extracted and dry, I immediately freeze it in a small tall cylinder container to keep it's potency, I place a tiny fine mesh bag of course crushed vitamin C above the DMT in the cylinder to help keep it from oxidizing, and shoot a bit of inert wine-preservation gas through the vitamin C area before closing the screw type lid, which I hold hovering closely above the top. This replaces the oxygen in the cylinder with inert non-oxidizing gas, the mesh lets the gas thru while keeping the DMT from blowing upwards like a dust out of the container.

How to store re-dosing doses: I like to pre-prepare 90mg of DMT complexed to 630mg of HPBCD in 10 drops boiling hot water on a spoon (use 720mg HPBCD if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD): use muscles to mix, mash & scrape it all back and forth on a spoon using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes.

Then suck up the 0.5ml of liquid into a 3ml syringe (100 of these 3ml syringes are dirt cheap on-line) and store in fridge or freezer (defrosts very quickly at room temp) until ready to use for either (1) another oral re-dose with harmine or (2) sublingual 15 minute under the tongue re-doses.

This 90mg HPBCD DMT dose gives me a +5 Shulgin level strength for 1.5 hour duration each time I re-dose during the evening, whether it be once or twice more...and it leaves a long-lasting afterglow well beyond this.

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.

In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

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(1) On the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH):
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1. Post #12 of this paper: Journal: 50 Sublingual | <span style="frontcolor:pink !Important ;">High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron)</span> | DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca.

2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):

Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.

Trips (from here on 12/2/2011):

As to how the THH altered the experience -> I find rue extract+DMT to be very similar to mushrooms. I found the THH added to the rue+DMT to shift the experience to a state much closer to that provided by LSD. It was more clear, more energetic, more focused, and when confusion struck it was definitely more "acid-like".

The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this component of caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge.

At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged way-beyond 4k visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine, just as Gayle Highpine writes in linked paper:

Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher):

The vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts.

300mg Tetrahydroharmine (THH) teaching visions all by itself:

At 9pm on one night, took another 100mg of THH, for a total of 350mg of THH for afternoon & night, before I fell asleep, I watched dream-like monochrome imagery (usually always in green or blue for me) as the THH was still working...for around 45 minutes I viewed mind-blowing vistas--grand architecture and cities, a bookshelf full of ancient books, a view of the gardens in front of what looked like Versailles, France.

I traveled down a street in Midieval period where I saw beautiful women walking along the street, I could make out the houses & markets along the street. Many of these visions are like movies being played, way beyond 4k, highly detailed...true Ayahuasca visions...this always happens when I take at least 300mg or more of tetrahydroharmine during the late afternoon/early night. This is one of the best parts of the journey imho.

I've taken 300mg of THH on it's own many times and for hours with eyes closed I view endless dream-like visions, not only static scenes one after another, but slow and high speed movies being played for 2 hours...totally unlike normal dreams, she seems to tap into the "Akashic record" of the universe, the ether where all events, past, present, and future are stored...she shows you artwork, architecture, nature, culture, fantasy, history, the future, spiritual, supernatural. The visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest.

Tetrahydroharmine was called by one researcher "the tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" to give an example of her remarkable visionary properties. She is an isomer of a hormonal-like compound found in the brain naturally, she is what gives Ayahuasca her telapathine or telethapy properties and CEV dream-like visionary power.

I agree that 300mg THH in Caapi is just as visual as 100mg harmaline (as reported in TIHKAL), but without the nausea and dizziness, but it's not especially visual until say 250 to 300mg, then it gives one 1.5 to 2 hours of incredible closed eye realistic visions, this places it very high on the "psychedelic periodic table" for visions compared to just about any other entheogen.

It's like entering a university, She tells you a story for a long period. There is a theme to it all each time, the beautiful visions never repeat session to session. I only rarely go beyond 300mg THH, as a little dizziness sets in above 300mg for sure. No dizziness at 250mg, only a tiny bit at 300mg.

Several weeks ago, after drinking 300mg tetrahydroharmine, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away.

I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds, even the lost city of Atlantis, I was taken in for a bird's eye view, zooming in from way above to all the way down into the city center.

Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on forever with Caapi, I can recline and watch for 2 hours or more the visions, the visions are quite powerful for the first 45 minutes. You can take additional THH hours later to bring back the visions again for another 45 minutes, the doses are additive.

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(2) 300mg oral THH + 60mg sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dose every 1.5 hour, 5 hours of brightly colored CEV visions: example of the importance of THH to the journey, brightly colored snake visions.
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From 5-19-21: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 1.5 hour

Full Journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you feel a mild to moderate sting for around 15 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD (use 480mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) with 2 minutes stirring, mashing & kneading all of it hard (to force the DMT into the tornado like HPBCD cone) using your muscles on a spoon with 10 drops very hot water, put bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere...and hold for 15 minutes in the sublingual mucosa, begins to work in 22 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva. As I gently spit out the saliva, I will keep any tiny residual amount still trapped or pressed down under tongue for another 5 minutes usually, but I have noticed most of the time, it all dissolves within 15 minutes.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally around 45 minutes before I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 1.5 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven.

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 1.5 hour I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.

They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind.

I recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world & "BAM, Builders of the Ancient Mysteries".

Return of the Serpent & of Eden:

Return of the Serpent & of Eden

We have been called “witches”, “sorceresses”, and the patriarchal lines would say that we were the downfall of man (i.e. the story of the garden of Eden). The global conscio…

earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com

hxxps://earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/return-of-the-serpent-of-eden/

 

[ava69]

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Side note: HPBCD DMT outperforms freebase DMT and DMT salts used orally in Ayahuasca tea by many factors
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Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 120mg) with (150 to 180mg) harmine and (150 to 300mg) THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.

After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! The brewed leaf was always in the +5 strength range, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.

This agrees with what I read from clearlight:

Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.

Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:

Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?

With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.

When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.

Tatt, Dec 2015:

But experience wise, for me personally, pharma and teas are very different experiences. Pharma for me was always much less of a boot to the face, easier to handle in alot of ways, and supremely beautiful, if the dose is sufficient and set and setting are conducive.

Teas have always been much more thorough, as in the flow the experience takes tends to really sink it's claws in and dig deep, hitting levels within myself that pharma has always seemed to skim (even the earth shattering dosages of pharma). Emotionally and physically, teas have always strung the deeper chords, ime.

Downwardsfromzero in the Ayahuasca thread responded:

This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here - thanks for posting.

The HPBCD complexed freebase DMT used orally in an Ayahuasca tea is VERY STRONG in comparison, it is just like the Hawaiian psychotria, all encompassing & super strong. It is more potent, colorful, and clear, just like the actual leaf. The DMT freebase and DMT salts are inferior in comparison to HPBCD DMT. You can only complex HPBCD to freebase DMT.
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Pic 2: The Sorceress Medea, wine preservation canister, Helen of Troy, I shoot some of this inert wine preservation gas into the cylinder of DMT around the area where the vitamin C is before closing container to get rid of oxygen, and replace with inert (non-oxidizing) gases.

Pic 3: 2 step method for making HPBCD complexed DMT, many factors stronger than DMT freebase or DMT salts when used orally in Ayahuasca tea, easy to reach a Shulgin +5 strength, while DMT freebase and salts (70 to 120mg) never seem to reach beyond a mild +3 in over a dozen experiments.

Pic 4: Dennis Mckenna Ph.D paper, page 119: Average dose of Ayahuasca tea contains 158.8mg (THH) tetrahydroharmine & excerpt from Gayle Highpine on becoming a Shaman.

Pic 5: Example from the scientific literature: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. DMT freebase and DMT salts also have poor body absorption, but when freebase DMT is complexed to HPBCD, the oral absorption strength changes from mild to strong.

Pic 6: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl. Gayle Highpine "Snakes, the most common vision on Ayahuasca, are considered the manifest spirit of the vine." I totally agree.

Pic 7: Meditation at the ruins

 

[ava69]

8-27-21, Journey 1

It's been 2 weeks since taking anything.

When using the oral THH + sublingual HPBCD DMT with a bit of sublingual 30mg harmine fb mixed in, it feels extremely clear, identical to mescaline, bright and penetrating, diamond-like shimmering, infinitely beautiful, no sedation.

Took 1g vit C, 300mg +r-ala, vitamin E, I always take antioxidants whenever I do this, and drink plenty of luke warm water, never cold.

5pm took a capsule containing 275mg of THH

5:30 took 110mg brand new fresh DMT complexed to 770mg plain HPBCD in 12 drops of boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug, all mixed and mashed well on a spoon using the end of another spoon to knead it back and forth for 2 minutes, added in 30mg of freebase harmine, mixed all together with a toothpick, then placed bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it all adhered, held under tongue for 15 minutes, the sting was mild, very tolerable.

See pic post #276: https: www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=14
What I like to do is defrost a syringe by dunking it in a mug of 1 minute microwaved water, pull top plunger out of syringe so hot air pressure will not build up, after 1 minute take syringe out, replace plunger on syringe, pull off bottom syringe cap and drop or shoot the desired amount of dosage onto a spoon, add in the 30mg of harmine fb to the spoon, mix it all together with a toothpick, then place bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it will all adhere, hold under tongue in the sublingual mucosa for 15 minutes, phenomenal strength!

I have tried taking the harmine fb sublingually around 10 to 15 minutes before the sublingual HPBCD DMT several times, but the experience is MANY TIMES stronger when you take the sublingual harmine and sublingual HPBCD DMT at the exact same time under tongue, similar to how Ayahuasca is prepared, as the Shaman's do it, all at once.

5:45 it all absorbed within 15 minutes I noticed, spit out all saliva instead of swallowing into a cup. At 5:50 it hit me like a ton of bricks, geometrics on the walls, beautiful neon colors flashing in mid-air (short-lived) and CEV just a playground of non-stop images. When I wave my hand, there are heavy tracers like lightening flashes.

The beauty with open eyes so profound and infinite.

Easily a +4 Shulgin strength, however zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety, extremely pleasurable experience, enjoying watching movies to the max, and wearing heaphones listening to music, which is incredibly enhanced, sounds just heavenly.

All in all feels identical to around 400mg mescaline.

Just an incredible experience.

Still working extremely well at 7:30.

7:45 pm redosed another 110mg DMT HPBCD and 30mg harmine fb all mixed together on a spoon using a toothpick then put bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it all adhered, held under tongue for 15 minutes. The spiritual euphoria continues...the beauty with open eyes is just so over the top and incomprehensible.

Note 1: Updated this at 1am in the morning, was lying in bed for past 2 hours viewing, due in large part to the THH, since I have not taken it in a long time, endless dream-like rich imagery with eyes closed, visited far away places like Spain where I walked along the cliffs by the ocean, all the detail of the stone and walkways just incredible and Egypt, lots of Egyptian scenery, closeup of an Egyptian woman's makeup and hair & regal gown, glowing in it's detail, saw Egyptian Thoth who was depicted with the head of an ibis with beak, mesmerized by the imagery, met a beautiful women who showed me artwork which she held in her hands, grand architecture, just completely fascinating scenery, but completely unlike normal dreams, way beyond 4k in detail, real Ayahuasca visions. The remnants of the DMT no doubt added color here and there to much of the THH generated imagery, which is usually monochrome all by itself. I could go on for pages on the dream-like static and animated visions seen. Now going to sleep.

Pic: Journey 1: Woman sitting on the Eleusis ruins of ancient Greece where the sacred Kykeon entheogenic beverage was drank in ritual for nearly 2,000 years. In its heyday, up to 3,000 initiates could be received at a time.

Left to right: 275mg THH (tetrahydroharmine put into a capsule taken 1/2 hour to 45 minutes before administering the sublingual HPBCD DMT dose), 110mg DMT freebase, 770mg plain HPBCD, coffee mug to hold microwaved boiling hot water, dropping pipette to administer the 12 hot drops, spoon for mixing together & crushing well using muscles by scraping back and forth the DMT, HPBCD & 12 drops hot water, end of another spoon used to mix and crush it all together on the spoon for 2 minutes.

 

[ava69]

These high-dose profoundly beautiful trips are identical in effects to me as taking from 600 to 700mg of the infinitely beautiful mescaline. The trips feel like "super-mescaline", but are dirt cheap in comparison to the rare and expensive cactus.

MUSIC SOUNDS INCREDIBLE for hours on end. And beauty enhancement is way over the top.

THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

0.5ml HPBCD DMT dosage (90mg DMT complexed to 630 plain HPBCD, use 720mg if using 2-hydroxy PBCD in 10 drops boiling hot water with 2 minutes mixing & mashing on a spoon using the end of another spoon to crush it all together) can be sucked up into a 3ml syringe for shooting under tongue, then hold for 15 minutes, press into the sublingual mucosa, it all dissolves. Syringes can be stored in freezer for long-term storage. I like to re-dose every 1.5 hour (original dose + 2 more re-doses) for a 4.5 hour total long strong trip with super-long afterglow, similar to long mescaline journey. To keep at a 1:1 molar ratio use 1:7g dmt to hpbcd, or 1:8 dmt to 2-hydroxy pbcd.

 

[ava69]

For next journey two weeks from now, will do the following again:

I want to simulate what happened back in late June, it was a sublingual HPBCD DMT experience that I fell in love with.

I used the formula below, and had 90 minutes of open eyed visuals that were extremely powerful, WILD open eyed visuals: geometrics on the walls, neon colors flashing in the air, concentric colored circles in the air, everything surrounded by a neon rainbow aura of colors.

There was a curtain of visuals when moving from one room to the next in the doorway. Open-eyed profound beauty enhancement and diamond-like sparkling & shimmering surrounding the actresses on TV who looked like dazzling, glowing, super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves, exceptionally colorful. Music enhancement extremely powerful. Felt like 600mg to 700mg of mescaline.

Again, there was no anxiety, no nausea, no dizziness, very pleasurable experience.

Not only that, but when I re-dosed again with the same dosage (another 20mg HPBCD harmine + 90mg HPBCD DMT) it came back again full-force, same strength and same duration of remarkable open eyed visuals.

1. first took 300mg THH orally in a capsule.

2. then took all this sublingually: 20mg harmine freebase complexed to 120mg HPBCD in a few drops of water under tongue along with 90mg DMT freebase complexed to 630mg HPBCD in 10 drops of water.

The 20mg sublingual harmine has the power of 120mg oral harmine, which is plenty to slow down the inactivation of the DMT by MAO, localized in the mitochondria within the neuron in the brain...this allows the sublingual HPBCD DMT to be VERY STRONG and LAST for a LONG DURATION.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
HPBCD = Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
2-HPBCD = 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin

Note: Molecular weight of harmine = 212g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore use a 1:6g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Note: Molecular weight of DMT = 188g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore, use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:8g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Using tiny dose harmine sublingually acts more as a facilitator than a participant. It does not bother me and nothing like when I use it orally, it's very tolerable, no weirdness, sedation, etc. I'm not a big fan of oral harmine even at 150mg.

Pic: the open eye geometrics on the walls looked similar to art painting below.

 

[Grey Fox]

Its interesting because you say that this combo is most similar to high doses of mescaline. But in comparing it to mescaline (and in your description in general) the emphasis seems to be almost entirely on the visual effects that are generated. It seems as though what you are really saying is that this combo of THH and sublingual DMT brings about many visual effects which are similar to the visual effects of high doses of mescaline.

But are there other similarities beyond the visual aesthetics? Does this combo induce the heart opening and mental clarity of a mescaline trip? Is this a visual fireworks show without the deeper, healing elememts of the cactus experience? Or are they there as well? Looking beyond just the visual aspects, are there other similarities to mescaline or not?

 

[some one]

Thanks for the extensive write up in both your original post and in this new summary :thumb_up:

So THH may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake. Does it also increase its strength?

Have you tried sublingual HPBCD DMT without THH? If so could you explain the difference?

Is there a difference between sublingual Harmaline (freebase or HCL) and sublingual Harmaline complexed with HPBCD?

Why do you choose to take the THH orally instead of sublingually? If it doesn't work well sublingually, could you complex it with HPBCD as well?

The 10-12 drops of water.. Drop volume is pipette size dependent. What happens if you add too much or little water to the mix?

I love readying your positive vibe, but traditionally the compounds at hand are used for healing work. As Grey Fox mentions above you mainly talk about feeling euphoric from the visual spectacle (and enjoying listening to music), but is there a deeper layer to the experience? Or is it "just" a prolonged DMT vape session?

But experience wise, for me personally, pharma and teas are very different experiences. Pharma for me was always much less of a boot to the face, easier to handle in alot of ways, and supremely beautiful, if the dose is sufficient and set and setting are conducive.

Teas have always been much more thorough, as in the flow the experience takes tends to really sink it's claws in and dig deep, hitting levels within myself that pharma has always seemed to skim (even the earth shattering dosages of pharma). Emotionally and physically, teas have always strung the deeper chords, ime.

Meaning water pulled tea (from both light and force plants) is the "deepest" experience.
Less deep is pharma (isolated DMT + isolated Harmaline).
So.. Even less deep (as "shallow" as smoalking) is sublingual (HPBCD) DMT with oral THH?

Or is the 'fun and games' you describe your default experience which you also have with tea etc? If so, nothing wrong with that. Just trying to understand the difference of this route better. I actually wish I had more positivity myself instead of the apocalyptic climate crisis and civilization collapse world view I get with shrooms and aya lately.

Your preferred THH dosage is 300mg. This is a high dose..

Vaped spice and oral THH (synthetic/racemic) - Introduction Essay - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

.. I would advice anyone new to THH to start lower and working your way up.

THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

At the aya ceremonies I've been everyone usually takes 2-3 dosages, some take 4. Each dose lasts a certain duration. Two doses spread out over several hours are not the same a single dose twice as large (as you seem to say 150 + 150 = 300).

You also can't say that 300mg THH is "a normal dose by experienced aya drinkers" as..

If Caapi contains +-2% Harmalas, 50g of Vine contains +-1000mg of Harmalas. Meaning, one dose of Caapi brew contains 5 doses of Pharmauasca! The alkaloid content of Caapi varies so much that it’s impossible to say what’s going on. Some speculate that Caapi brew has something in it that slows or regulates the absorption of Harmalas.

But all in all, great to hear that HPBCD complexed DMT works sublingually and that THH combines well!

 

[ava69]

Thanks for great post, kind words & questions some one. Will answer questions below.

Complete short summary:

Some one, so the deal is that HPBCD makes the non-water soluble freebase DMT water soluble. It traps and delivers small molecules such as DMT extremely effectively across the mucosa membrane under the tongue, with it's high permeability (only 100 to 200 micrometers thick) and rich blood supply--shuttling the DMT directly to bloodstream, where it penetrates past the sublingual mucosa as the potent freebase into the bloodstream, where it reaches the brain with amazing strength.

The 150mg to 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before beginning the sublingual phase will double the half-life of the DMT, but also...as little as 20mg sublingual harmine in combo with the sublingual HPBCD DMT has the power of 120mg oral harmine, which is plenty to slow down the deamination of the DMT by MAO, localized in the mitochondria within the neuron in the brain...this allows the sublingual HPBCD DMT to be VERY STRONG and LAST for a LONG DURATION.

See journey report above from late June: The above formula allows for 90 minutes of wild amazing open-eyed visuals, very strong music enhancement & over the top beauty enhancment.

Just as Jonathan Ott reports, the oral or sublingual dose is about half the potency of inhaled smoke vapor. The sublingual HPBCD DMT dose comes on in only half the time of oral DMT (22 minutes instead of 45 minutes) but still lasts as long as an oral dose (90 minutes).

There are countless reports and threads here of people trying plain sublingual DMT freebase and DMT salts sublingually, and just not getting any effects, however, complexing the DMT freebase to the HPBCD will allow it to absorb at near 100% efficiency sublingually in my experience.

This is very similar to how chemist Patrick Arnold made non-water soluble pro-hormones that converted in the body via enzyme activity to 95% testosterone absorb at near 100% efficiency sublingually as well. It worked so well, he created a company called ERGOPHARM that made millions selling these patented cyclo-diol (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin complexed pro-hormones) to body-builders for a decade until they were made illegal, these sublingual HPBCD complexed pro-hormones worked extremely well when taken sublingually. It worked so well, the pharmaceutical companies later picked up on his idea and started marketing sublingual HPBCD tesosterone to hypogonadal men, and according the the published studies I have read on-line it worked like a gem to raise all of the men's testosterone levels to the high-normal (1100 to 1200ng/dl).

In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM) to be used sublingually under the tongue.

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/

hxxps://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/

I bought and used these over the counter sublingual HPBCD pro-hormones, had my testosterone level checked 30 minutes later at a bloodwork lab, and it sored from my low normal 300ng/dl to a whopping 1500ng/dl, well above the high normal of 1100 ng/dl in gifted men.

I've done this sublingual DMT over 33 times if you count the number of times I've re-dosed in an evening, always two more re-doses every 1.5 hour for a 4.5 hour long trip with super long afterglow.

What I began to notice, later on when I introduced a tiny amount of sublingual harmine to the sublingual DMT, thanks to the writings of Loveall, Jamie, amor_fati, Gibralter, and others...

...all held under the tongue at the exact same time, is that complexing the 20mg harmine to 120mg HPBCD in 3 drops boiling hot water masked the nasty taste of the harmine better than just using the plain harmine freebase sublingually. The HPBCD also helps the harmine freebase absorb better than normal.

See trip report above, the tiny sublingual harmine dose potentiated the already strong sublingual HPBCD DMT to un-heard of incredible strength and duration, my preferred method of using it.

Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:

You cant compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.

Dr. Narang and Sharma in attached paper on post #2 mention in their 2010 sublingual paper that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral.

In my estimation, sublingual harmine is "at least" x6 times as powerful as oral (3+10 divided by 2 = avg of x6), therefore 20mg is at least as powerful as 120mg oral harmine, which is the threshold oral dose (1.5mg/kg) that Jonathan Ott found to easily activate 35mg doses of DMT and above. His weight is 175lbs.

I have had +5 Shulgin experiences with just the plain sublingual HPBCD DMT, taking of course 300mg THH 45 minutes before beginning the sublingual HPBCD DMT phase of course.

But the addition of the tiny dose sublingual HPBCD harmine along with the sublingual HPBCD dmt just takes this all to soring new levels of strength and duration, a full 90 minutes of "over the top" potent open-eyed visuals, all recounted on post #5.

Music will blow you away, heard as if you were an alien experiencing sound and music for the very first time, every instrument stands out on it's own...just heavenly. The same exact powerful music enhancment that high dose Bolivian bridgesii, Peruvian torch, san pedro cactus tea imparts on it's drinkers.

Besides the potent visuals & music enhancment, beauty enhancement is way over the top and infinite.

Yes, the HPBCD DMT will work sublingually without the THH, but it's not anything like mescaline when used without the THH, colors are dark, music is not enhanced, euphoria not apparent, beauty enhancement is not over the top, half life is not doubled, short lasting, etc.

In conclusion, the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH) for those who just started reading:

1. Part 10 of the first paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green or yellow in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca.

THH has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours, so you only need dose it once, as it lasts all evening in combo with the HPBCD DMT sublingual doses, which I re-dose under-tongue from a storage syringe (explained on post #1) every 1.5 hour twice more beyond original dose to keep the journey super-strong for many hours.

As a chemist, I only use my own pure home-made THH, I have no idea about any other THH out there. If you use THH you don't make yourself, at least grab some of it on a wet cue tip and smear it on a paper plate and hold in front of blacklight, if it glows solid light blue, it is THH, but keep in mind harmine also glows same color. THH also has a lingering metallic like taste when smeared onto tongue.

Any green or yellow in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline, how much is anyones guess, could be a tiny bit or alot. Harmaline at least for me can cause dizziness, nausea, sick feelings, sleepiness with short period of re-bound insomnia the next night...depending on how much of it there is.

2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent which can be seen for hours on end...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin. See receptorome chart located on part I paper.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, see Dennis Mckenna ph.D. paper on post #2. when 2 cups are drank by more advanced members for evening at the vegetals, those advanced people are consuming around 300mg of THH. As a beginner, always stick with 150mg of THH or similar, I like to think of it like this:

150mcg of acid is a good medium dose, 150mg of THH is a good medium dose.
200mcg of acid is a strong dose, 200mg of THH is a strong dose.
250mcg of acid is a very potent dose, 250mg of THH is a very potent dose.
300mcg of acid is heavy strong dose, 300mg of THH is heavy strong dose.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. The music enhancment of THH + DMT is just extraordinary, music lovers like myself will delight for hours on end.

In conclusion, I've taken Ayahuasca over 80 times now, cactus tea over 200 times, I've noticed recently that much of the bridgesii I used to love and cherish (my favorite cactus drink) has become nearly extinct and what does remain is super expensive. Even san pedro, which can be all over the place potency wise, has become very expensive. You can spend a small fortune only to discover it is very potent, or only slightly above threshold.

Was thrilled to discover this sublingual HPBCD DMT in combo with oral THH, (thanks to the help of an Ayahuasca vision recounted in 1st paper on post #53) as it gives me identical effects as high dose bridgesii cactus tea, infinitely beautiful, brilliantly penetrating, no sedation, long 4.5 hour trip (so long as I keep sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dosing every 1.5 hour) with long-lasting afterglow.

 

[some one]

Thanks for the quick reply ava69.

To summaries your replies (orange) into my questions (quotes):

So THH may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake. Does it also increase its strength?

Without THH the DMT visuals are weaker (darker colored and less interesting).

Have you tried sublingual HPBCD DMT without THH? If so could you explain the difference?

THH adds more potent visuals, music and beauty enhancement, mescaline euphoria, longer duration.

Is there a difference between sublingual Harmaline (freebase or HCL) and sublingual Harmaline complexed with HPBCD?

Complexed harmine masks the taste and helps freebase harmine to absorb better.

Is there a deeper layer to the subl DMT + THH experience, or is it "just" a prolonged DMT vape session?

It gives an identical effects as high dose of cactus tea, infinitely beautiful, brilliantly penetrating and no sedation.

Some more questions:

Why do you choose to take the THH orally instead of sublingually? If it doesn't work well sublingually, could you complex it with HPBCD as well?

Is it because oral THH lasts a longer duration and you only need to take it ones? Personally I'd prefer to make one mix of DMT, Harmine and THH and place that under the tongue. Or would that be too much volume making it harder to hold for 15 minutes?

The 10-12 drops of water.. Drop volume is pipette size dependent. What happens if you add too much or little water to the mix?

Is the amount of water the minimum required to dissolve the substances? Adding more will make it more difficult to keep the solution under the tongue? What happens when you evaporate the water after complexing? Will the DMT - HPBCD bond break again? Making it not water soluble anymore?

 

[ava69]

Yes, you nailed it some one.

Some more questions:

Why do you choose to take the THH orally instead of sublingually? If it doesn't work well sublingually, could you complex it with HPBCD as well?

Is it because oral THH lasts a longer duration and you only need to take it ones? Personally I'd prefer to make one mix of DMT, Harmine and THH and place that under the tongue. Or would that be too much volume making it harder to hold for 15 minutes?

I take the THH always orally because it causes zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety, it is like water to me, completely inert, extremely cheap to make yourself, around 25 cents per 300mg dose. It's personal preference, you can use it sublingually if you want, but I never have, you are on your own experimenting there.

Why tax your sublingual mucosa with more than it needs to handle? The 20mg sublingual HPBCD harmine + 90 to 100mg sublingual HPBCD DMT already eats up 15 minutes of time absorbing, although much of the time I have had it all absorb in 10 to 12 minutes. Studies with sublingual Viagra attached on paper #1 on post #1 showed even 100mg doses absorbed just fine, which is around the combined dosage of ingredients we are using.

THH has a 10.5 hour half life with peak at 5.25 hours, so yes, you need only take it once in a capsule, it lasts all evening, for example, in journey #1 in post #3, I took it at 5pm, and was still having closed eye THH visions when I closed my eyes and laid in bed from 11pm to 1am in the morning, for 2 hours I viewed Egyptian scenery, Spain cliffs, walkways by the ocean, beautiful woman who showed me artwork in her hand, Egyptian thoth with the head of a bird, I could go on for pages, hundreds of visions.

THH is in the same family as ibogaine, these beta carbolines cause closed eye dream-like visions in monochrome for many, many hours, even some 6 hours after I took it. The remnants of the still working DMT I took earlier in the evening (two 110mg x re-doses) was still able to "color" the normally monochrome way beyond 4k THH generated teaching visions, even from 11pm to 1am.

For example, the beautiful woman I saw holding the artwork had colored fingernails, the Egyptian woman wearing the makeup, which apparently was a common vanity thing even back then, was just beautiful, all the different shades stood out, and her hair and gown were flowing. The Egyptian thoth had multicolored head & beak just like a bird.

There were hundreds of static and animated visions for the 2 hours I meditated and closed my eyes in bed, and they were gently colored by the DMT. I would need a tape recorder going as I lay in bed in order to speak into it to record all the visions. This is what Benny Shanon used to do when he recorded the visions for his book "Antipodes of the Mind" as there are so many that just go on and on for hours.

The 10-12 drops of water.. Drop volume is pipette size dependent. What happens if you add too much or little water to the mix?

Is the amount of water the minimum required to dissolve the substances? Adding more will make it more difficult to place under the tongue? What happens when you evaporate the water after complexing? Will the DMT - HPBCD bond break again? Making it not water soluble anymore?

I have noticed that keeping the drops of water at 10 drops used for 90mg and below DMT, and 12 drops used for 110mg of DMT and above to work well. HPBCD can hold 1000mg per 1ml at room temp, 1ml = 20 drops, 0.5ml is 10 drops. So 10 drops (0.5ml) can easily hold 500mg alkaloids, however, this amount is doubled with hot water, so 10 drops of hot water can easily hold nearly 1000mg HPBCD complexed alkaloids. So when I use 12 drops hot water to hold 110mg dmt complexed to 770mg HPBCD, it holds just fine.

Yes, adding more water beyond 12 drops makes it more difficult to hold under tongue, whereas 10 to 12 drops is very comfortable. If at any time you feel the need to get rid of any saliva before the 15 minutes is over, simply tilt head forward and relieve the built up salvia into a cup while still holding any remaining HPBCD DMT under tongue, it won't go anywhere.

The sting can be mild to moderate, it does not bother me at all, as it is so worth the effects, and it teaches one how to remain silent and meditate for a while.

I have not been able to evaporate off the water, as it is a sticky complex already, it just becomes super sticky the more the water evaporates off, to the point where it will not form a solid, but a flat sticky entity that flows over the surface of the whole spoon if left out long enough.

I realize this sublingual method is not for everyone, and that is why the spoon full of HPBCD DMT can just simply be added to a 1oz hot tea with 150mg to 300mg THH added and from 140 to 180mg harmine added, a bit of crushed vit c to dissolve the harmalas, mixed well and drank all at the same time.

I just prefer the sublingual method as there is none of the typical heaviness of an Ayahuasca brew, which comes from the oral harmine, and I can re-dose more sublingually every 1.5 hour without having to take additional oral harmine + HPBCD DMT tea. I'm already not a big fan of harmine orally, so having to redose more of it orally is not my favorite. But others won't be bothered.

Pic: Alex Garant's artwork will have you seeing double, ibogaine and tetrahydroharmine are in the same betacarboline family.

 

[some one]

Got it, makes sense

I'm thinking that my attempt of this route would be a lower dose of:

+00 min: 50mg THH (synth from Harmaline) taken orally
+45 min: 20mg Harmala-HCL, or complexed freebase Harmala (Rue extract) taken sublingually
+45 min: 60mg complexed DMT taken sublingually

Then adjust THH and DMT dosages according to my sensitivity.

Last questions:

What happens if you don't take any THH, but increase the dose of complexed DMT and Harmine?

Would the visuals stay dull? If not I dont mind the shorter duration as 45 min of vape intensity sounds more than enough. I understand that THH is much better, but I'd need to make some first.

To what ratio should you complex freebase Harmine to?

Also 1:1 molar weight? Which is?

Whats the difference between HPBCD and 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin?

Isn't this the same substance? The abbreviation for 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin is HP-β-CD, aka: HPBCD, correct?

 

[ava69]

Your plan sounds solid, the 50mg THH will give you SRI (serotonin reuptake effects) similar to around 50mcg of acid, a weak dose, but still perceptible.

Just as Jonathan Ott reports, the oral or sublingual dose is about half the potency of inhaled smoke vapor. The sublingual HPBCD DMT dose comes on in only half the time of oral DMT (22 minutes instead of 45 minutes) but still lasts as long as an oral dose (90 minutes).

some one said:

What happens if you don't take any THH, but increase the dose of complexed DMT and Harmine?

Will the visuals stay dull? If not I dont mind the shorter duration. 45 min of vape intensity sound more than enough.

Yes, the visuals still stay dull. There will still be no euphoria, music enhancement, stimulation, no THH generated imagery for the DMT to color. The THH makes a major difference, adding it will make the experience similar to a mescaline experience, remember DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but requires THH to do this...important teamwork. Ibogaine, mescaline, LSD, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenine in Amazonian stuff which combine with DMT for a 3 hour snuff experience, all block serotonin, shutting down the day-to-day survival filters so that infinite mind can manifest in combo with the DMT. Receptorome chart on part I of paper explains this.

See the amazing report from James Oroc who combined smoked DMT with smoked 5-meo-dmt (which blocks serotonin) on same receptorome chart post, this is same thing the THH does, the dull visions then become overwhelming artistry imho as well:

DMT + tiny amounts of 5-meo-dmt [perhaps similar theoretically to Amazonian snuffs which have a makeup of 7.4% bufotenin (potent 5-ht1a agonist), 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT (potent 5-ht1a agonist) & 0.16% DMT (poor potency as 5-ht1a agonist):

James Oroc, Tryptamine Palace:

As an experiment (and in a foreign land) I smoked the last of the Bufo alvarius venom (the story of whose collection is described within the pages of Tryptamine Palace) with some ‘regular’ DMT (extracted from Jurema Preta.). In the vast majority of my early nigerine (DMT) experiences, I encountered visual fields of ‘dots’ that would come together to form images, much like the pointillism style of painting developed by Georges Seurat or the Australian Aboriginal song-line paintings.

With the addition of the 5-MeO-DMT containing toad-venom to the DMT however, the visual characteristic was completely different and totally unique to my experiences so far. On this occasion there was a complete lack of ‘dots’ or ‘points’ of any kind, the fine lines of the constantly changing imagery were like those painted with a single-hair brush on Tibetan thangkas and due to the overwhelming artistry of what I was seeing, I could only think of the vaulted ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in comparison.

Sistene Chapel: This was without a doubt the most ‘visionary’ experience I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter and I lay there with my eyes shut watching the most fantastic parade of the Collective Unconsciousness imaginable, wishing that it would never end, and as I sit here now I can not even describe one tiny corner of it, since every image in the multitude of imagery was in such constant motion that they defied all but a glimpse. And then moments later, like a tent collapsing when its ropes are cut, the vision is gone. Leaving only a struggle of words to explain it, since nothing before or after has come close to this experiences visual majesty.

To what ratio should you complex freebase Harmine to?

Also 1:1 molar weight? Which is?

Harmine to HPBCD gram ratio given in post #5:

HPBCD = Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
2-HPBCD = 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin

Note: Molecular weight of harmine = 212g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore use a 1:6g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Note: Molecular weight of DMT = 188g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore, use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:8g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

What's the difference between HPBCD and 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin?

Isn't this the same substance? The abbreviation for 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin is HP-β-CD, aka: HPBCD, correct?
some is one - here is some - there is one

Myself and downwardsfromzero covered this at length in part I paper. Basically, they are both the same thing, either one will work just fine. 2-hydroxy is just more able to hold propyl molecules better. I have both forms, and have used them interchangeably. I have even read many chemical suppliers refer to them as basically the same thing as well.

 

[some one]

Great, adding 'make some THH' to my to do list hahah

Your plan sounds solid, the 50mg THH will give you SRI (serotonin reuptake effects) similar to around 50mcg of acid, a weak dose, but still perceptible.

Well I'll try more THH (100mg) and some less DMT (50mg) for starters then.

HPBCD = Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
2-HPBCD = 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin

Got it.

Note: Molecular weight of harmine = 212g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore use a 1:6g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Note: Molecular weight of DMT = 188g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore, use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:8g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Thanks!

Myself and downwardsfromzero covered this at length in part I paper. Basically, they are both the same thing, either one will work just fine. 2-hydroxy is just more able to hold propyl molecules better. I have both forms, and have used them interchangeably. I have even read many chemical suppliers refer to them as basically the same thing as well.

Good to know. I'll see which one I can purchase the easiest.

Keep you updated :thumb_up:

 

[starway7]

Ive been researching and found some info claiming caapi leafe contains a fair amount of THH as well as the vine..maybe more thh than the vine!

I have some old caapi leaf from 2015 .. [called black caapi] .. im boiling some tea right now...

About a large tea bags worth dry leafe..i took the half brewed pot under black light and it has the prettiest ..[pale blue color]!:thumb_up: [the same color of THH!]

I know from experiance caapi leaf tea is much milder tasting than rue tea..if fact it doesnt have the bitterness that rue has... a little honey and it would tast great!

This time im adding a dash of white vinegar to pull out more actives...

Shroombee..and others interested might want to get some caapi leafe to experament with its mild fairly safe and could contain the THH we are looking for!

So many years back extracting actives from leaf was not working that great about 6 nyears ago..but now someomne may have found a better way to get the light out of the leaf/?

If not just brewing some crude tea will suffice for now...

I may try some tonight with a little SPC!

 

[starway7]

Ok after dosing a light amount of caapi leafe tea...

first putting a little under my tounge for ten minutes... hit the vape pipe and come up was smooth very much like rue!

Also i noticed the hint of light OEVs and light CEVs...

that was just a tiny amount under tounge..

Then with more than half of my spice vaped..[with some left ]

I then drank most of the tea and waited 40 minutes...

I did not feel the heavy [rue body high] but felt more clear headed ..

After drinking the bigest part of the caapi leaf tea...waiting 40 minutes hit what was left in the chore boy pad and held it in long as posible and exhaled..

Layed back shut eyes..and was getting stronger CEVs..and was feeling very relaxed similar to rue but more clear headed...

My CEVs were comming fairly constant for about 15 to 20 minutes much better after drinkingb the tea...

Every thing here was low dose...only 8 drops of spice tincture ..totally equaling only 16 to 20 mgs

and my hits were broken up ..not all at once....

If i had vaped it all at once after the tea..the CEVS would have been much more defined and lasted longer.i think..

must try the leafe tea again with higher dose of spice....

Compaired to rue...




Ther leafe tea was only slightly bitter but much more mild tasting compaired to rue..

The leafe brew with spice... left me feeling more clear headed although relaxed...

The leaf brew also put my body in a nice realaxation state [similar to rue only without the slugish tired feeling]

The leafe brew..also ..[[defenantly slowedf down my come up]].. much like rue does..there was no anxiety at all..

the caapi leaf tea wasnt all that concintrated... as i used a large tea bag amount of crushed leaves...and the spice dose was light....

Adding a dash of white vinegar to the tea brew i believe pulled actives more out!

I expect if i vape more spice...and make the leaf tea stronger..ill have more solid longer lasting CEVs and posibly OEVs!




Dorge
#10
Posted : 5/28/2010 3:44:51 AM
QUOTE

Chen Cho Dorge


Posts: 1781
Joined: 30-Dec-2008
Last visit: 25-Nov-2012
simple as that...
10x caapi leaf is the way to go. honestly... other harmalas will do though very well... rue extract, passion flower... but the leaf of the vine has thh and harmine in it and ...[[no harmaline]]... this makes it much less cloudy.
The more harmalas you add the less it is like smoking DMT and the more it is like ayahuasca.
Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/

 

[some one]

My default way to make changa is to use full spectrum caapi leaf extract instead of isolated rue harmala extract.

Add 9 grams of caapi leaf into ethanol.
Leave it for a month in a closed jar, occasionally shaking.
Maybe a month could be reduced to 1-2 weeks.
Filter the leafs out and boil the ethanol down to a low volume.
Add 1 gram of new caapi leaf, evaporate the solution into it and dry.
Voila, 10x caapi leaf.

I first used to add 1:1 DMT to the leaf to smoke as changa from a bong.
Later when I started vaping the spice I smoked the 10x leaf without impregnated DMT from a bong.
Followed by vaping the DMT separately straight after from a different device.

In theory you could drink caapi leaf tea to combine with sublingual DMT. But the question is how much THH is present. As ada69 mentioned the blue could be harmine which glows the same color under UV. As it's easier to create leaf tea than create THH, if enough THH is present to work well that would be great. Instead of oral tea you could also administer a leaf extract tincture sublingually which might require up to 10x less THH for the same effect (maybe shorter lasting). The Harmine /Harmaline would already be in it as well. If 30-40mg of this would be enough, you could combine it with complexed DMT in one go. That is if the leaf contains a sufficient amount of THH. Being an organic product the % of actives will vary. Maybe use a leaf tinture sublingually for its full spectrum harmala effects, combined with additional THH.

 

[ava69]

Will post another oral 250 to 300mg THH 45 minutes before in a capsule, then sublingual 20mg HPBCD harmine + sublingual 90 to 110mg HPBCD DMT both taken sublingually at the exact same time again soon, when I get a chance, could be a week or more from now.

Starway7, I've read all of the old sublingual DMT threads here many times over, and saw you post on one of them from 2018, you seem to go way back in your interest on this, keep up the good work.

Some one, read your essential DMT guide now, very impressed, well done, appreciate all the hard work you put into it.

Important points, and why I keep coming back to HPBCD DMT sublingual administration over oral dosing:

1) The HPBCD DMT "under the tongue" held down in the sublingual mucosa sting can be mild to moderate, many times for me the sting is mild, does not bother me at all, as it is so worth the powerful effects that hit 22 minutes later with 90 minutes very strong duration, noticed consistently that all of the dose absorbs in 15 minutes, many times I've noticed it absorb within 10 to 12 minutes. This also teaches one how to remain silent for a short while and meditate.

1) I've compared (taking 45 minutes earlier as usual 300mg THH in a capsule) 12 evenings of sublingual HPBCD DMT dosing (original dose + two more redoses every 1.5 hr = 36 total doses) vs. 4 oral tea doses now since the beginning of May 2021 (5 months worth of experience), allowing at least 7 days between journeys and have noticed that the sublingual HPBCD DMT doses have been very strong in comparison to the tea doses, anywhere from 3 times stronger on up.

I've many times taken 300mg THH + 200mg harmine + 90mg HPBCD DMT tea all orally, only to turn around and take after it wears off: 90mg HPBCD DMT sublingually, and been completely blown away by the strength and duration of the sublingual dose compared to the oral dose, shocked at the awe and power of the sublingual in other words.

With the oral 300mg THH taken 45 minute before in a capsule, then 90 mg sublingual HPBCD DMT doses + 20mg HPBCD harmine both taken sublingually at the exact same time, or with just taking the HPBCD DMT sublingual dose around 2 hours after taking an oral tea dose...

...I was seeing not only geometrics overlayed on the walls, but double images, for example, when looking up only slightly, was seeing a super bright double image of the television in mid-air, similar to the "double vision" artwork posted earlier.

There were heavy tracers like lightening flashes, colored concentric circles in the air, neon colors flashing in mid-air and broadcast onto walls, then seperated into fine moving neon waves like a laser scanner projection, beautiful neon-colored rainbow auras surrounding everything, and a curtain of visuals in the doorway when walking to another room.

Just completed fascinated by the open eyed visuals, the CEV's just a playground of images & visions, music incredibly enhanced, and beauty enhancement way over the top. No anxiety, no dizziness, no nausea, very pleasurable experience, identical to high dose bridgesii tea in my experience.

In response to Grey Fox, yes, the head-space is very deep, just like with cactus tea, heart-opening, borders broken down, ego-broken down, powerful spiritual insights & feelings, no different from high dose cactus tea. Not man-made feeling at all but very archaic and primitive, feels very ancient.

2) Dr. Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper (attached on post #1) that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral.

3) Wikipedia on sublingual administration: Sublingual administration - Wikipedia

and states the following:

"many drugs are much more potent taken sublingually"

"this route translates the chemical directly to the brain, where most psychoactives act."

"When a chemical comes in contact with the mucous membrane beneath the tongue, it is absorbed. Because the connective tissue beneath the epithelium contains a profusion of capillaries, the substance then diffuses into them and enters the venous circulation.[1] In contrast, substances absorbed in the intestines are subject to first-pass metabolism in the liver before entering the general circulation.

Sublingual administration has certain advantages over oral administration. Being more direct, it is often faster,[quantify] and it ensures that the substance will risk degradation only by salivary enzymes before entering the bloodstream, whereas orally administered drugs must survive passage through the hostile environment of the gastrointestinal tract, which risks degrading them, by either stomach acid or bile, or by enzymes such as monoamine oxidase (MAO).

Furthermore, after absorption from the gastrointestinal tract, such drugs must pass to the liver, where they may be extensively altered; this is known as the first pass effect of drug metabolism. Due to the digestive activity of the stomach and intestines, the oral route is unsuitable for certain substances, such as salvinorin A.

This may be a preferred method to simple oral administration, because MAO is known to oxidize many drugs (especially the tryptamines such as DMT) and because this route translates the chemical directly to the brain, where most psychoactives act."

 

[Grey Fox]

In response to Grey Fox, yes, the head-space is very deep, just like with cactus tea, heart-opening, borders broken down, ego-broken down, powerful spiritual insights & feelings, no different from high dose cactus tea. Not man-made feeling at all but very archaic and primitive, feels very ancient.

Good to know. Thanks for the info!

I wonder why there would be such a strong similarity with cactus?

 

[ava69]

Grey Fox said:

Good to know. Thanks for the info!

I wonder why there would be such a strong similarity with cactus?

amor_fati: #21, Posted 3/2/2010 3:18:49 PM:

Oh wow.... 20drops harmaline, 5drops THH, 20drops recycled jurema-acetate, all sublingually...absolutely one of the most powerful pharma experiences of SWIM's life...

but THH would likely be ideal, as Espiridion reports it to be much more like mescaline.

It's the THH Grey Fox, it has numerous similarities to mescaline, I've been using it for many years, Espiridion also agrees. I've seen the receptorome data on it, and it not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors associated with beauty and aesthetics appreciation, just like with mescaline, see Thomas S. Ray receptorome chart on part I paper. It's like the beta-carboline version of mescaline.

So few people have experience with it, it's one of the best kept secrets in the psychedelic world. When combined with DMT, it's so nearly identical it's mind blowing, my absolute favorite, the combo is dirt cheap in comparison to mescaline, I've taken high dose cactus tea over 200 times, and Ayahuasca over 80 times now, and extracted mescaline a lot, way before I switched to the cactus tea. Unfortunately, now days with fat bridgesii nearly extinct, and san pedro all over the place potency wise, you can spend a small fortune just to get a dose barely above threshold. I am unable to grow cactus where I live due to yearly freeze, therefore I was/am dependent on growers. One of the best well known growers of bridgesii died recently, leaving the market nearly bare, what does remain is super-expensive and smaller.

The entry for tetrahydroharmine in TIHKAL is laughable, and a complete fallacy. Dr. Shulgin wrote that he never got the chance to try THH, and thankfully so, as it probably would have been made illegal already. The one inexperienced person who did try it wrote that "300mg THH was like 100mg of harmaline." That is completely un-true. My home-made 300mg THH is very stimulating, no nausea, no dizziness like with the sedating, nauseating harmaline. It's very euphoric, colorful & diamondlike in it's beauty enhancement, CEV teaching visions for hours on end, shimmering diamondlike perfection with open eyes.

When combined with DMT, important teamwork: there is infinite beauty with open eyes, profound music enhancement, over-the-top beauty enhancement, extremely colorful with out of this world neon colors, more visual that acid or mushrooms, powerful spiritual euphoria, deep head-space, heart-opening, long duration of spiritual insights and feelings, people look like dazzling, glowing, super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves, very much identical to high dose mescaline in my experience. Barriers and day-to-day survival filters lifted, infinite mind manifests, all spiritual things & qualities are seen for what they are: infinite, forever, divine. Like Aldous Huxley said in "Moxley", the day to day "reducing valve" of the brain which allows us to survive everyday life, is lifted, and infinite mind manifests.

Here is a quote attached form the late great DM Turner on mescaline, this very much applies to THH + DMT in every way:

 

[Grey Fox]

That is so interesting. I have always felt that there is something different about cactus compared to other psychedelics I've tried. It feels more "complete", so to speak. The visuals are beautiful and elaborate. But the transformation of my headspace and bodyspace back to a simpler, clearer, more connected, more in tune, healing, ancestral feeling sphere of extisence. With cactus I am one foot in this world and one foot in the dimension of energy and patterns and constantly morphing creatures of fractal, electric design. All while being healed and connected to the Earth and humanity. My experience is not as extensive as yours. I have tripped on dried cubensis mushrooms somewhere in the number of 40 to 50 times. Cactus somewhere now in the 30's of times. LSD 6 times. And few lesser ones like HBWR and lower doses of Salvia. But cactus has always stood out as the deepest, most immersive, and most healing.

So it is fascinating for me to hear about your experiences with THH and sublingual DMT. Thank you for sharing your findings with us.

If you are ever able to, I would highly encourage you to grow cacti. Many people grow them in containers and bring them indoors in the winter. Many of us who grow them can attest that they are beautiful plants, and have a unique "character" or "personality" all their own. And when you grow and make your own tea, then you can really begin to hone in on the powerful specimens and cultivate the ones that are most rewarding to grow.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I will continue to follow this thread to see what other nuggets you and others share.