HPPD or flashbacks from hallucinogens?

[anrchy]

So I have always been curious about this subject, as there is next to nothing known about it. No known causes, mode of action, and no cures whatsoever. There has been reports of certain medications helping reduce the symptoms and there has been reports of the symptoms eventually going away, however this is extremely rare and unverifiable.

You can only be diagnosed with HPPD after having used hallucinogens. I have yet to hear of anyone experiencing flashbacks or HPPD from DMT use. I have read more than a few threads where nexus members write about occurrences that seem like one of these conditions.

So if you have ever experienced something that could be considered a flashback or if you have persistent hallucinations while not on any drugs please choose yes.

If you are not sure choose possibly.

If you definitely have not had any visual distortions of any kind that are abnormal choose no.

HPPD/flashback symptoms could be:

Halos around objects/people

Auras around objects/people

Visual distortions like grainy vision or color shifting. Object orientation, depth distortions.

Difficulty in determining colors (not like color blindness)

Movement in otherwise static environment.

Moving shadows when there should not be. Often in peripheral vision.

Please be truthful and please participate even if your choice is no.

 

[rjb]

Halos (or auras) around objects/people
Movement in otherwise static environment.

Yes, please :d Both are more like of an improvement to life, more like an extension, rather than a disease or something. At least that's how it feels to me.

I don't have those all the time though, so they're not permanent in the sense that everything is constantly haloing or moving. They manifest during moments of relaxation, when I take a break from something like work or when smoking weed.

The movement of objects is not linear, it's more like of a liquid movement. The object remains in the same place, but it just seems to somehow flow continuously into itself. Very hard to explain and very weird, but fascinating nonetheless. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about, or at least I'm guessing this should be happening pretty often with mushrooms. The movement doesn't manifest in everything though, just in some patterns or textures that I happen to be looking at.

Now about the halos, I don't know if what happens to me falls into that category, but I'll share anyway because this is such a nice addition to this space suit. What happened for me is, my color spectrum increased in a way. That's the closest I can describe. I seem to be able to perceive more subtle colors than before. A good example would be with sun rays. Before, all I was seeing was those thin white lines when sun light was coming through the trees, for example. Now, I seem to be able to perceive various shades of color (reds, greens, purples, etc) in those rays. This applies to everything, including my living room light. If it's just slightly yellow, my vision picks it up immediately and amplifies it if I'm focusing on seeing what color the light is. This is what I call the rainbow effect.

 

[anrchy]

Thats very interesting. My experience has been that I see shadow "people" walking/moving around from my peripherals and I will turn my attention to see what it is and nothing will be there. I'm starting to theorize that this occurs more often when I am alone. Or it may simply be that my sense's are more sensitive while I'm by myself due to the fact I have no other distractions.

Also, with things that are lit up, like the indicators on your dash in your car (check engine light for example) sometimes it will "go out" from my vision and will randomly appear to turn back on causin me to look at it although it hasn't ever turned off.

I have also seen things non directly a few times that we're definitely not there. Only for a split second and I can never be allowed to focus on it. Strange simple shapes made of light floating in the air a few ft off the ground.

I think this topic is one that isn't visited enough. It's not very well documented, and most people who have received "additions" to their vision from things like LSD and mushrooms, almost never seek a doctor or announce it publicly.

The more we learn about these things the better. Especially since almost all of us here on this forum alone have accepted these extensions of life into our lives. Thank you for sharing your experience.

I urge everyone to participate.

 

[endlessness]

There are a few important questions in this whole HPPD subject.

How much of it is actually just "strong associative memory" (like can happen without drugs if you hear a music from a certain time of your life and are 'transported back', or other stimulus associated specially with important events of your life)?

Is it possible other drugs (legal or not) were actually the culprits psychedelics just made you realize it?

Is it possible its not HPPD but rather normal perceptual phenomenons that we are not usually aware of but that psychedelics makes us aware?

Can and should it be called hppD in the cases it doesn't affect one's life negatively (therefore not a 'disorder')?

I think too many people are very quick to self-diagnose and blame one or another factor without considering all the possible variables involved, and all this self-diagnosis is actually a disservice to accurate information.

I dont mean to say HPPD doesnt exist, but I do think its one of these categories that have fallen in people's vocabulary so people start self-diagnosing and spreading this concept around.

Also, in here is a scientific publication regarding HPPD

 

[anrchy]

I think too many people are very quick to self-diagnose and blame one or another factor without considering all the possible variables involved, and all this self-diagnosis is actually a disservice to accurate information.

I dont mean to say HPPD doesnt exist, but I do think its one of these categories that have fallen in people's vocabulary so people start self-diagnosing and spreading this concept around.

All very good questions indeed end. Thank you for the added input. I agree, unless more is known about this "condition" you can't really say what you are experiencing, or what chemical to blame. Except that HPPD itself is focused on visual distortions caused by "hallucinogens" any other non-hallucinogen chemical causing such things would be called something else.

Thats why I put "Have you exp. any flashbacks or possible HPPD symptoms?" as the poll question. I'm not asking people to self diagnose, just want to hear how many people have symptoms that could possibly be diagnosed as HPPD or flashbacks. Not that, that is the definitive diagnoses.

We can agree that it isnt normal "born into" visual behavior. Unless you have lived with it all your life. It's obvious that psychedelics play a role in this visual behavior, and as a part of the actual diagnosis there has to be atleast some psychedelic use before the visions have started.

How much of it is actually just "strong associative memory" (like can happen without drugs if you hear a music from a certain time of your life and are 'transported back', or other stimulus associated specially with important events of your life)?

This I believe is more a question of is this a mode of action for HPPD. If you are still hallucinating visually everyday long after having taken LSD, then your hallucinations are persisting, which is a change in your perception, and hence a disorder. So possibly what your suggesting could be a route that is part of the condition.

Can and should it be called hppD in the cases it doesn't affect one's life negatively (therefore not a 'disorder')?

It's name, Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder, does not suggest that the symptoms caused are negative. Just that they are not of regular system functions.

dis·or·der
   [dis-awr-der] Show IPA
noun
1. lack of order or regular arrangement; confusion: Your room is in utter disorder.
2. an irregularity: a disorder in legal proceedings.
3. breach of order; disorderly conduct; public disturbance.
4. a disturbance in physical or mental health or functions; malady or dysfunction: a mild stomach disorder.

To strictly meet these criteria, an individual must
display several attributes. First, hallucinogen use must
precede the syndrome; if an individual has pre-existing
perceptual symptoms that persist and/or evolve after
hallucinogen intoxication, a diagnosis of HPPD is not
justified. Moreover, DSM-IV suggests in its text that
HPPD persists ‘‘long after the use of hallucinogens has
stopped’’ (p. 313). Thus, symptoms lasting only days
after hallucinogen ingestion are presumably insufficient
to represent HPPD.

 

[Sky Motion]

Voted yes,

I always have visual distortion.

 

[VoidTraveler]

Can and should it be called hppD in the cases it doesn't affect one's life negatively (therefore not a 'disorder')?

It's name, Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder, does not suggest that the symptoms caused are negative. Just that they are not of regular system functions.

dis·or·der
   [dis-awr-der] Show IPA
noun
1. lack of order or regular arrangement; confusion: Your room is in utter disorder.
2. an irregularity: a disorder in legal proceedings.
3. breach of order; disorderly conduct; public disturbance.
4. a disturbance in physical or mental health or functions; malady or dysfunction: a mild stomach disorder.

To strictly meet these criteria, an individual must
display several attributes. First, hallucinogen use must
precede the syndrome; if an individual has pre-existing
perceptual symptoms that persist and/or evolve after
hallucinogen intoxication, a diagnosis of HPPD is not
justified. Moreover, DSM-IV suggests in its text that
HPPD persists ‘‘long after the use of hallucinogens has
stopped’’ (p. 313). Thus, symptoms lasting only days
after hallucinogen ingestion are presumably insufficient
to represent HPPD.

That still does not answer the question whether it is a disorder or not. A popular hypothesis on hallucinogens is that they act by lowering the natural filters in our brain. These filters are there to reduce the amount of information our brains have to process. So unless an object is suddenly moving or changing in any other way while only seen from the corner of one's eye, they won't see.

Psychedelics could permanently decrease or perhaps fine-tune these filters. It has been demonstrated that various natural occurring psychedelic, such as mushrooms, will leave people more open minded and giving them a more positive sense of well being. Being open-minded is a rather unusual trait in people's personality. There are various degrees in how open-minded people are and changing that is very difficult. It takes life changing events for that to happen. Psychedelics make that happen and perhaps how open-minded people are is one such filter. Becoming more open-minded is a longer lasting side-effect of the use of hallucinogens. Technically it could be considered part of HPPD as it is a change in the person's perception, but I wouldn't necessarily do so.

It's difficult to say whether or not what people consider HPPD is just a filter that's tuned a bit too low or really a disorder. We need more research on this subject, but I think that more research on the action mechanism of psychedelics alone will result into more insights into HPPD.

 

[Sky Motion]

To chime in on that ^ I think that the filters are just lowered a TINY LITTLE BIT permanently. Some may say that your third eye or crown chakra's have been "opened?" more but I'm not so sure I believe in that, yet.

 

[Jin]

this is only a theory and an opinion by me , so i cant cite any evidence for this ...i
however i believe Hppd or flashbacks has nothing to do with psychadelics

ever since i was a child i saw a few bacteria like dna like strands transparent in colour floating around in the air whenever i looked into the bright light of the day sky , everytime i would concentrate on the pattern , it would just start floating away from my vision (same goes for hppd visions - if you concentrate and look into and through them they dissapper) , however if i blink my eyes the pattern would reappear and apparently on the same very spot i see it everytime

the led me to conclude that patterns are exhibited on particular spots in our vision - yes i am talking about the blind spot , there is a spot on each of our eyes where the nerve passes through the visual apparatus , there are no rods or cones in this area for vision, our brain naturally fills these areas with the background colour thus keeping there prescence almost unknown to us , so there is a part of our vision that is never seen mostly but made up by the brain , like a fill in the blank

i believe psychadelics help us realize it in more detail and accuracy making us more aware of these spots which are one on each eye , thus after psychadelics the brain tends to slow down or stop filling these areas with background colour allowing the human being to see these spots more clearly and be aware of them , however this creates problems for the individual who is used to the fill in blank mechanism of the brain , thus Hppd is not a disease but a phenomenon of the human visual system ,

also hppd is a result of having two eyes which let us view this world in spectacular 3d , since if you look out of one eye the world will appear 2d ( many artists already know this ) , it is the same geometric position of our eyes and visual system which cause hppd and also let us see the world in 3d , remember that birds , bees , and fish see very differently from us

it can easily be ignored like everything else if you want to , like we age everday and are continously dying with each and every breath we take however some of us can totally ignore it , our planet is becoming a dump and we are already ignoring it , health , obesity and other diseases are plaguing the human populace however we are masters of ignoring , so if anyone who i having problems with Hppd i tell to you -- ignore it don't be bothered by it , it is natural , everyone has Hppd even those who don't take psychadelics , only those who don't do psychadelics tend to be in a better position to ignore this phenomenon as their brains fill in the blank mechanism works really good ,


for those suffering with hppd - the easiest solution is to ignore it and keep doing your work and enjoying life , i have had subtle to strong forms of hppd all my life and i can say that hppd does not always show up , when i am working , having fun , or doing anything its like i have no hppd , only when i sit around just thinking or worrying unnecessarily hppd shows up , its like hppd can easily be cured by simple ignorance its only when you know thats the difficult part

remember ignorance is bliss - if you're totally ignorant of death you shall be free from fear , if you're ignorant about hppd chances are you'll improve rapidly , ignorance can help sometimes atleast that is it with Hppd

its like Hppd can be controlled on command if you're good at it , also do you know how to shift between the bulls eye , what i mean is that generally people use one of there eyes as the leading eye and the other eye follows , in aiming , shooting , archery - its always recommended you look out of your leading eye , i've noticed since that one can shift his leading eye with practice(difficult not really very easy to do however once you know how to do this its extremely easy and cool - you can literally shift between mindstates on commands , i am ambidextrous so maybe that has something to do with it was well ) ,

 

[anrchy]

this is only a theory and an opinion by me , so i cant cite any evidence for this ...i
however i believe Hppd or flashbacks has nothing to do with psychadelics

ever since i was a child i saw a few bacteria like dna like strands transparent in colour floating around in the air whenever i looked into the bright light of the day sky , everytime i would concentrate on the pattern , it would just start floating away from my vision (same goes for hppd visions - if you concentrate and look into and through them they dissapper) , however if i blink my eyes the pattern would reappear and apparently on the same very spot i see it everytime

Jin, those are called floaters, just things in your eye. Almost everyone see's that. Including me.

Floater - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[anrchy]

That still does not answer the question whether it is a disorder or not. A popular hypothesis on hallucinogens is that they act by lowering the natural filters in our brain. These filters are there to reduce the amount of information our brains have to process. So unless an object is suddenly moving or changing in any other way while only seen from the corner of one's eye, they won't see.

It doesn't? If that is indeed how psychedelics work, then that would mean if your filters are "lowered" a little bit that would be a disorder, because it isnt normally in that position.

Your stomach is not suppose to hurt, when it does, its a disorder. Disorder doesnt mean mentally insane or incompacitated in any way. Just simply means that things are not as they were. That they are not working as once intended. Right?

 

[VoidTraveler]

That still does not answer the question whether it is a disorder or not. A popular hypothesis on hallucinogens is that they act by lowering the natural filters in our brain. These filters are there to reduce the amount of information our brains have to process. So unless an object is suddenly moving or changing in any other way while only seen from the corner of one's eye, they won't see.

It doesn't? If that is indeed how psychedelics work, then that would mean if your filters are "lowered" a little bit that would be a disorder, because it isnt normally in that position.

Your stomach is not suppose to hurt, when it does, its a disorder. Disorder doesnt mean mentally insane or incompacitated in any way. Just simply means that things are not as they were. That they are not working as once intended. Right?

But that brings on more questions. What is the correct level of filtering? Were they working properly in the first place? A stomach is indeed not supposed to hurt, but when it hurts it can mean a whole variety of things. It could mean you're hungry, or you ate something wrong, or perhaps your heart is broken or you're have diarrhea. The is no short conclusion to this topic because we know so little about these subjects.

I'm not claiming HPPD is fake, doesn't exist or is very real. I'm only presenting an alternative view on the subject. Yes, I'm inclined to say that when you see breathing walls or dancing patterns long after the effects of your psychedelic of choice have worn off that something might be up. However, since we know so little about this subject it's really difficult to already jump to the conclusion that it must be HPPD.

And yes, the impact of the effects are a crucial part of identifying if something is a disorder. Remember that each of us interprets reality in a different way. For many psychonauts the effects we're talking about don't really form an issue. I have a permanent change in how my skin feels. After a high dose of mushrooms it tingles ever since. While it's different than what it used to be it is normal for me now. But is it be a disorder?

 

[Global]

Your stomach is not suppose to hurt, when it does, its a disorder. Disorder doesnt mean mentally insane or incompacitated in any way. Just simply means that things are not as they were. That they are not working as once intended. Right?

The word disorder carries with it a negative connotation. The definition that you chose clarifies itself using the terms "malady" and "dysfunction". I think it should be clear that these words carry with them negative connotations.

Definition of MALADY
1
: a disease or disorder of the animal body
2
: an unwholesome or disordered condition

dys·func·tion
noun \(ˌ)dis-ˈfəŋ(k)-shən\
Definition of DYSFUNCTION
1
: impaired or abnormal functioning <gastrointestinal dysfunction>
2
: abnormal or unhealthy interpersonal behavior or interaction within a group <family dysfunction>

Let's take a look at the synonyms of "disorder" offered by Merriam-Webster:

confuse, derange, disarrange, disarray, discompose, dishevel, disjoint, dislocate, disorganize, disrupt, disturb, hash, jumble, mess (up), mix (up), muddle, muss, rumple, scramble, shuffle, tousle, tumble, upset

In any manner, I think the word "complex" would be a good substitute for "disorder" in HPPD. I think you can see that it's more neutral and potentially more accurate.

 

[Fur Beach]

My HPPD has been getting way better ever since I started taking multivitamins twice a day (and cutting down on the ganj just a little). I read somewhere that fish oil also helps even out brain chemisty for flashbacks/hppd. Can Anyone else confirm this?

 

[anrchy]

well we may be in disagreement on semantics, that isnt really the point. However something that is irregular, abnormal, impaired does not directly mean negative. it is negative if it effects you negatively, the meaning of the word does not impose that on you if you dont see it as a bad thing, so that really doesnt matter at all whether someone thinks the words meaning is negative, it all depends on the person and the experience.

It would be a negative thing to me if I were to have any severe versions of this disorder. Some may like it.

In any manner, I think the word "complex" would be a good substitute for "disorder" in HPPD. I think you can see that it's more neutral and potentially more accurate.

Well using your methods...

Main Entry: complex
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: psychological problem
Synonyms: a thing about something, anxiety, exaggerated reaction, fear, fixation, fixed idea, hang-up, idée fixe, insanity, mania, neurosis, obsession, phobia, preoccupation, repression

ALL of the synonyms of complex are rather negative dont you think?