I need help identifying if this is Harmine freebase or Harmine HCL

[Chronic303]

I ordered 1gram of Harmine freebase from The same webshop I always order my harmine freebase from. But this time I got white small needle shaped crystals, before I always got brown powder without any crystals. The ziplockbag also has a sticker with the text freebase 1gram on it with a LOTNR and exp date. All my previous orders had the same sticker on them but with a brown powder in them. I'm very scared that they made a mistake at the store and that they mistaked it for Freebase Harmine HCL.
I already used it to make changa with the last 700mg dmt I had left, the harmine crytals didn't dissolve easily in ethanol, it took a good amount of stirring and heating up before it was all disolved. does this sound like maybe Harmine HCL in stead of freebase??? I hope i didn't ruin my changa mixture..

I checked the rules if I could post a picture of it and couldnt find anything about it..so here are 2 pictures of the freebase harmine I got: (if i'm breaking any rules please forgive me)

Pic1

pic2

 

[Chronic303]

edit: I just called the webshop and they checked it out for me and the people there are saying that it is normal and that what I got is correct because it's a natural product it can vary in color and shape. So it's nothing to worry about but I still find it weird because nowhere on the internet can I find harmine freebase in crystal form, every picture shows a brown powder....

 

[endlessness]

Distinguishing freebase harmine from harmine hcl is very easy, just add a bit to water. Does it dissolve very easy? It's hcl. Does it not? It's freebase.. What if it is neither though (more on this below) ?

I cant click the pic link atm (posting pics ok but dont talk about buying extracts or vendor names) but indeed freebase harmalas in crystal form is very unusual. It generally forms very tiny crystals which will look like powder to the naked eye. There is the theoretical possibility they went through the trouble of growing larger crystals with some solvent combination or other crystalization method but it is extremely unlikely

This is why we highly recommend people to extract their own.. Who knows, it is possible the shop mislabelled... Is it even harmalas or something else altogether? Id love to believe people are very careful and ethical but we know vendors have sold fake extracts before, and depending on what other substances they (or their provider) are handling together, a small mislabelling mistake can be very dangerous.

Extracting harmalas is very easy and cheap, you can find all info here in the Nexus.

Lastly, appart from simple solubility test for this specific doubt you had, if you are actually in doubt of the identity of a substance, i highly suggest at least get some reagents (like marquis, mecke etc) and/or tlc kit. More info on the substance testing subforum, check the sticky threads.

Good luck

 

[Mindlusion]

HCl salt also forms bright yellow needles, while the freebase is offwhite/tan

 

[Chronic303]

I went to the local smartshop in my town and asked if they had freebase harmine. luckily they had it in storage for the webshop they run. I asked for a sample and specificly asked for the freebase not the HCL and guess what, it was almost identical to the stuff I got from my order..only a slight difference in color. So this was my comfirmation that I do have freebase crystals..

 

[endlessness]

Hmmmm... I still find it weird... Just because a store sells something similar, it may all come from same distributor, who knows.. Personally I'd like to make sure what I am ingesting is exactly what I think it is, I'd rather test it somehow and/or extract it myself. Do you have UV light or can go somewhere where there is? You can see if it dissolves in water to see if its freebase or in a salt form, and then you can test the water for fluorescence to see if its really harmine.

 

[Chronic303]

HCl salt also forms bright yellow needles, while the freebase is offwhite/tan

based on this I can say that my crystals are not anywhere near yellow. They are more a offwhite/grey collor.

 

[Chronic303]

Hmmmm... I still find it weird... Just because a store sells something similar, it may all come from same distributor, who knows.. Personally I'd like to make sure what I am ingesting is exactly what I think it is, I'd rather test it somehow and/or extract it myself. Do you have UV light or can go somewhere where there is? You can see if it dissolves in water to see if its freebase or in a salt form, and then you can test the water for fluorescence to see if its really harmine.

Hmm, will test this when I get home with water. What can you tell about freebase or HCL disolvment in ethanol?? should HCL also dissolve easy in ethanol?? I had much difficulty disolving the crystals in hot ethanol...

 

[downwardsfromzero]

If you have access to silver nitrate, you can test for the presence of chloride. Silver nitrate forms a white precipitate with chlorides that turns bluish grey on exposure to light.

The HCl will be difficultly soluble in EtOH at best.

Really, use the blacklight to show that you have at least the possibility of it being a harmala alkaloid.

But as Endlessness says, ultimately, extraction is the best way to be more sure of the alkaloid you intend to ingest.

 

[Mindlusion]

and yeah.. the powder will dissolve faster in ethanol because it has higher surface area than the crystals, so its not surprising you needed to heat it a little to get the freebase crystals to dissolve

 

[Chronic303]

I don't have any acces to a blacklight so I decided to do a HCL to freebase conversion using this method:
Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide
I'm gonna start at the step "Freebase the Alkaloid Salts" and see what is gonna happen. I'll report back.

okey never mind, the harmine alkeloids don't even dissolve in water, they just float, sink and lay on the surface of the water.... So one thing is sure now, it's def not HCL.. Now I must make sure that it is really harmine....And for that the only thing I need is a blacklight?? how does that work? I just shine the blacklight onto the freebase crystals to see if they light up??

 

[Mindlusion]

I don't have any acces to a blacklight so I decided to do a HCL to freebase conversion using this method:
Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide
I'm gonna start at the step "Freebase the Alkaloid Salts" and see what is gonna happen. I'll report back.

I thought we just got through saying what you have is freebase.. The freebase won't dissolve in water.

 

[Chronic303]

I don't have any acces to a blacklight so I decided to do a HCL to freebase conversion using this method:
Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide
I'm gonna start at the step "Freebase the Alkaloid Salts" and see what is gonna happen. I'll report back.

I thought we just got through saying what you have is freebase.. The freebase won't dissolve in water.

haha yes, read my post again, I added an edit text. My bad

 

[Chronic303]

Can i just shine the blacklight on the crystals and see if they light up??? Or does it have te be in the water??

 

[Mindlusion]

Can i just shine the blacklight on the crystals and see if they light up??? Or does it have te be in the water??

They do need to be in solution, acidic solutions glow differently

 

[endlessness]

Add a little vinegar or lemon juice to water and add your crystals to dissolve them. Then look at the solution with uv light, normal party uv light works fine. It should shine clearly, you can spread a bit over any surface as if the solution is a paint , and when lights are off and uv is on, you should see it shine like any uv paint.