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I think I surprised my Doctor ..oral use of D. stramonium

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LawnBoy

LawnBoy

Rising Star
So, I've had nausea lately because of a prescribed medication that I take daily. I started taking jimson weed seeds to combat the nausea and it works great. 3-10 seeds completely eliminated minor stomach nausea and malaise, for a solid 4-6 hours. I took my pill the same time I took the seeds and it worked great.

So, went to the doctor for a check up, and told him. His immediate reaction to the word jimson weed, was to shake his his saying "No, No" and immediately starts to pull out his pad to write a prescription. :x He didn't even explain why I shouldn't be taking the seeds. I explained to him the nausea. That I had read that hyoscyamine amounts/percentages were actually pretty standard from seed to seed among D. stramonium. I don't take more than 10 seeds at one time, and I don't consume more than 20 over 24 hours. I had picked the seeds 3-4 years ago from properly identified plants. I've used the seeds on countless occasions. I explained that I indeed understand the dangers of a high dose of hyoscyamine. I didn't not mention any recreational/experimental use.

Despite all this. He still writes me a prescription for hyoscyamine sulfate. I don't want to take a sulfate. :( Besides, my seeds are working just fine. Whats the deal? Is it just that he cannot just sit idle, as a diagnose and treat myself? Is this part of the doctor's code? I didn't want to be a pest, so I didn't get into it much. I didn't directly ask him, "Why should I not take D. stamonium seed." After all, I had already decided that I probably was going to continue using my cheap seeds. The prescription is much more expensive than free seeds. Is it because of the inconsistency of natural materials versus prescribed medication? Afterall, the seeds have other actives such as atropine, scopolamine, oils, fats, etc.
 
I'd say he's either paranoid or just assuming superiority because he's the doc.

One thing I'll say though is that I find dat s. really messes with my sleeping. It's hard to get to sleep, then I keep waking up every hour or so. D. Inoxia would be much more preferable if it's less than 3 hours to bed time.
 
imPsimon said:
Ya said:
Petrol is not natural, it's not from decayed dinosaurs, it's a toxic substance from a planet which crashed into ours long ago.
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Do you have something to back that up?
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yeah i wanna know too. ive never heard this theory, and ive geard some pretty outlandish things!:)
 
Woah..I dont think they know for sure where petrol comes from origionally..

Doctors are so closedly linked to the pharma industry..personally id rather just keep taking the seeds if that works..whats the point of paying money and supporting big pharma when nature has already supplied you?
 
The whole idea that even in billions of years the earth would produce and keep "oil" at such extreme depths were it a fossilized organic is ludicrous. As stated the amount of product and the extreme depths indicate IMO a product of cometary bombardment not fossilization of plants.This still makes petroleum a "natural" substance. The key being the word natural. Unnatural implies a non-biological non-environmental mechanism of producing a product. So whether fossil diatoms from ancient oceans or byproducts of early cometary bombardment petroleum is a natural product of the planet.
As for the use of a plant medicine in western medicine, you just as well have poked him with a stick like a stubborn ass. Dr's are trained intensely that only standardized homogeneous medicines are medicines, to him you are simply abusing a weed with dangerous components not judiciously using a plant source medicine. This by the way is their #1 argument re; cannabis, a lack of standardized effects, despite that standardization would narrow it's effectiveness by orders of magnitude. Just as D.stram contains synergistic alkaloids which make it overall a superior medicine than any single isolate.
Bottom line is they have worked and are working steadily for complete control over your and my bodies. It remains up to us to decide if the physical ailments we all have are worth trading in the sovereignty of your self. For myself I have chosen to live with the host of baggage fifty yrs living in this society has caused. This means living with a lot of semi-debilitating conditions and foregoing the drugs which will form the chains to bind me in my increasing age.
I play a single game with western medicine over type 2 diabetes which showed up on the heels of an extreme chemical exposure. At this point I have it worked so the Pharm that produces it gives me 1/3 yr supply every 4months gratis and have disciplined my diet to only use about half what was originally prescribed. Other than that I have foregone western medicine almost completly. I had way to much "practicing" medicine when younger to learn to not be a practice body any more.
SB
 
This all reminds me of doctors so willing to prescribe marinol but never cannabis... the western medicine system fucking sucks..Im sorry that some people dont want to hear that or whatever, but I can only speak from my own shitty expeience with the western medical system..if you have never really NEEDED them than you just dont know..I had full health care and still had to go to "alternative" health care practicioners and pay lots of money to get any help. I do not support MOST of the efforts of mainstream medicine..because its a laughable scam.

I think the idea of petrol as a product of fossilization is hard to believe as wel..
 
I fail to see how petrol's origin has any relevance. I mean, if science can determine that it originated from some sort of oddly dispersed cosmic event then that's certainly interesting, but it doesn't change anything about petroleum products.

The standardization issue is exactly why your doc is being sketchy. Make sure you tell him that you're going to keep using the datura seeds, as well as any other herbal medications you take. Thankfully we have doctor/patient confidentiality in this country, so it's not like you can get busted for admitting you use an herbal MAOI once in awhile or smoke some weed for nausea.
 
Touche Guevara said:
I fail to see how petrol's origin has any relevance. I mean, if science can determine that it originated from some sort of oddly dispersed cosmic event then that's certainly interesting, but it doesn't change anything about petroleum products.

that is the point I was trying to make it does not matter it's origin but how it is used
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The standardization issue is exactly why your doc is being sketchy. Make sure you tell him that you're going to keep using the datura seeds, as well as any other herbal medications you take. Thankfully we have doctor/patient confidentiality in this country, so it's not like you can get busted for admitting you use an herbal MAOI once in awhile or smoke some weed for nausea.
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But your Dr can shitcan you as a patient, label you a drug seeker/abuser and make finding another Dr very difficult. I am of the thought of treating them the same as they treat you. They do not share all their information so why would I if I do not feel it relevant to the condition?
Somewhere in the equation Dr's have forgotten they are the employee of the patient and feel they are the Farmer of the herd instead.
Well I am not a herd animal nor will I ever be one.
SB
 
I'm going to semi-defend the doctor here....

Not all doctors are "corrupt" and push chemicals on you to stay in business. My doctor has been through the required training, paid for his office / equipment and whatnot. He has a record of everything about me on his computer as soon as I go there for an appointment. I would imagine all medical records, surgeries, allergies, blood type...etc.

If he told me that taking a particular plant or seed would be wrong, I would accept the fact that I might be wrong. Now where I think you may have gone wrong is not talking to him about it. If a doctor has some reason for telling me not to take a plant, I would want to know why. Just like in this thread, someone said "Do you have something to back that up?". That how I would have approached the issue.

Then again, I live in Canada where we get 80% back on most medication...So maybe I'm biased.
 
dude the canadian medical system sucks..as good as it looks..it's been fucking useless to me..I was VERY sick at one time and all I got was cluelessness from these people, treating me like I was imagining thigs becasue they were too incopetant as doctors to know what was wrong..and I saw many doctors..they all laughed at me when I told them that i was going to see a naturalpathic physician instead that wasnt covered under medicare..didnt seem that funny though how she was the only one who gave s fucking shit at all and was able to help me.

I know that people think that canada has this great medicare but we dont. i dont care what peopel have to say about this..until youve been through it you dont know a thing about it, something that most people here prob havent been through..sure I mean you break a leg, thats one thing..real sickness is another..nothing cynical about it..its just the reality of the situation.

Id rather be in Europe where at least some alternative stuff is covered under the medicare plan that you PAY INTO.

80% back?..I never got a penny back.
 
Yeah, I say ALWAYS question your doctor.

If I go for a checkup and the doc writes me a scrip and expects me to take it, he better be prepared to tell me why and how the meds will help.

I will say also that I'm not as sinical as many here appear to be and I believe a lot of doctors genuinely want to help people.
 
You CAN be put in serious pickle if admitting to doing anything illegal. From what I understand doctor-patient confidentiality is negated when the information/action of the patient is illegal. So I have NOT and most likely will never mention my daily use of cannabis and cactus extract and RC's. Even though he would be much better informed of my health, letting him know that could risk, jail, a tainted history among local doctors, etc. He also is the same doctor that my grandparents go to. :?

Consuming datura even to better one's health actually might be illegal. After all, scopolamine, atropine, and hyoscyamine all require prescriptions. In that case, I am assuming that obtaining them without a prescription would be illegal. My doctor can't prescribe that I go eat 3-10 datura seeds a day, so he wrote me a presciption. Maybe it's as simple as that, but the way he shook his head pissed me off thoroughly.:twisted: And, makes me think there is much more behind it. I didn't push the topic; I didn't want to offend my family doctor, even if I wasn't trying to.

Again, if you remember anything from this thread, remember that your doctor-patient confidentiality goes out the window, once you start asking or telling him about illegal stuff. Don't tell your doctor how many dead bodies are in your backyard, or skeletons in your closet.:shock:

I love these smileys.:p
 
When I was diagnosed with mono last spring, I spent a good time online researching herbal remedies. The cotor hadnt prescribed me anything, as my throat was not so bad as to require steroids. I took a several week regimen of coconut oil, elderberry extract, echinacea capsules, slippery elmbark lozenges and, apple cider vinegat/cayenne pepper gargles. Within 10 days I had wiped out my acute symptoms, with the exception of fatigue. I went into my doctor and told him this, after he commented on how he couldnt believe how quickly my body had beat baack the mono. Upon hearing all of these "un-scientific" remedies he told me to stop taking whatever I was taking as he couldnt counsel me on the efficacy. I asked him, "you must be joking right? I mean, did you not just comment on how awesomely I'm recovering?!?" I just shook my head an walked out...we live in strange times.

SB
 
I've never had a problem with it. I've got my fair share of medical issues that they took care of for me. I suppose it varies from hospital to hospital and doctor to doctor.

i dont care what peopel have to say about this
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Then I guess we've got nothing left to discuss.
 
LawnBoy said:
Consuming datura even to better one's health actually might be illegal. After all, scopolamine, atropine, and hyoscyamine all require prescriptions.
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I wouldn't think so. Datura seeds from some suppliers come with a toxicity warning, but it's not illegal to consume them in any country I know of.
 
Ya said:
Of course Burnt, who has admitted he is financially dependent on the petrochemical industry, will reply, "Petrol is natural!"

And I know he (and most folks, and probably even most members here) will laugh at and disagree with my next statement:

Petrol is not natural, it's not from decayed dinosaurs, it's a toxic substance from a planet which crashed into ours long ago.
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This exact same post is posted elsewhere by you.

Beware of cross-posting before you get too annoying.
 
jacetea said:
I've never had a problem with it. I've got my fair share of medical issues that they took care of for me. I suppose it varies from hospital to hospital and doctor to doctor.

i dont care what peopel have to say about this
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Then I guess we've got nothing left to discuss.
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Naw it has nothign to do with the hospital you are at..I was at various ones..changed doctors even..they couldnt seem to figure out why I woke up every day puking, had stomache cramps that made me feel like I was dying and why white blood cell count was so low or why my hormone levels were so fucked up..even though i brought them in information about my symtpoms and had basically diagnosed myself with all the info I had learned myself over a 6 month period..they told me it didnt exist..

Until one day my doctor told me I needed to get checked for prostate cancer..so She sends me to a sergeon..actaully 2 sergeons I saw at different places..both of them told me that I had something that they couldnt help me with because it looked liek something outside of "mainstream medicine"..

One of them told me straight up that he thought I had sytemic candidiasis and that that I should seek out alternative health care..but that he couldnt advise me beyond that becasue it was "outside of hii authority"..and because maintream medicine would not recognise it as even an existing illness.

Of course I did, and the first thing this lady did for me was give me full blood work..funny how I had had blood work done 2 times already at the local meical labs and all they told me was to "take more b12"..i asked for more allergy tests and all they would provide is useless skin prick tests..becasue thats all the canadian medicare covers. Of course these tests are useless and dont do a thing.

So after getting my bloodwork done with someone who gave shit, and tested at a real lab, I was called back and given a ful runthrough of everything I was sensitive or allergic to..detailed info reguarding my hormone levels..how to fix them..lists to foods to eat..lists of foods not to eat..I was put on supplements and medication to fix my drained adrenal functioning..oh and medicare paid for not a single penny of it.

Funny though how I noticed a difference within 2 weeks..compared to the 18 months of hell and ridicule I got going through the mainstream medical system. Fuck you go into these clinics and they talk to you for 15 minutes and then send you away..sorry Id rather go to someone who cares and is willing to sit down for an hour or more with me and get me real help..even if I have to pay.
 

Erowid Datura Vault : Legal Status

Information on the legal status of Datura.
www.erowid.org
New Jersey #
It appears that in New Jersey there is a public health law specifically regarding Datura stramonium which states that immediately upon notification of the existence of "wild, cultivated or hidden growth" of D. stramonium (this is the only variety named) the health department will dispatch an officer to destroy the plants. As far as we can tell, nowhere does it state that it is illegal to grow D. stramonium...only that it is the duty of the department of health to destroy it if they learn of its existence. New Jersey Statutes. 2A:170-77.8 (1997).

This is hilarious. Please someone, in New Jersey, find a jimson weed plant, call the health department, and record the whole thing on youtube. Please. I would thoroughly enjoy to see this.
 
sorry Id rather go to someone who cares and is willing to sit down for an hour or more with me and get me real help..even if I have to pay.
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So you're upset because they failed to diagnose the problem? If my doctor doesn't know what's wrong with me, he sends me to a specialist who would have a better idea based on my symptoms. Being ridiculed has nothing to do with the health care system, that's your doctor who should lose her license.

I understand your problem is more complex than the vast majority of doctor run-ins. Could you imagine having to pay for all visits you got for free? I fail to see how paying for something makes it more authentic. Unfortunately the extent of my exposure to Canadian health care ends here. I realize the "it's free" argument doesn't fly with everyone and no system is perfect. However I can tell you that without "free" health care I and my brother would be dead right now. Probably my mother as well.
 
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