I have lost my purspose in life because of DMT

[spx001]

Dear DMT users,
I am writing here to clear my thoughts. I have read a lot about DMT, mainly other people's experiences but also scientific articles. My problem is that I have lost my purpose in life because of DMT. Since my student years, I have believed in the afterlife, astral projection, higher self, karma, in God... But it turns out that what I thought was parapsychology could just be a "trip" caused by the natural occurrence of DMT in the brain. Most DMT experiences closely resemble astral projection, near-death experiences, communication with angelic beings, etc. So everything that I believed in and gave me strength and hope is suddenly gone. I am writing here because I do not have any real experience with DMT. I am curious to hear the opinion of an experienced DMT user - what do you think about it?

 

[Nydex]

Hi @spx001

First of all, let me say I feel nothing but compassion reading this. I've been through a similar experience in my past, though not because of psychedelics. I know it can be a difficult situation, and I know how heavy a burden it can feel.

I am not particularly experienced with DMT, so I can't say much from my own experiences with it. When you say you don't have any real experience with DMT, do you mean you've never ingested DMT in any form before, and this whole emotional instability you're experiencing stems from just reading and hearing other people's experiences and the science around it?

I know what it feels to have some firm belief of yours shattered, almost as if the carpet gets pulled from right underneath you. I see experiences like that as a learning process. As with most profound learning processes, something needs to go before something new can come in and settle. Perhaps your beliefs getting shattered is precisely what the universe needs you to experience, so you can be open to new ideas, new ways of looking at life, and as a result - a new way of experiencing all this magic.

If there's one thing I've noticed a lot of the people that are experienced with DMT say, it's that in the end, you are left with the realization that you really don't know anything at all. To extrapolate this, one might say that the point of the whole thing is that you're not meant to "know" everything, and that your belief system should be like a river, a flux, a neverending stream of amorphous energy. Old things settle out, and new things come in, all the time. It's an evolutionary process. And yes, it might feel scary or debilitating, but you have the power inside you to face it, to accept it, and to make the best of it.

It's a peculiar thing, life...No matter how long you live it, you never really understand it all. Only pieces of it. And perhaps that's how it should be. Perhaps an all-encompassing omniscience would devalue the mystery of life itself.

Don't be afraid. All things in this unverse seem to ebb and flow. Good things will come to you. And you being here is just the beginning.

Love & Light

 

[Voidmatrix]

They say it could be just a trip, but whose to say they are correct. No one knows the true nature of psychedelics, especially DMT, the drug action is simply what can be observed. That doesn't mean that's all there is.

One love

Edit: We're also meaning making creatures. If you've really lost something, then that's space to find something new that's meaningful and fulfilling.

 

[Sicho Naut]

If I read into your post correctly, you seem to say that because certain phenomena or experiences (e.g. NDE, visions of angelic beings etc.) are theoretically reducible to brain states, that they are therefore meaningless. There are two things I'd like to touch upon w/r/t this:

-I would invite you to consider that experience has its own validity, no matter what cause is attributed to it. For instance, parental love for a child can be reduced to things like brain chemistry, but I can tell you that this does not make a dent in the profound love I feel for my kid. The same IMO goes for other experiences. Psychedelics are often profound; that they can be theoretically explained away as 'mere brain chemistry' hardly changes the profundity of the actual experience, nor should it for things like NDE's, etc. Perhaps you could try to make a shift from 'thinking the world' to 'experiencing the world', and let experience speak for itself (i.e. not reduce it to a conceptual model).

-Secondly, I would invite you to question the materialist assumption in your post. Implicit in what you write is the notion that experience is 'epiphenomenal', that it arises from a pre-existing world of matter. E.g., chemicals in the brain underlie whatever experience you are having: first a material 'brain', then experience. This is not the only viewpoint available and many theoretical critiques can be leveled at such a materialist view on life.

For instance, the philosopher Bernardo Kastrup suggests that not matter but 'experience' or 'consciousness' is fundamental and that materialism is a mere theoretical hypothesis that attempts to account for certain things, such as the shared intuition that we live in the same world. To him, there is a merely correlative rather than causal relationship between brain and experience: subjective experience is the 'internal' perspective, whereas the brain state is an 'external' perspective on subjective experience, as seen from the outside. In other words, experience is not reduced to brain state despite there being an undeniable correlation between brain states and experiences.

Anyway, it is not my goal to convince you of a philosophical doctrine or start a debate here, but I believe you might benefit from looking into his work because it explicitly addresses the sense of meaninglessness that materialist metaphysics tend to induce in people (whether they are aware of it or not). He has a long interview on YouTube that is a good intro to his work, if you are interested: Here

 

[FlagellaStink]

Well, there are two things I'd like to say.

First, it's actually quite unlikely that DMT plays a prominent role in the human brain. DMT levels have only been found in exceedingly small amounts in humans, so scientifically speaking, it's more likely than not that it doesn't serve any psychoactive purpose.

Secondly, even if it does explain spiritual experiences, and they are just 'trips', why should it discount your beliefs? Many begin to believe in the afterlife, God, etc. after taking DMT when before they were atheists. Nobody knows why DMT does what it does, and theory certainly shouldn't discredit what you believe. Trips are very spiritual experiences, so if anything, psychedelics would empower your belief in something otherworldly. I find it almost funny that you say you've lost your purpose because of DMT, because it's the most fascinating, accessible, and potent spiritual experience there is.

Just because DMT is a chemical compound doesn't make the spiritual experience any less real, in fact, I would argue it makes it even more real.

 

[DaDOrg]

If life without the next level can generate something as marvellous as the dmt trip, perhaps 'just life' is pretty magickal after all.... idk. maybe it's time to get based and blue pilled...

 

[Sabnock1990]

Just because it may be chemically-induced, doesn't mean it's not real, it's helping to give us access to such things, the brain is not wired to operate like that in the day to day and so the brain filters out a lot of things for a so called "stable" day to day state of consciousness, thing is though, our day to day state is by no means all that exists, there's plenty outside of it, and by using certain compounds or by undergoing certain practices (like perhaps meditation/yoga) one can induce or gain access to these non-ordinary states of consciousness/being. It being induced by chemical means says nothing to the very real content that can be there.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Well, there are two things I'd like to say.

First, it's actually quite unlikely that DMT plays a prominent role in the human brain. DMT levels have only been found in exceedingly small amounts in humans, so scientifically speaking, it's more likely than not that it doesn't serve any psychoactive purpose.

I wouldn't go that far, sure it's in small amounts normally, but what about during highly stressful events in which the body naturally/normally spurts out say some Adrenaline or Endorphins or something? DMT is a trace amine, and like hormones for example, is likely only to be released given a certain context, so my line of thinking on that is that DMT wouldn't be released by the body in a larger amount unless something stimulates it's production, like a highly stressful event like death or near death or perhaps hardcore terror or something, idk. But i don't believe it doesn't serve a purpose, it's clearly there for a reason imo.

Also it's worth keeping in mind that quite a few things are involved in endogenous DMT production, like SAM-E for example which is required for methylation by INMT (supposedly) to convert Tryptamine into N-Methyltryptamine and then into DMT, however SAM-E is produced by the body from Folate and B12, and based on what i've figured out lately, Folic Acid sucks and is likely poison (and people should use Methylfolate instead, imo/ime) and people are likely really deficient in Folate and B12, and if they're low in those things and thus low in SAM-E one can also be low in DMT, so if one were wanting more endogenous DMT production for example, one would need to give the body the precursors to make it. Also Tryptamine isn't orally active, unless MAO-A is inhibited, so if you consume Tryptophan normally only a little bit would turn into Tryptamine in the gut, but if you take Harmalas to inhibit gut MAO-A and then an hour later consume Tryptophan, with the aid of P5P B6 via the AADC enzyme Tryptophan turns into Tryptamine and is orally active, from there, how it gets turned into NMT and DMT, idk, but is speculated to be via INMT using SAM-E as a co-factor, which again, no Folate/B12, no SAM-E. I hope they figure out more in the time to come on endo-DMT though, because it's more than possible imo to raise the levels and have it more accessible.

 

[spx001]

I once found an article on the internet. It was a scientific article about DMT and its natural occurrence in the human body. It included records, human measurements, and other "scientific proven" information. I'm sorry, but I didn't keep the link - it's been a few years. In case of critical/stressful situations (NDEs, for example) a small dose of DMT is released in the brain. Given the common nature of DMT experiences - a sense of separation from the body, the presence of higher entities (God), a journey to the light etc., scientists conclude that paranormal phenomena such as astral projection, NDEs, and others are just a "trip" of our brain. An inner experience scientifically proven. While the listed paranormal phenomena have not been scientifically confirmed to this day.

What if that's really the case? What if there's nothing after death. Just the end - like when you are put to sleep before an operation, but you don't wake up again. Maybe for 40 years I've believed in something that isn't.

 

[Varallo]

Don’t worry there is no proof of dmt in your brain, it was suggested by Rick Strassman in the 2000 and has been found in rats brains. Also to suggest there is a place in your body where you hold a significant amount of dmt is just not true.

To be short don’t worry about it, you just had a revelation that all this quackery is just that, quackery. I think you should focus on why this is such an issue. I think by viewing and experiencing the world without the quackery you are giving yourself a chance to really understand and see the world and your place in it for the beauty it has.

 

[Sicho Naut]

What if that's really the case? What if there's nothing after death.

Then you won't be there to experience this nothingness, so it should be no concern of yours

Also, why is something transient less meaningful than something going on forever? What is so meaningful about continuing to exist, eternally? Do you enjoy a song less because it has limited duration, or might that very finitude be essential to the value of music?

 

[spx001]

Also, why is something transient less meaningful than something going on forever? What is so meaningful about continuing to exist, eternally? Do you enjoy a song less because it has limited duration, or might that very finitude be essential to the value of music?

What would be the meaning of life if it ended with death? What would be the point of living a virtuous life on the edge of poverty as opposed to a life of wealth based on the suffering of others?

I see you're quoting Buddhists. But what if the Buddha was wrong? He could live in the palace in luxury. He could have any woman, any medical treatment, heat, food. He would probably be upset if he knew that there was nothing after death and that he had sat under a tree in vain.

 

[Jees]

...could just be a "trip" caused by...

Hi spx001

Feels like you're torn between the lived experience plus adhering (metaphysical) interpretations of it, and the seemingly raw material mechanics of how the experience came forth.
E.g.: "Did I just drove happily to a long awaited party, or was it all just cogs and gears in my car pushing me from A to B due sparks in my neuron system?"
I think they are not mutual exclusive and all being sides of a multi faceted coin, but the need for an elemental purpose urges us easily to define a one particular aspect as such.
Recalling Cypher in The Matrix, he choose for having a "purpose" within the matrix above all.

Also interesting to check if your/the former and now challenged 'purpose' was really worth the label, I bet it's full of slippery grounds too.
Personally I feel certainly motivated by having a-purpose but it became a mere flexible thing like most if not all in nature.

The original post question touches deep musings(*) from big-thinkers about duality/materialism vs non-duality.
Your former trust in purpose was mainly in the non dual field imho. Then comes duality messing that up, screwing it down as it seems.
It is an existential issue, you're experiencing and posting here
Does dmt solves this, shed light on it?
Maybe too much light so the issue gets more boot in the face, better noticed, but not solved AFAICT.

(*) I have reservations with some things as said though, like a probably statistical true and correct yet limited scope on drugs/addiction..

 

[Subtlevibrations]

@spx001 the other helpful Nexians here have said it well so far; I will keep my message on the shorter side. There is a Bengali parable I am particularly fond of I will share with you now:

Someone enquired of his teacher, “what happens after death? Is there another universe in which we are born? Or is it like waking up from a dream? What will happen at the end of this life?”

His teacher replied: “go to God and ask him about it directly. Suppose you want to know more about Jadu Mallick (a rich person from the time of this parable). Rather than speculating about how many houses he owns, how many acres of land, how much weight in gold, or how many jewels or other niceties; why not simply ask him yourself? If you can get yourself introduced to Jadu, you can ask him directly for yourself how many acres of land he owns and so forth. The main thing is getting introduced to Jadu. In the same way, you have all these questions and speculations - first realize God and he will make you understand what you want to know. “

Another similar parable from the same region I very much enjoy:
“You have come to this garden to eat mangoes. What is the use in calculating how many mango trees there are in the orchard, or how many leaves, or how many mangoes the next harvest will yield? You have come here to eat the mangoes - eat them and be happy.”

Peace
Sv

 

[Old & Jaded]

spx001,

If no one has said it yet, I want to formally say welcome to the Nexus. .

This is a fascinating thread and I thought I'd chime in with a couple thoughts:

1.) This is the polar opposite of my experience. I came to DMT 15 years ago in my 40's as a skeptic reductionist, physicalist and card carrying (I joined groups and attended meetings ) atheist. It took a few breakthroughs but I had a textbook mystical experience. That plus the nature of ongoing DMT and breakthrough experiences has humbled my above referenced attitude. I have no answers. And it is clear we don't know everything that is going on. Some part of us may survive the death of the physical. There may be something we cannot yet measure that alludes to this. I mean about every 20 years quantum cosmology revises it's views on reality and the Universe. As a salient example of this phenomenon I point to dark matter and dark energy which were never even heard of or speculated on when I was a young woman.

2.) And this is more important. Seriously, I strongly encourage you to do a small extraction and smoke some DMT. NOTHING speaks louder than the breaking moment of experience. Nothing is more valid or true. You cannot know until you smoke it and see.

Regardless of where your path takes you, I hope you find what you seek and can embrace some modicum of happiness in this life. I am very glad you signed up.

 

[Voidmatrix]

It may be helpful to adopt a style of thought in which you are less concerned with binaries like right or wrong, and understand that any system we develop to understand reality doesn't match up 100% to reality because we are too limited to be able to truly and ultimately perceive it.

That is, every system we create is a paradigm used to grasp our phenomonology: I see an apple fall, I wonder why, the idea of gravity as something experienced is brought about...

One love

 

[DaDOrg]

life itself is an afterlife. life and death are both evolutionary components. Conciousness being within organism is basically mind occupying a spaceship far beyond our technological ability, with features like sight, taste, mobility, speech. It's quite impressive. And the amnesic reincarnation that life may represent might enable a renewed sense of wonder and discovery for those born to our planet. I don't know why people consider life mundane

 

[brokedownpalace10]

spx001,

Science could study a radio playing music and prove that the music is produced solely due to the electronic currents traveling through the wires and components inside the radio.

************************************************************************************************************************************************************

DMT can indeed help you become familiar with things that are just in your head. I've been doing that and it can be quite useful in your life.
But people often also talk about reaching higher levels... universal love, Tao, the unbearable brightness of being, God... I dunno, I'm not there yet.
Who knows, it might amplify your faith. It might change it. It might amplify and change it.

BTW, IMO, when we die some part of us does die.
Whether as Pandora says, "Some part of us may survive the death of the physical."... I've always believed so. I've yet to have that amplified, diminished, or changed.
However, I've not believed our minds continue fully formed as they are now forever for a long time.
But, that's just me.

 

[spx001]

spx001,

If no one has said it yet, I want to formally say welcome to the Nexus. .

This is a fascinating thread and I thought I'd chime in with a couple thoughts:

1.) This is the polar opposite of my experience. I came to DMT 15 years ago in my 40's as a skeptic reductionist, physicalist and card carrying (I joined groups and attended meetings ) atheist. It took a few breakthroughs but I had a textbook mystical experience. That plus the nature of ongoing DMT and breakthrough experiences has humbled my above referenced attitude. I have no answers. And it is clear we don't know everything that is going on. Some part of us may survive the death of the physical. There may be something we cannot yet measure that alludes to this. I mean about every 20 years quantum cosmology revises it's views on reality and the Universe. As a salient example of this phenomenon I point to dark matter and dark energy which were never even heard of or speculated on when I was a young woman.

2.) And this is more important. Seriously, I strongly encourage you to do a small extraction and smoke some DMT. NOTHING speaks louder than the breaking moment of experience. Nothing is more valid or true. You cannot know until you smoke it and see.

Regardless of where your path takes you, I hope you find what you seek and can embrace some modicum of happiness in this life. I am very glad you signed up.

Dear Pandora,

you write that you had a "textbook mystical experience". Why do you think it was mystical? What if it was just a DMT trip in your head?

I already have DMT (a few dozen milligrams in powder form). I also have a high-temp lighter. But I've never tried it. I am a non-smoker and hot smog always rips my throat (years ago I tried Salvia Divinorum a few times). Irritation then leads to bad trip. That's probably why I won't find the courage to try it.

BTW thank you for welcoming me.

 

[FlagellaStink]

I wouldn't go that far, sure it's in small amounts normally, but what about during highly stressful events in which the body naturally/normally spurts out say some Adrenaline or Endorphins or something?

I hope they figure out more in the time to come on endo-DMT though, because it's more than possible imo to raise the levels and have it more accessible.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think there's enough evidence to make it the most likely answer. Although, the study in rats that found higher levels of endogenous DMT in nenoates was pretty fascinating. Between days 12 and 17 after the rat being born, DMT levels increased quite a bit and then dropped again, I believe something similar was also found in rabbits, as well as raised INMT activity of placenta in many mammals, so I definitely think there's something to it, I just don't think the purpose is necessarily psychoactive, or that it accounts for the majority of mystical experiences that people have without drugs. It might play a role in birth, death, NDE's, etc., but even if that was proven I doubt it'd be the universal cause of all spiritual experiences. If it isn't just a byproduct, the theory about its action against hypoxia could also account for an increase in DMT levels during birth, death, and NDE's, considering there's usually a lack of oxygen in these situations. I really want endogenous DMT to serve some psychoactive role, and definitely think it could, but for the purposes of responding to OP's issue I don't think it's a conclusion that's likely enough to lose your life's purpose over.

Your breakdown of endo-DMT production was very interesting though, I appreciate the input! - wasn't familiar with a lot of that.