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I have a question about unusually large doses of DMT.

Migrated topic.
Seeing as how there have been reported deaths then yes I can say, with accuracy, that they are bad for you. I'm not saying take them and YOU WILL DIE, but the reason he posted this was to learn about the risks of these things in high doses, and that is all I have done. This is not opinion based at all. That's like saying that percs aren't bad for you because they have medical uses. I can list ways they can help your body just as you have for MAOI, but that doesn't take away the fact that they can do harm. Then next time I will be sure to use it.
 
My "nonsense" comes from facts, and I'm pretty sure I've been pretty clear and it all makes sense. If anything was unclear just say it and I would be happy to clear it up. If you can prove to me that they are 100% safe for you then I will retract all of my statements. This of course will not happen cause regardless of what you say I have read numerous reports about deaths from aya where the cause of death was specifically listed as the involvement of the MAOI.
 
It's pretty well documented that there are specific contraindicated foods and medications when taking MAOI's, and that serotonin syndrome can occur when this is ignored. I don't know of any research or even anecdotal information suggesting that they are otherwise inherently "bad for you", but feel free to cite a credible source.

۩ said:
anti tumor...
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Anti-tumor??? I'll need a credible source for that one as well.

There are dangers involved with what we do. No one should undertake the use of any heavy psychedelic and ever assume otherwise. But the dangers can be mitigated by becoming informed (and rejecting misinformation...), and approaching their use with maturity and reasonable attention to set and setting.
 
The beta-carboline alkaloids present in medicinal plants, such as Peganum harmala and Eurycoma longifolia, have recently drawn attention due to their antitumor activities. Further mechanistic studies indicate that beta-carboline derivatives inhibit DNA topoisomerases and interfere with DNA synthesis.

Peganum harmala as well as harmine exhibit cytotoxicity with regards to HL60 and K562 leukemia cell lines.[28] Ground Peganum harmala seeds have been used occasionally to treat skin cancer and subcutaneous cancers traditionally in Morocco.[29] Seed extracts also show effectiveness against various tumor cell lines both in vitro and in vivo.[29]
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And they are antioxidant and antimutagenic.

en.wikipedia.org

Peganum harmala - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


endlessness has a post on here about a man who ate about a pound of syrian rue. That is over 100x the amount a human should take. He survived the ordeal.
 
Uncle Knucles - Those are the dangers I am referring to. I'm using "bad for you" only in the sense that they are not 100% safe, and are stopping your body from performing a natural function. I don't want it mistaken that I believe we shouldn't use them in the process. I am just saying that if you are using them then you should at least know there is some danger involved, and what those dangers are. The MAOI in itself is not the danger.

Christian - I believe I know the report you are referring to. I wasn't referencing that one. That one they do list the death as nicotine overdose and not the MAOI
 
۩ said:
The beta-carboline alkaloids present in medicinal plants, such as Peganum harmala and Eurycoma longifolia, have recently drawn attention due to their antitumor activities. Further mechanistic studies indicate that beta-carboline derivatives inhibit DNA topoisomerases and interfere with DNA synthesis.

Peganum harmala as well as harmine exhibit cytotoxicity with regards to HL60 and K562 leukemia cell lines.[28] Ground Peganum harmala seeds have been used occasionally to treat skin cancer and subcutaneous cancers traditionally in Morocco.[29] Seed extracts also show effectiveness against various tumor cell lines both in vitro and in vivo.[29]

And they are antioxidant and antimutagenic.

en.wikipedia.org

Peganum harmala - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Well, Okay then. I've learned something new.
 
yeah the whole food restriction thing was made up by white people who did not understand at the time what a RIMA was. They knew ayahuasca contained MAOI's but did not understand the difference between maoA and B..tyramine is broken down by the maoB enzyme. I have tested this many times by eating tyramine while on large doses of harmalas without any problems. One must be careful with stimulants and other psychactive drugs/medication though.

Beta carbolines seem to have many medicinal uses. Like mentioned above they are of interest for certain cancers and tumors..back in the 20's harmine was used widely as a medication for parkinsons disease, but companies were unable to patent it and so it became obsolete as a treatment for parkinsons disease. Harmine and harmaline have also been shown to be effective against certain bacteria/parasites and viruses and have weak anti biotic potential.
 
Dream2Awaken said:
Uncle Knucles - Those are the dangers I am referring to. I'm using "bad for you" only in the sense that they are not 100% safe, and are stopping your body from performing a natural function. I don't want it mistaken that I believe we shouldn't use them in the process. I am just saying that if you are using them then you should at least know there is some danger involved, and what those dangers are. The MAOI in itself is not the danger.

Christian - I believe I know the report you are referring to. I wasn't referencing that one. That one they do list the death as nicotine overdose and not the MAOI
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I highly doubt that anyone anywhere had died directly from ingesting a RIMA. RIMA's are a group of alkaloids that are only temporary inhibitors of MAO..and in the context referred to here on this site unless otherwise stated we are taking specifically about the beta-carboline class of indole alkaloids. Harmine, harmaline and THH are the most common ones and are what you will find present in ayahuasca and harmala seeds. If anyone is listing MAOI as a the cause of death in realtion to ayahuasca ingestion I think that is misleading. Ayahuasca contains only beta-carboline RIMA's and they are not toxic to the human body. The likely case is that the death was due to a deadly interaction between beta-carbolines and some other drug that was either present in the brew or that the person was taking. I think I know of the report you are referring to and it was infact the case that the death was due to an interaction. I might be thinking of another case but I do seem to remember someone overdosing on cocaine that they added to ayahuasca, and another person overdosing on 5meoDMT when combined in a large ammount with beta-carbolines.

I hate calling beta-carbolines MAOI's becasue it creates confusion. They are beta carbolines first IMO and the maoi function is a secondary effect. This specific group of indoles seems to have psychoactive effects that manifest below the level of inhibition required to render something like DMT orally active. I know this from very extensive experimentation with them. At higher doses they are psychedelics by themselves and again, I feel this is not just due to the inhibition of mono amine oxidase. Beta carbolines seem IMO, to have effects of they're own that have nothing to do with inhibition of MAO. I wish people would just refer to the harmala's as beta-carbolines and make the distincion between this family of chemicals and just "MAOI's", which is a title that can be given to a whole range of diverse chemicals. They are definatily MAOI's but only a subclass of them that dont have the same pharmacological profiles as many other MAOI's.

It is true that when dealing with some MAOI's dietary precautions must be taken. But these alkaloids are very different from the specific beta-carbolines that are almost always being discussed here when the term "MAOI" comes up.
 
fractal enchantment said:
Dream2Awaken said:
Uncle Knucles - Those are the dangers I am referring to. I'm using "bad for you" only in the sense that they are not 100% safe, and are stopping your body from performing a natural function. I don't want it mistaken that I believe we shouldn't use them in the process. I am just saying that if you are using them then you should at least know there is some danger involved, and what those dangers are. The MAOI in itself is not the danger.

Christian - I believe I know the report you are referring to. I wasn't referencing that one. That one they do list the death as nicotine overdose and not the MAOI
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that anyone anywhere had died directly from ingesting a RIMA. RIMA's are a group of alkaloids that are only temporary inhibitors of MAO..and in the context referred to here on this site unless otherwise stated we are taking specifically about the beta-carboline class of indole alkaloids. Harmine, harmaline and THH are the most common ones and are what you will find present in ayahuasca and harmala seeds. If anyone is listing MAOI as a the cause of death in realtion to ayahuasca ingestion I think that is misleading. Ayahuasca contains only beta-carboline RIMA's and they are not toxic to the human body. The likely case is that the death was due to a deadly interaction between beta-carbolines and some other drug that was either present in the brew or that the person was taking. I think I know of the report you are referring to and it was infact the case that the death was due to an interaction. I might be thinking of another case but I do seem to remember someone overdosing on cocaine that they added to ayahuasca, and another person overdosing on 5meoDMT when combined in a large ammount with beta-carbolines.

I hate calling beta-carbolines MAOI's becasue it creates confusion. They are beta carbolines first IMO and the maoi function is a secondary effect. This specific group of indoles seems to have psychoactive effects that manifest below the level of inhibition required to render something like DMT orally active. I know this from very extensive experimentation with them. At higher doses they are psychedelics by themselves and again, I feel this is not just due to the inhibition of mono amine oxidase. Beta carbolines seem IMO, to have effects of they're own that have nothing to do with inhibition of MAO. I wish people would just refer to the harmala's as beta-carbolines and make the distincion between this family of chemicals and just "MAOI's", which is a title that can be given to a whole range of diverse chemicals. They are definatily MAOI's but only a subclass of them that dont have the same pharmacological profiles as many other MAOI's.

It is true that when dealing with some MAOI's dietary precautions must be taken. But these alkaloids are very different from the specific beta-carbolines that are almost always being discussed here when the term "MAOI" comes up.
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Fractal/Moderators/The Traveler is it possible we could maybe add this information to the FAQ?
 
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